Zenith movement 1927 year

roughbarked

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You might notice that a lot of Zeniths despite the size, look almost exactly the same? from 16''' up to 20.5'''
What yours doesn't have is the cam disc regulator that was on many Zeniths.
If you read the description on the first of your linked pages at bidfun;
•The official designation is 20.5'''NVI; thus it surely was produced with different plate sizes. Since the Zenith records gave no information about the actual sizes, the calibre is listed here also as 19.5'''. You'll find that Zenith did the above a lot. You'll definitely need to take accurate measurements of the movement.


 

roughbarked

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Ranfft doesn't have every watch listed. Some of the Zeniths listed there are dated 1903 of manufacture but the name Zenith wasn't official until 1911. 1865 was when Favre-Jacout started his watch company and pin set was basically gone from most Swiss watches by 1910.
 
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Maren

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But according to serial data table this watch is from 1927
Is this mean that is something replaced, or what?

I don't think that is something replaced, this watch is one of my recent found in watchmaker stock
About 20 years it was in dust.

What can be explanation for this late year for pin set movement?

WP_20210430_09_14_23_Pro.jpg
 

roughbarked

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Well it is Russian isn't it. ;)
It could be all sorts of things but probably only only to be found out by asking Zenith?

As an example, this tidbit: "Nobody’s quite sure how the calibre 135 from Swiss watchmaker Zenith ended up in Russian hands, but it led to the creation of the Volna chronometer movement. You’ll find that storied movement under the skin of this vintage watch from Russian brand Vostok. Available in multiple versions, it offers a streamlined design and steadfast precision, hence the name."
 

Maren

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It's not Russian

Mих П Петковић (cyrilic inscription on dial) is name of official importer for Zenith and some other watches

Their company purchased 2000 pin set watches for Serbian Railway company
And this can be one of this

This data about 2000 pin set watches is not yet checked
 
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eri231

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The movement provided to Serbian Railways was 20 ½ NVI until the mid 1930s. Then the movement 18.28 3 P is provided where P is the Poussette model (Button) chosen for safety, to adjust the time you had to press the button with your fingernail and turn the crown, impossible to accidentally maneuver.
Regards enrico
 
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agemo

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Hi,
In Serbian Cyrillic 'Мих. П. Петковић и Кo. Београд' (Mih. P. Petković i Ko. Beograd), is the name of the watchmaker and representative of 'Zenith' watches, between the two world wars, perhaps after the 1920s.

The movement is as noted enrico a 20 1/2 NVI, here is the caliber.

ZMVI.jpeg

Is it possible to have a picture of the back of the watch?

It should be noted that the railroads of various countries have abandoned the American calibers for Swiss calibers less bulky and less heavy.

Amicalement GG
 
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Maren

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Thank you for info, here is photo of back. There is interesting story about case of this watch
Looking at serial number of movement, it should be from 1927 - but watch case look younger than these age.

After this period, as Enrico said, it used cal 18 28 3 P - I have one of this caliber, but looking at serial number, this watch is from 1947 year,
and this watch HAVE ENGRAVINGS like older watches from 20's - SDZ (Serbian State Railway on cyrilic)

This older - does not have engravings typical for this era between two wars

WP_20210501_19_13_29_Rich.jpg WP_20210501_19_13_29_Rich.jpg WP_20210501_19_12_42_Rich.jpg

And last picture is from 18 28 3P dated in 1947 :???:
WP_20210430_18_34_54_Pro.jpg
 

eri231

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In fact, how could the pin be pressed with a fingernail or sharp object and at the same time rotate the crown? All accidentally?

DSCN3486.JPG
regards enrico
 

Maren

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If I get point correctly, PIN SET movements are used to be sure that someone don't change time by accident ?

Ok, that is half of mystery
But - how is it possible that on case where is placed movement from 1947 year be something what must be before WW 2 - engravings SDZ or JDZ

To 1929 it was SDZ (In cyrilic it was СДЖ ) and from 1929 it was JDZ (Serbian was replaced with Jugoslavian)

But all this gone with World war, or maybe I'm wrong....
 

eri231

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In fact, I also have Zenith with the JDŽ logo from 1947. But it seems that since 1941 the JDŽ has been spun off into two railway companies, Croatian State Railways (HDŽ) and Serbian State Railways (SDŽ).
regards enrico
 

eri231

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Found a answer:

"" In the early 1950s, the centrally run JDŽ was one of the last Yugoslav institutions that had not been reformed in accordance with the guidelines of workers' self-government. A reform led to the decentralization of the railway administration, which from 1953 was called Jugoslovenske Železnice (JŽ, Yugoslavian Railways). The Zajednica Jugoslovenskih Železnica (ZJŽ, Community of Yugoslav Railways) consisted of the Directorate General, based in Belgrade, the sleeping and dining cars company KSR, the Zavod za projektovanje (ZJŽ, project office, today CIP) and five railway transport company Železničko Transportno Preduzece (ZTP) in Belgrade (with management in Titograd ), Zagreb , Sarajevo , Skopje and Ljubljana . As a United Transport Company (ZŽTP), Ljubljana itself was divided into three autonomous companies called ŽTP in Maribor , Ljubljana and Postojna . In the course of the 1960s, the number of ŽTPs changed and the individual ŽTPs were given ever greater independence, so that they de facto acted as independent railway companies and some of them ordered their own locomotives. The role of the JŽ was essentially limited to preparing the timetables , setting the transport tariffs and representing the country's railways abroad. ""


regards enrico
 
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roughbarked

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If I get point correctly, PIN SET movements are used to be sure that someone don't change time by accident ?
Pin or lever set were used by many and as Dr Jon said "up until the Patek Phillipe patents ran out".
My comment related to the fact that railways may have demanded them because they could not accidentally have the hands reset.
 

Dr. Jon

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Yes railroads, at least US railroads demanded lever set. By the time they got to this stem setting was widely available.

Pin set might not be so good for railroad use because:

It leaves an opening for dirt;
The user needs a good and moderately long fingernail to use it;
The slot can be too narrow for a working man's fingernail to press it far enough.
If teh button got stuck down it added a lot of load and made the watch run badly or stop.

For accidental set prevention the US lever set system has the advantage that it is under the bezel and better sealed and can be used with short heavy fingernails. It took two operations. The lever has to returned to the winding position to close the case assuring that the setting train was positively disengaged after use.
 

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