Zenith calibre 3841 Pocket Watch (shock protection)

svenedin

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I am posting a pocket watch that I recently acquired. I searched the forum but I could not find any references to calibre 3841.

As far as I know, this is one of the last pocket watch movements that Zenith made and is 1970s in date. It has shock protection and an unusual micro-regulation system (for a pocket watch).

The movement is filthy but the watch runs and does not show any obvious faults except a reduced balance amplitude probably caused by dirt. I will strip it down for cleaning but I am hesitating because the last watch I did with an Incabloc setting was a real trial with the lyre spring. Incabloc, or any kind of shock protection, is uncommon in pocket watches so I hardly ever have to touch them. As a consequence, I am very inexperienced with shock protection but I am reading up about it both on this forum and in my reference books.

These are the before overhaul photographs. As you can see, the movement is very dirty with signs of over-oiling and dried up oil in the jewels and the case (white metal aka nickel silver) has some minor corrosion.

I like late pocket watches like this. They make very practical daily-use watches. They are more robust than the very elderly pocket watches, usually less valuable, good timekeepers, fairly straightforward to service, fairly small and unobtrusive to wear and often overlooked or skipped over by collectors. They are also usually found in good condition and little used and have very tight closing cases that keep the dust out well.

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Skutt50

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The only problem I have had with Inca is if the spring flies open and tilts back far enough to come loose......

I place a very small piece of Rodico where the hinge is. That prevents the spring from flying backwards and it is easy to open and close. Haven't had any Inca springs go missing since I started with the Rodico. Even if it feels a bit over kill today I still take the time, just not to have to source and re-fit a jumping spring.......
 

svenedin

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The only problem I have had with Inca is if the spring flies open and tilts back far enough to come loose......

I place a very small piece of Rodico where the hinge is. That prevents the spring from flying backwards and it is easy to open and close. Haven't had any Inca springs go missing since I started with the Rodico. Even if it feels a bit over kill today I still take the time, just not to have to source and re-fit a jumping spring.......

Thank you! That is exactly the problem I had last time. I unlatched the spring and it went flying. I did actually find it but I got very frustrated trying to refit it. I do not want to go through that again. I have a magnifying visor and a 12x eyeglass that I can hold with one hand and a blunted needle in the other. Hopefully that will do but if I worked on more watches a dissecting microscope would be much better.
 

Skutt50

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I also use a blunt needle for opening the KIF but my tweeezers when closing. Seems simple but works very well for me.

As for magnification I have a pair of very cheap reading glases with a steel frame. I removed one lens and inserted a loupe (with some 15-20 times mag...) in the opening. It took some fiddeling to get it right but I have used the same pair for close up work, including lathe work, for more than 10 years now.
 

svenedin

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Today I got as far as peering inquisitively at the movement under magnification, letting the power down and watching some videos about the various shock absorbing systems (including the parachute of course). I'm working up to it. I couldn't really be bothered if truth be told:emoji_laughing:. It seems every time I look at a movement they have become smaller than the last one I did......I think it's my eyes!

I thought I might be wise to at least identify the springs and the cap jewels in case I lose them (if not actually have some spares on hand) before I attempt this. I have ascertained that this movement uses a Kif 6-6 spring and 514 cap jewel (top and bottom) I think.....
 
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MrRoundel

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Avoid the lesson I learned about the differences, aside from appearance, between the Kifs and Inca shock springs. The Inca "appreciates" support at the back of the hinge area, as it fits in from the rear. The Kif does the opposite. If you do anything to push it forward into the hinge, you are actually pushing it out of the hinge. I happen to have 5 tiny Kifs on their way to me because I was unaware of this difference and put pegwood (Rodico probably would have pushed it down more than away, so it would have worked better.) behind the hinge area to keep the spring in place. That's not what it did. It pinged into the ether.

My problem situation is with a very small ladies baguette size, so it's a bit worse than yours, but you still don't want to make a simple task into a nightmare. Best of luck.
 

svenedin

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Avoid the lesson I learned about the differences, aside from appearance, between the Kifs and Inca shock springs. The Inca "appreciates" support at the back of the hinge area, as it fits in from the rear. The Kif does the opposite. If you do anything to push it forward into the hinge, you are actually pushing it out of the hinge. I happen to have 5 tiny Kifs on their way to me because I was unaware of this difference and put pegwood (Rodico probably would have pushed it down more than away, so it would have worked better.) behind the hinge area to keep the spring in place. That's not what it did. It pinged into the ether.

My problem situation is with a very small ladies baguette size, so it's a bit worse than yours, but you still don't want to make a simple task into a nightmare. Best of luck.

Absolutely. I don’t need a nightmare. I only do this for a hobby not to get stressed.
 

svenedin

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The watch is stripped down. No mishaps with the Kif. I used RB's red oiler technique. The minute had flew off and ended up in my hair though but safely retrieved. I don't think I quite appreciated just how small the chaton and endstone actually are. At the moment the chaton and endstone are stuck together but I'm hoping that they'll separate with cleaning. Quite how I am going to oil the centre of the endstone and then flip it and get it back in the setting I have no idea at the moment. I'm having feelings that I've bitten off more than I can chew at the moment but I'm having a pause now and there's all the cleaning to do first anyway. I couldn't quite work out how the balance micro regulator works but I'll study it. The screw for the micro regulation is so tiny.

I've kept the chaton/endstones separate for top/bottom. They are the same for this movement according to the reference material but I know they differ on some movements so I thought it was good practice.

Everything was very dirty on disassembly with black grease and oil. It's is no wonder the watch ran badly.

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MrRoundel

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Nicely done! Yes, those jewels are tiny. They will ping distances far above their weight-class, so be extra gentle with the tweezers. Handling them with fine brass tweezers does seem to get a better hold on them. There are also pen-sized tools that have a drop of silicone(?) on a narrow end, like a Q-tip, that works very well for picking up anti-shock jewels. It then releases them, with a little nudge from tweezers, from its hold pretty easily once you're over your target drop zone.

The way I assemble the jewels is to set the end-stone flat side up on a piece of Rodico. I give it a little press with a piece of pegwood so it gets a decent bond. I put a drop of oil on the end-stone flat. This is where I found the Rodico most necessary, as the jewels are so light that they come up with my oiler, held by the oil itself. The Rodico holds them just enough to counteract the oil's stick-to-itiveness. I then drop the hole-jewel over the end-stone and maneuver it into position with a piece of sharp pegwood or my brass tweezers. I then use the brass tweezers to pick it up once I move the movement very close to the Rodico. That way I don't have to hold onto it very long. It seems I have about a 50/50 chance of dropping it cleanly into the setting or having to pick it up again and regroup. Good luck!
 

svenedin

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Thanks for the tips MrR.

Everything ultrasonically cleaned now. I didn't feel up to reassembly today so instead I ultrasonically cleaned the case and then polished out the worst of the scratches. That doesn't take so much concentration and I hate putting a lovely clean movement back into a grotty case. As you can see, there are precautions in place. A white cotton table napkin on a large tray with a raised edge!

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svenedin

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Needs a new mainspring. I could not find the Zenith 3841 in the GR catalogue but I measured the spring and if anyone in future needs to know it is: 2.00 mm high; 0.18mm thickness; 54 cm length; 16mm barrel diameter (GR5863).
 
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svenedin

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Whilst I'm waiting for a new mainspring I'm learning about this watch and the differences between it and my much earlier pocket watches. I've learned that the micro-regulator is called a "Triovis" regulator. I'm quite excited that I will actually be able to get this watch in beat myself (I have a timing machine). My old watches that are out of beat have to stay that way because I don't have the skills to move a collet on a staff. Here there's a 2 piece regulator and easy beat setting.

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svenedin

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The 3841 was developed in 1969 and built until 1977 as a modern variant of the 17'''.
3841 denotes a 38mm movement, the 4th of its type and the type being 1 (non-chronograph, manual movement with subseconds).
Thank you RB. That is info I have not been able to find. I am getting interested in these “late” pocket watches and I have started to collect them. I now have 2x post WW2 Zenith and 2x Omega including a 960 which I will service in due course. They make excellent daily use watches.
 

svenedin

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I'm still waiting for the mainspring but this morning I cleaned the balance and the balance jewels in some essence of Renata. I held the balance spring by the stud in brass tweezers and gently lifted the coils to dry off the solvent. After it was dry I inspected the hairspring with high magnification. To my horror some of the coils were bunched together. Surely I hadn't damaged the spring. I was so careful! I calmed down and I assumed it was oil contamination so back in the dip and dry it again but the same result. Then under high magnification (the best I can do without a microscope) I noticed a tiny particle adhering to the hairspring. It had not come off in the dip so I assumed it was a tiny fleck of ferrous metal and the spring was magnetised. I de-magnetised the spring, dipped again and all is well. The spring is perfectly shaped. I am so glad that I examined carefully and noticed this as it would have had me completely baffled when the watch was assembled.
 
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svenedin

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This is turning out to be fun as usual! The mainspring arrived but when I went to fit it it would not fit. I positioned the spring in its retainer over the barrel and it was clear that it was too big and would not fit. Only by a fraction but it was not going to push in (it was the hook that was preventing it from sliding into the barrel). I double checked that the correct spring had been supplied and that my measurements were correct and they are correct. I released the new spring from it retainer and was surprised to find that it did not unwind to a double-S shape but was an ordinary spiral with a straightish tail more like the old springs but it is definitely not a carbon steel spring (it's silver and shiny). Do the modern spring only assume the S shape after they've been wound/unwound in the barrel? I've never worked on a watch modern enough to have a modern spring. So then I went to put the new spring in my winder and load it that way but the inner coil is too big to catch on the arbor of the winder (Bergeon). I tried to reshape the inner coil but have not been successful so I've put it aside for the evening. Frustrating. I am wondering whether I ordered the wrong spring.
 
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svenedin

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After a break, I managed to get the spring to catch in the hook on my winder and it is now in the barrel. I reduced the size of the inner coil by squeezing the spring with long-nosed pliers whilst the inner coil was around a balance tack. It is odd that the new spring would not go into the barrel from its packaged retaining ring as it was sold as barrel 16. My mainspring winder is also for 16 barrel and it went into the barrel without issue.
 

svenedin

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The watch is reassembled and running again. Thank you for the very helpful tips on shock springs. I bought one of those jewel picker uppers and I don't think I could have done the balance jewels without it.

This is how I did my work; on a tray with raised sides and a white table napkin underneath the work mat. I don't trust myself not to lose things!

All did not go entirely smoothly. I didn't lose any jewels and I didn't lose a shock spring. However, I did break one leg of one of the Kif springs. I must have over stressed it and it snapped. How easy is it to fit a new spring? I can get hold of a new spring without difficulty.

During disassembly, the balance spring stud screw came out. I had intended only to loosen it enough to remove the stud. It's such a small screw it was very awkward to refit. In actual fact, there was no need to remove the balance from the cock at all and I should not have bothered. I had originally though I would have to oil the cap jewels through the chatons but in fact, with the jewel picker upper I was able to do it the normal way. I had a bit of trouble getting the stud height correct so that the balance spring was not "dished" either up or down but only because the stud screw is so small and awkward. I had another moment of fear that I had damaged the balance spring (bunched up) but it had become magnetised again even though I de-magnetised all my tools before starting today. One small screwdriver hadn't been properly de-magnetised.

If I do more of this type of work I definitely need better magnification.

If anybody needs to know for future reference the shock springs for this movement are Kif 6-6

Stephen

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gmorse

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Hi Stephen,
Do the modern spring only assume the S shape after they've been wound/unwound in the barrel?

No, they don't, that S curve is set in them when they're made and they'll keep it when released from their constraint rings. I've noticed the same thing very occasionally, and I don't know whether they're just old stock.

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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Hi Stephen,


No, they don't, that S curve is set in them when they're made and they'll keep it when released from their constraint rings. I've noticed the same thing very occasionally, and I don't know whether they're just old stock.

Regards,

Graham

Thank you Graham! The new spring had a coil like an old carbon steel spring and then a long mainly straight tail with some hint of an S shape but nothing like the old broken spring from this movement.

Do you know how easy/difficult it is to fit a new Kif spring?
 

MrRoundel

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Regarding the HS stud retaining screw, I hear you on that one. That's one of those things that only happens once. When it happened to me, I had the same hassle getting the screw back in.

On the shock-spring replacement, you might want to read my post this morning regarding the Bulova 6CLC. In it I describe how I got the Kif installed without big problems. Good luck with it.
 

svenedin

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Regarding the HS stud retaining screw, I hear you on that one. That's one of those things that only happens once. When it happened to me, I had the same hassle getting the screw back in.

On the shock-spring replacement, you might want to read my post this morning regarding the Bulova 6CLC. In it I describe how I got the Kif installed without big problems. Good luck with it.

Super. I will read your post! Yes it was silly of me to over loosen the stud screw but I assumed I had not backed it off enough as the stud didn't want to move. Probably it was stuck due to the movement being filthy and previously over-oiled. I agree I will not make that mistake again! It's all good learning though. No lasting harm done.
 

gmorse

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Hi Stephen,
...I assumed I had not backed it off enough as the stud didn't want to move. Probably it was stuck due to the movement being filthy and previously over-oiled. I agree I will not make that mistake again! It's all good learning though. No lasting harm done.

A balance screw holder works well for holding any tiny screws, not just those in balances, and best if you can find one second-hand though, because they are pricy. Even screws that you think are firmly in place can work their way out in the ultrasonic.

MrR's acquaintance with KIF springs is far more intimate than mine; the watches I mostly handle were made long before any such new-fangled idea of shock protection was invented!

Regards,

Graham
 

MrRoundel

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Hi Stephen,


A balance screw holder works well for holding any tiny screws, not just those in balances, and best if you can find one second-hand though, because they are pricy. Even screws that you think are firmly in place can work their way out in the ultrasonic.

MrR's acquaintance with KIF springs is far more intimate than mine; the watches I mostly handle were made long before any such new-fangled idea of shock protection was invented!

Regards,

Graham

Hi Graham. I think I may have one of those balance screw holders. Are they the ones that look like a small pin-vise that has a split "collet" and sliding lock? If so, I'll try to remember that next time I have to deal with one of those, or other, tiny screws.

And on the Kif springs, I can only say, that you're not missing anything particularly fun. While they do get easier the more you deal with them, there are so many different designs (Kif and non-Kif) that the way to work with them can be slightly or vastly different. You, Graham, would have no issue working with them, as I know how deeply you are into quality watch-work. The key is trying hard not to break or ping them. My new/used number 5 Dumonts had no problem picking them up from my bench top. While there is more of a chance of unintended flight using tweezers over the sticky tip tool, it worked out. Cheers.
 

gmorse

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Hi MrR,
I think I may have one of those balance screw holders. Are they the ones that look like a small pin-vise that has a split "collet" and sliding lock?

Yes, they're the ones, they come in a variety of sizes.

Good tweezers will pay for themselves in the avoidance of frustration!

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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Hi Stephen,


A balance screw holder works well for holding any tiny screws, not just those in balances, and best if you can find one second-hand though, because they are pricy. Even screws that you think are firmly in place can work their way out in the ultrasonic.

MrR's acquaintance with KIF springs is far more intimate than mine; the watches I mostly handle were made long before any such new-fangled idea of shock protection was invented!

Regards,

Graham

Thank for the tip Graham. I managed to do it with the balance cock upside down on the bench (no balance attached of course) and then aligning the screw on the bench top and advancing it towards the hole. It worked but it made me sweat! I do actually have a set of 4 double ended (Swiss) pin vices. I might have been able to use the smallest one if of course I could actually mount the screw in the pin vice in the first place.

I read Mr R's account of his encounter with a Kif spring. His was a Kif Elastor, mine is an Ultraflex but they are both very similar with two spring legs and a hinge.
 

svenedin

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Hi Graham. I think I may have one of those balance screw holders. Are they the ones that look like a small pin-vise that has a split "collet" and sliding lock? If so, I'll try to remember that next time I have to deal with one of those, or other, tiny screws.

And on the Kif springs, I can only say, that you're not missing anything particularly fun. While they do get easier the more you deal with them, there are so many different designs (Kif and non-Kif) that the way to work with them can be slightly or vastly different. You, Graham, would have no issue working with them, as I know how deeply you are into quality watch-work. The key is trying hard not to break or ping them. My new/used number 5 Dumonts had no problem picking them up from my bench top. While there is more of a chance of unintended flight using tweezers over the sticky tip tool, it worked out. Cheers.

Funny you should say that because I actually ordered number 5 Dumont tweezers with the order for the Kif springs! I anticipated frustration and decided it was a good time to treat myself. I went for titanium as I already have some titanium tweezers. They're non-magnetic and I like using them.
 

svenedin

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Thank you Graham! The new spring had a coil like an old carbon steel spring and then a long mainly straight tail with some hint of an S shape but nothing like the old broken spring from this movement.

Do you know how easy/difficult it is to fit a new Kif spring?

Graham, back to the modern springs that don't assume an S shape when unwound that you have noticed occasionally. Did you have any concerns about using such a spring? As I understand it, the S shape is to even out the power delivery curve so I do wonder whether a spring that does not unwind to the proper shape would work as intended. This watch had a modern spring to start with (though it would not sit flat on the bench and was "coned") so I certainly don't want to use a "downgrade" spring. For an older watch with a carbon steel spring I consider a modern spring an upgrade. The old watches I have and collect have old springs of unknown age and one day their old springs will break which could do damage so a modern spring replacement seems sensible to me and may also improve power delivery and hence timekeeping.
 

gmorse

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Hi stephen,
back to the modern springs that don't assume an S shape when unwound that you have noticed occasionally. Did you have any concerns about using such a spring? As I understand it, the S shape is to even out the power delivery curve so I do wonder whether a spring that does not unwind to the proper shape would work as intended.

That's my understanding about the S curve, it tends to flatten the power delivery. As long as the new spring expands to an acceptable diameter once released from its constraint, I don't worry about it too much. I too prefer to replace old blue steel springs, even if their power curves aren't such a good match for the fusee profile, but an exception is if the existing spring is signed, which is pretty uncommon to find, then if it isn't in too bad a state, I clean it and put it back. Since most watches with a signed spring are likely to be quite early, their owners only run them occasionally and then often don't fully wind them.

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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I fitted a new Kif spring today. At first I didn't think there was a hope that I'd be successful but after losing one new spring the next one seated correctly at the hinge and is now closed. I was surprised how much force is required to seat the hinge.

The watch seems to run fine with an amplitude of 285 degrees on the timing machine but the train is not lubricated yet and I want to re-do one of the balance settings as the oiling was messed up by the cap jewel moving out of place during the fitting of the new spring.

Definitely the most difficult thing I’ve done yet in watchmaking. Not saying much of course as I don’t have much experience! I think there is definitely a knack to shock springs and they would become straightforward with practice.

After that test of nerves the lubrication of the train can wait until tomorrow!

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svenedin

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I decided I wasn't happy with the new mainspring that did not seem the right shape so I ordered another exactly the same and this is the difference between two new mainsprings.......

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svenedin

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All back together and running beautifully. Very little positional error on the timing machine. This watch is done! Next......
 

gmorse

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Hi Stephen,

I think you must have got a NOS spring the first time, have you returned it for a refund?

Does the timer trace still show a problem with one of the pallets as it did in your post #36?

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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Hi Stephen,

I think you must have got a NOS spring the first time, have you returned it for a refund?

Does the timer trace still show a problem with one of the pallets as it did in your post #36?

Regards,

Graham

Hello Graham. No haven't sent it back yet. It came from Cousins. Do you think they'll accept it's faulty?

Timer trace looks OK now I think? Pallets were not oiled in post #36. It was just a rough and ready check.

IMG_8571.JPG
 

gmorse

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Hi Stephen,

It's worth a try with Cousins, if you say it's not fit for purpose they should refund you.

That trace looks far better, surprising the effect lubrication can have. The lift angle on your watch is probably less than 52º, but it's only used to calculate amplitude, and there are other ways of establishing that.

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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Hi Stephen,

It's worth a try with Cousins, if you say it's not fit for purpose they should refund you.

That trace looks far better, surprising the effect lubrication can have. The lift angle on your watch is probably less than 52º, but it's only used to calculate amplitude, and there are other ways of establishing that.

Regards,

Graham

Graham you are spot on as usual. According to a list I found on the internet the lift angle of this movement is actually 40 degrees.

Here’s the finished watch.
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svenedin

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Some final adjustments. Is the amplitude acceptable at 232 degrees? That trace is dial down and the watch is fully wound. I read that 220 degrees or higher after 24 hours running from a full wind in vertical position is ideal and that less than 190 is a problem. However, I am aware that some movements do normally have lower aptitudes.

This was a fun watch to do and I am on my way to developing the knack with shock springs. I actually re-did both sets of balance jewels and did not have a problem opening and closing the springs.

I wanted to use this watch regularly, daily even, and it was really filthy with old oil and a lot of hardened grease. It certainly was not in a condition to be used.

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gmorse

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Hi Stephen,
Is the amplitude acceptable at 232 degrees? That trace is dial down if it matters.

It should be able to exceed that, it's a decent quality movement. The rates in horizontal positions, (DU and DD), should be very close to identical; what are the rates in the vertical positions? Did you have a close look at the state of the staff pivots, especially their tips? If they're at all flattened it can make quite a difference.

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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Hi Stephen,


It should be able to exceed that, it's a decent quality movement. The rates in horizontal positions, (DU and DD), should be very close to identical; what are the rates in the vertical positions? Did you have a close look at the state of the staff pivots, especially their tips? If they're at all flattened it can make quite a difference.

Regards,

Graham

There doesn't seem to be much difference at all between DU and DD but the amplitude has increased a bit to 245 in an hour or so. In the vertical positions it is 220. I think I should leave it to run 24 hours and test tomorrow as it is only just back together and I am tired. I did check the barrel for side and end shake before assembly although I admit I did not look that carefully at the balance pivots except what I could see poking through the hole before I fitted the hole jewel and endstone. I could not see any issue with the balance pivots. I also checked that the hairspring is flat and not rubbing (stud too high or low) and it seems OK. Checked hairspring in regulator pins too. There is a possibility that the spring is not the correct thickness. I could not find any reference material to the correct spring and Zenith have it is a restricted part and will not sell one. I measured and measured again but I do not have a decent micrometer (it is on my list of things to get).

The lift angle data is from one source which has the movement size incorrect so it may be wrong and too low. If significantly too low then actually the real amplitude is better......

By eye and by ear, the watch seems to be going very nicely!

One thing I will do is de-magnetise just in case.
 
Last edited:

svenedin

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After a 12 hour run I checked again on the timing machine (half unwound). This is what I get and I am calling it done. Of course if the 40 degree lift angle figure I found is actually much too low the real amplitude is considerably higher. I am not going to fiddle as I am happy with this.

Dial Up

IMG_8576.jpeg


Crown up (vertical)

IMG_8577.jpeg
 

svenedin

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Last edited:

agemo

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Apr 5, 2011
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Thank you Agemo that is very informative! What does it mean "without the racket"? Is it the characteristic Zenith regulator that looks a bit like a tennis racket?
Yes, it is the characteristic racket of Zenith, your watch is one of those to collect, all my congratulations!!!

Amicalement GG
 

svenedin

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I think I spoke too soon about this watch. It has been running continuously for 5 days and I have been using it. It was keeping good time. In the middle of the night it stopped whilst it was sitting on a table. This morning I discovered it stopped and it would not re-start even with a gentle shake.

I though initially that perhaps a hand was catching but this is not the problem. I found that the balance was for want of a better term, jammed. It would not rotate with a little shake or a puff of air. I removed the balance, looked at it, could find nothing wrong and put it back in the watch. The watch took off and is still running apparently fine.

I cannot really work out what went wrong. I think the most likely explanation is that I did not tighten down the balance cock screw, it worked loose and the balance came out of a pivot. I am nervous of damaging a pivot and very careful to ensure they are in place before final tightening so perhaps I just forgot. We will see!

At the moment the movement is in a plastic box running on my desk but I must do some of my actual job now!
 

gmorse

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Hi Stephen,

It sounds as though it was 're-banked', (aka 'over-banked'), which can happen if the safety dart doesn't engage with the safety roller properly for some reason, and the impulse jewel ends up on the outside of the fork. When you replaced the balance you clearly did it properly and ensured that the jewel was in the fork, so off it went.

Regards,

Graham
 

svenedin

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Jan 28, 2010
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Hi Stephen,

It sounds as though it was 're-banked', (aka 'over-banked'), which can happen if the safety dart doesn't engage with the safety roller properly for some reason, and the impulse jewel ends up on the outside of the fork. When you replaced the balance you clearly did it properly and ensured that the jewel was in the fork, so off it went.

Regards,

Graham

Thank you Graham. What I can say is that when I first put the watch back together it was very out of beat which may have had something to do with it. Surprised though that it ran 5 days in normal use without issue.

Since I've had the balance out just now should I re-clean the balance jewels and re-oil the endstones? I am reluctant to do this as it involves the dreaded Kif springs! :emoji_laughing:
 
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