Your most significant additions in 2010

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Dr. Jon, Jan 3, 2011.

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  1. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    #1 Dr. Jon, Jan 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
    This has been a grat thread on the American Watch forum and it has also had some European and English watches so I thought it might be fun to do the most significant additions to your English or European holdings. I suggest we limit this to the to three and ask that you state why you regard your selection as most significant.

    Mine is a Jacques and Marcus ladies watch. I bought it in Ebay and as I shall show it had features that amazed me.

    Its a hunter about a 6 size.

    The first four pictures show a very high grade watch, center jewel in gold chaton and cap over escape wheel which has a recessed hub. This level of extra quality is rare in general and more so in very small watches but the story got better when I checked the lever for a detachable safety finger.


    The lever is unlike any I have ever seen before in watches or in books. The impulse pin is really a impulse bar and it radial from the center rather than along the balance staff axis.

    From what I have found by reading and analysis it is a very efficient form of lever, very well suited to a small watch.

    I wonder whether the owner had any idea how rare and unusual this watch is. It is over and away the most interesting technical watch of 2010 and one of the most unusual I own. 63490.jpg 80360.jpg 80361.jpg 80362.jpg 80363.jpg 80364.jpg
     
  2. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
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    Am I allowed to join in this one too, having already taken part in the American one ? :rolleyes:

    First, that's a beutiful watch, DrJ, and I love the technical explanation even if I don't properly follow it all!

    I'm going to choose my watch on the basis that it's the most accurate movement I have in my collection, having been grade "EG" (exceptionally good) in a Kew Observatory test in 1902. It is the third Kew "A" Certificate holder that I have, but it's comfortably the highest mark of the three. This watch was submitted three times in June, July and December before it sicceeded in getting its Certificate, which indicates how important the maker thought it to be!

    Ironically, I bought this at auction in New York, but the good new was that they obviously didn't know what a Kew "A" was over there ;)

    So here is my free sprung going barrel double roller Wales and McCulloch Kew "A", with those characteristic (and I think unique) Wales and McCulloch "Maltese Cross" hands. 80374.jpg 80375.jpg
     
  3. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    #3 Dr. Jon, Jan 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
    Great Watch!! and welcome here too. I love freesprung Enlish levers and that raisied mainspring barrel is nice too. I alos admire the timing nuts on the balance. Note these are screws put in from the inside of the balance and the outer part is a nut. this provides a very fine screw adjustment for rates. I see also that it has a winged balance. Those are the small things on the arm near the balance rim. Its hard to see them and i think a closer view from directly above will show them. Lovely watch. It would certainly be a significant addition to my collection.

    Kew A certificate watches are rare but freesprung ones with raised mainspring barrels are very rare.

    I estimate with a score of 80 it would stay within better than 15 seconds per year or about the warranted limit on temperature compensated quartz.
     
  4. Ethan Lipsig

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    I did not buy anything technogically significant in 2010 or, if I did, its importance was lost on me. I've already listed my significant 2010 acquisitions on the corresponding message thread in the American PW forum, but I did not give details or photos about all my acquisitions, including these three:
    • An 18k two-tone E.E.R.-cased V&C with a great dial.
    • An 18k C.H. Meylan Ruff PL.
    • An 18k/enamel Cressarrow-cased IWC Cal.77.
    80404.jpg 80405.jpg 80406.jpg 80407.jpg 80408.jpg 80409.jpg 80410.jpg 80411.jpg 80412.jpg 80413.jpg
     
  5. Audemars

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    Ladies pocket watch no 1708067 by the successor company Louis Audemars & Cie.

    - Nothing remotely important by the standards of this site, but I got it for my daughter for £210.00 on e-bay
    – and it was made by my Great-grandfather……………..

    Paul 80428.jpg 80429.jpg 80430.jpg
     
  6. AbslomRob

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    I don't have anything too exciting, but my favorite watch purchased this year is this T. Eatons 15j. The movement itself was made by Gallett (Swiss) for the Eatons company (a major Canadian catalog retailer), and this has a couple of very nice technical features that suggest that the higher-jeweled versions of these movements could have been used as railway watches in Canada. The most interesting feature is a screw on the barrel bridge that can be tightened down to disable the stem-set operations. Once tightened, the watch can no longer be set by pulling the crown out. 80484.jpg 80485.jpg 80486.jpg
     
  7. artbissell

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    Ethan; maybe this year you will solve the Dietrich Gruen movement source question for me with an identical example from Meylan. So far guessing Meylan. Just bought a D. Gruen. will be worked on and may find out. You show the Vacheron that has the same dial except for color you have on a Pentagon Gruen. Who is E.E.R.? I have same and now know it was not Gruen made. Very nice to see your good stuff, but also educational.
     
  8. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    I do not know who EER is or was but I have seen a lot their cases holding Vacheron and Constantin watches.
     
  9. DaveyG

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    Like AbsolomRob nothing too fancy from me either - but I have managed, after a very patient wait, to get my hands on a good quality 1820 fusee with a Massy 5 escapement marked as being made by Gregory of Basingstoke. Its a 15 jewel movement, which is a very good count for an early 19thC English watch and in reasonable condition too. It has an unusual 4 arm brass balance with 4 screwed weights and a regulator on the balance cock rather than the Bosely style. I have it re-assembled and running on my bench right now and it works well. Although the fusee arbor top pivot is quite bad and the staff top pivot is bent I have left these faults as the staff seemed to be original and the fusee problem would have entailed a lot of work and meant the removal of original material.

    Pictures were taken prior to dismantling. 80506.jpg 80508.jpg 80509.jpg 80511.jpg
     
  10. Dexx

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    Davey, that's a nice looking watch. I like the unusual balance and nicely done balance-cock. Good find.
     
  11. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Would you please let us know what size your Gallet watch is?
     
  12. artbissell

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  13. John Pavlik

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    #13 John Pavlik, Jan 5, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
    Art, the Massey refers to A lever escapement that is activated by differing styles of roller jewel . .The only indication would be to remove the balance and look at the roller table and jewel.. Massey I had a solid steel arrangement, with others having a jewel.. if you know what you are looking for the roller can be viewed between the plates.. Your pictured watch appears a bit newer than 1820.. Is the case hallmarked that year?
     
  14. Ethan Lipsig

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    Jon, I understand "E.E.R." to be Edmond E. Roberts, V&C's US agent from 1894-1937.

    Art, I collect C.H. Meylan (I have about three dozen), but I do not recall any being identical to any Dietrich Gruen you have posted. Please post any D.G.'s you think might be C.H. Meylans, and I will see if they match any of my examples.
     
  15. artbissell

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    #15 artbissell, Jan 5, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
    John P.: You are right 1837. Looks nicer and more modern (superficially) than an 1857 Waltham. I notice 15 tooth wheels in others. Is 30 an advantage?
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Ethan: I notice differences in plate form in D. Gruens depending on age and model, but all have Locle mvnt. maker's appearance. Appreciate your offer to compare. I will hold off more questions from this thread. Thank you.
     
  16. AbslomRob

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    Hi Kent. It's a 16s watch, in its original Canadian made swing-out case.
     
  17. tick talk

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    #17 tick talk, Jan 6, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
    Dr. J, you missed my reply to an earlier thread. EER stood for Edmond E. Robert, who were the Vacheron & Constantin agents in the US from 1894 to 1937. They were based in New York. In 1937, EER sold the business to Longines-Wittnauer, which is a whole other story!

    While not horologically significant, I'm most excited about a historically significant V&C I picked up in 2010; a time-only WWI Corps of Engineers silver-cased pocket watch. Better known for the chronograph version, of which nearly 3,300 were delivered to the American Expeditionary Force by 1920. Far fewer time-only V&C models were produced as Zenith and Ulysse Nardin were the main suppliers for these types. This one has a very nice dial and makes a pleasant companion to the larger chronograph. 80571.jpg 80572.jpg
     
  18. DaveyG

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    Hi Art, Re your Post #12. Nice watch. I just love those huge 'Liverpool Window' crystal jewels. What are the hallmark dates? I would guess 1840/50. The word 'Patent' on the cock foot would lead me to believe that your watch does have a Massey escapement but, as John says, the only way to tell which type is to look. The Massey 3 has a roller table that is formed like a figure eight with the impulse pin mounted on the small hoop whilst the Type 5 has a circular roller table, just like a modern lever but without the safety crescent. The crescent is cut into lower part of the table, something like a modern double roller. The safety action on the Massey escapement is performed by the horns of the lever fork, there is no safety dart. With those big Liverpool Windows to illuminate the movement you may well be able to see what type you have. Be a bit wary though, it was not uncommon for escapements to be modified to standard table roller during their lifetimes. Try searching this forum, I'm sure there are threads with pictures.

    I believe thirty tooth escape wheels to be uncommon on Massey escapements, more regularly seen on rack levers.
     
  19. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    As I wrote that about EER I had a vague recollection about EER. Thanks for your patience in reminding us. Lovely watch too.

    I'd love to know more about the sale of the V&C business to Longines Wittnauer. I do know that Wittnauer had represented Agassiz and Audemars Piguet.
     
  20. Kent

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    Thanks!
     
  21. artbissell

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    DaveyG: Very nice of you to do the detailed explanation about the Massey lever. Much appreciated. You are right about silver case marked for 1837. This question should have been a separate thread but no need for it now.
     
  22. Audemars

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    E E Robert:

    Eugene Robert & Co and Wittnauer represented L Audemars up to the collapse in 1885 and I bet that second "E" stands for Eugene.
    Both appear in the lists of purchasers.

    The LA US warehouse, managed by Robert & Co, was destroyed by fire in about 1880 but a lot of the movements were salvaged and re-sold to Russia and to other watchmakers in the area around Le Brassus - which is supposed to have resulted in unsigned "Audemars-style" stuff coming out at around that time and later.

    P
     
  23. Dexx

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    My most significant 2010 purchase is this clockwatch. It is significant in several respects. I have an alarm watch and a repeater from this period and wanted a clockwatch to examine and have as an example. This particular clockwatch, which came up at auction just before Christmas, really filled the bill and much more! It is quite exquisite inside and out and of the highest quality for its time. Both the outer and inner cases have seven-joint hinges, the finishing of parts is very fine, and the wheel work is also very fine. The auction catalogue describes the dial as a replacment, but I would describe it as a replacement original rather than simply as a replacement since it was clearly made for this watch. I'm not sure about the hands - they may be replacements although they are of the correct style. The cases are by William Jaques, who also made cases for Tompion and Quare. Nearly identical outer cases by Quare and Tompion can be seen in David Thompson, The History of Watches, pages 56-57, and in T.P. Camerer Cuss, The Camerer Cuss Book of Antique Watches, pages 104-105). The watch is also of historical significance since it is the earliest known clearly datable watch signed by Thomas Windmills (see J.A. Neale, Joseph and Thomas Windmills: Clock and Watch Makers 1671-1737, page 114).

    The watch came along at the right time, as I'm nearly 50, and so I was able to persuade my signficant other that this would be a nice Christmas and birthday present combined :Party: 80636.jpg 80637.jpg 80638.jpg 80639.jpg 80640.jpg 80641.jpg 80642.jpg 80643.jpg
     
  24. dshumans

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    My favorite addition is this mid 18th century pair case repeater by Paul Lenh in Friedberg, Germany. It is an unusual "half-quarter" repeater, which chimes like a quarter repeater, but adds an extra "ding" on the bell if it's in the second half of any quarter. A wise collector once said "You could look through a 5 gallon bucket of repeaters and not find one half-quarter repeater." The pair case is horn or tortoise shell and silver.

    Incredibly, it keeps excellent time, within seconds per day (at 70 degrees on my desk anyhow). The repeater was not working when I got it and a jeweler friend helped me by micro laser welding extra metal onto an incorrect gathering rack so I could file it back down to where it would work correctly. That and a lot of adjusting of springs has it chiming perfectly now.

    I wish I could afford a laser welder!

    Doug 80709.jpg 80710.jpg 80711.jpg
     
  25. DaveC

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    #25 DaveC, Jan 9, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
    There are some interesting watches here.

    This one is significant to me as I always wanted a one-handed type watch. This is a single hand alarum (I guess that is how they spell "alarm" for these old watches?) verge. This one has only one hand for time, the other is a hand for the alarum. I did take the dial off to make sure it was just not a two hander that someone just removed the other hand, it is legit. I suspect the dial may be a replacement though.

    It looks similar to the one Dexx posted in the style of engraving, I wonder if the case makers were the same or maybe it is just the period? Notice the leaf band on the inner pair case back and the engraving around the bell screw hole. That looks almost the same. Then there is a small picture on the inner case at 6 o'clock, The clockwatch has a face, mine a picture of a building (castle or church?). It seems the style is rather similar.

    I think on Dexx's clockwatch the dial probably was champleve. I heard that there was a "fad" back then when many of the champleve dials were replaced with porcelain as they were easier to read. 80964.jpg 80965.jpg 80970.jpg 80972.jpg 80976.jpg 80977.jpg
     
  26. Dexx

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    Nice watch Dave. I think that the style of case piercing was dictated by published templates or patterns that the piercers and engravers followed. This is why cases made by different case workers look quite similar. Doug's watch is also very interesting. I have not seen a half-quarter repeater before. I believe there is an article in the latest issue of Antiquarian Horology, where Sebastian Whitestone argues convinvingly that the Friedbergians invented minute-repeater in the early 1700s, about fifty years before Ellicott and Mudge.
     

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