YOU ALL HOOKED ME :) A JEROMEs & DARROW with wood gears is my new find.

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by BDARD, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. BDARD

    BDARD Registered User

    Jul 11, 2009
    12
    0
    0
    Kansas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Since I found the Cummens clock you have all hooked me. I think I have a new hobby :D. I just have to find a clock that I can afford to restore so tonight I went back to our local auction and this is my newest find.

    I was wondering how original it is and around what year it was made? The glass in the bottom does not seem right as far as the quality of the artwork compared to the rest of the clock.

    What do I need to look for and think about when it comes to restoring this one? I really like this style more than the Banjo clock and for some reason the wood gears really appeal to me.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tom427cid

    tom427cid Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2009
    1,572
    67
    48
    Cabinetmaker,clock repair
    Moultonborough,NH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi,
    Great find! I have been looking for a movement for years-needless to say they are not easy to find.Over thirty years ago a gentleman in CT gave me a case-it was my first clock. I can tell you that the stencil on the plinth blocks is correct-the two cases that I have both have stenciled columns-I'm not sure of the stencil on the splat-might have been redone. BTW the label is really nice. The glass probably has been replaced-generally they had mirrors. Look closely to see whether the glass was originally glazed-and wavy.If it is then there is a good chance it might be original. I have been told that that clock had what is refered to as a thin movement,and were not produced very long.


    Jerome and Darrow 001.jpg
    It's my TV clock(has a bat movement-I know shame on me!)
    tom
     
  3. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,110
    122
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    We would have to see pictures to confirm but from the configuration of the winding arbors in relation to the hour and minuet pipes this would be a called a "groaner". I don't have any reference books on Jerome & Darrow. Someone here on the message board probably look them up for you and provide more information. Groaners were made from the early 1830's to around 1840. They were called groaners due to the noise the strike gears made when it struck the hour. The groaners that I have seen usually had a mirror as a lower glass held in place with a very thin sheet of wood across the back and wood strips nailed around the edges. Nice clock. Doesn't look like you need to do much more than clean it up and get it running.
     
  4. Andy Dervan

    Andy Dervan Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    2,267
    9
    38
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hello,

    Jerome & Darrow were only in business for two years: 1824 - 1826 so that was when your clock was made.

    These clocks typically contained mirrors that have often been replaced over the years - breakage and deterioration. Mirrors were a big selling point for the lady of the house.

    Groaner movements were much less popular than the standard Terry 5 arbor wood movement for the wood movement clocks produced through end of 1830's.

    Andy Dervan
     
  5. tom427cid

    tom427cid Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2009
    1,572
    67
    48
    Cabinetmaker,clock repair
    Moultonborough,NH
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi,
    FYI,The spacing on the winding holes is different than a groaner.Jerome and Darrow is 4 7/8"---groaner is 4 1/2". And yes they are both on a horizontal plane.
    tom
     
  6. BDARD

    BDARD Registered User

    Jul 11, 2009
    12
    0
    0
    Kansas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here are some pictures of the movement. There are a couple teeth missing. I read some of other posts about teeth replacement. Is that something best left up to a professional restorer?

    I like how they took the time to put the circle design on the gears. Is that something just for looks or did it have a function? The reason I ask is because one gear has the design on the back, it would never be seen unless the movement is out.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2005
    810
    54
    28
    Geologist, US Army Corps of Engineers
    Omaha, NE
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    BDARD,
    If you never find another clock at auction, you should still consider yourself lucky! Your Jeromes & Darrow thin movement clock is a rare find. Yours appears to be in very good condition, aside from the damaged teeth you mention and the replaced tablet. Although the stenciling is a bit worn and faded, I would leave it alone. As tom427cid indicated, the clock probably would have had a mirror. There's a technique to replace teeth using epoxy, which I have used with success on a number of clocks. It's not for purists, though. If you intend on replacing the teeth with wood, I'd recommend leaving it in the hands of the professionals. As far as the rings on the wheels go, I believe those are purely decorative.

    Jeromes & Darrow were in business from 1828-33. Your clock dates to approximately 1828. The movements were in production for roughly one year. You can view the one in my collection at http://home.earthlink.net/~mmbailey39/id9.html. I don't show the label because, unlike yours, mine only has fragments preserved.

    Best of luck putting it back in running order.
     
  8. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,447
    172
    63
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Bdard nice find and even better when you find something rare.it will need some work but will be a really nice clock to have in your home after.
     
  9. Troy Livingston

    Troy Livingston Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Aug 28, 2006
    152
    7
    18
    Aerospace Stress Engineer
    Melrose, FL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    A scarce and interesting clock. Your weights are not correct. If they are like the ones that came with my "complete and original" clock you will find they don't fit between the case back and dial. I have since purchased a number of weights and a basket case clock in an ongoing attempt to get the correct ones. There is a photo of this clock with weights in Bulletin #35 p. 213. Scaling off the photo and based on case geometry I come up with:
    The weights should be either square or rectangular in cross section. One small about 1 3/8" square or 1 3/8" x 2" the other larger about 2" in square or 2" x 2 3/4". Both about 3 1/2" to 4" long. On the time side you are limited by the distance between the dial and the case back as well as the side of the case and the movement. The strike side pulley is closer to the side of the case so a narrower weight is needed here.

    My clock:
    IMG_4920.JPG IMG_4912.jpg IMG_4913.jpg


    There seem to be two variants of this movement (that I have seen). One where the bridge that supports the large wheel in the center is mounted in circular depressions in the front plate, the other without.

    Movement and dial from the basket case:
    IMG_4914.jpg IMG_4916.jpg

    Once you decide where to keep the clock I would recommend attaching the case to the wall. They aren't very stable when you open the door.

    Tooth replacement isn't that difficult, you will want to use some cherry. I don't care much for the epoxy method although I admit to being in the minority on that count. In my opinion, this is the least objectionable of all the inappropriate repair techniques found on wood works clocks. Before you start repairing teeth I would carefully check the case, if you are fortunate, the broken fragments are still there. Reattaching these bits is easy and will make for a nearly invisible repair.
     
  10. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    20,961
    658
    113
    Male
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
    Country Flag:
    #10 Steven Thornberry, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
    If you decide to replace the bottom glass with a mirror, bide your time and see if you can find an old mirror to cut to size. An old clock like this deserves to have an old mirror. Nice find and welcome to the hobby (obsession:D).
     
  11. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    4,652
    548
    113
    Country Flag:
    #11 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
    What a wonderful scarce clock you have acquired! Congratulations!

    Just to recap a bit, you have a Jeromes' and Darrow "thin movement" 30 hour time and strike wooden works housed in a split stencilled column and splat clock.

    A good source of information on this type of clock and MUST HAVE for your library is a publication Rags to Riches to Rags:The Story of Chauncey Jerome by Chris Bailey. It is actually Supplement #15 of the NAWCC and it shows up on peebay periodically. See pages 20-1 of said publication for pictures of case and movement.

    If I remember correctly, this movement was developed by Chauncey's clock maker brother, Noble, in an attempt to circumvent existing patents.

    This clock UNDOUBTEDLY, at least in my mind, had a mirror in the door. These were amongst the original clocks to which Jerome referred to as "bronzed looking glass clock". The "bronzed" refers to the stencilling on the splat and 1/2 round columns applied to the door. The case design is of the earlier type, with the 1/2 columns applied to the door sash which forms the front of the clock with the squatter chimneys and splat.

    Even without removing the dial, one should suspect something wonderful at a quick glance. Though the position of the winding arbours suggests "groaner", having the bell mounted INSIDE the case rather than on top behind the splat tells you pretty quickly this is not a standard groaner movement.

    Your clock has some hurts which reflect its age and history. It's a really collectable clock and is worth conserving correctly. Please oh please don't rush in to strip, refinish, repaint, replace. It's like the time marked face of a beloved friend.

    I frankly would replace the lower glass with an OLD piece of mirror plate. The old mirror was wavy, thinner, has a darker reflection....and just leave the rest alone!! But, read on.

    Hard to tell definativley from pics, but splat decoration doesn't look right. You may have more decoration on those 1/2 columns than you realize under a darkened finish. Carefully examine with a bright light. Be super careful if you decide clean them, that stencilling is microns thick and you can lose it quickly. Karen Larsen does very good restoration. Even gets the little fly specks in.

    What I'm about to say is blasphemy and coming from someone who adores wooden works clocks: they are a bear to restore and maintain in good running condition, so I rarely bother. I'm just not sure they're worth the effort to get running. However, there are folks who can help with gear repair or cuttiing new ones (Jim, are you still doing that?).

    And yes, bolt that sucker to the wall. When the weights are wound up to the top and you open that door, the clock will surely "faint" and if you're lucky, you forehead will break its fall. In fact, one version of the mythos surrounding this type of clock is the swooning tendency contributed to it's shortlived production.

    Enjoy your clock. You dun good.

    RM

    PS: yes, the weights are incorrect. If I remember correctly, should have little square ones.
     
  12. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,447
    172
    63
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I would recommend putting it on a shelf and secure, tie a wire to a anchor in the wall to help keep clock upright and safe. So it can,t tip and fall.
     
  13. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jun 14, 2008
    2,499
    387
    83
    Male
    Magnolia, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Bob, not certain if you are refering to me or not regarding the gear cutting.... if so, I no longer do wooden works restoration (long story why not). I do still do restoration work as well as wheel and pinion cutting for period brass works, just not wood. In regards to this movement my recommendation would be to "let in" the required teeth properly using cherry. Personally speaking I would avoid epoxy repairs like the plague. I would not attempt to make this movement a "running clock". My experience with these, and they are rare enough that I have only repaired a few of them, is the wheel stock was thin originally, perhaps not well seasoned originally, so the wheels tend to be more oblong than many WW wheels, and of a more fragile construction than more common WW's. I would recommend completing the repair teeth to make the clock run-able, but just leave it alone from that point. I think attempting to keep this clock running will result in further damage to it, or whole wheel replacements, which I would not recommend.

    By the way, as others have suggested, this is a very nice "find". And as Bob suggests this would be the "bronze looking glass" clock and does need a mirror....
     
  14. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    4,652
    548
    113
    Country Flag:
    #14 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
    Hi,

    Yes, didn't know if you were still doing ww gear cutting/repair as in "the old days". Hope you don't mind I mentioned your name.

    RM
     
  15. BDARD

    BDARD Registered User

    Jul 11, 2009
    12
    0
    0
    Kansas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well the clock is still in the exact same condition as when I found it. I have contacted a couple people in may area about restoring it and I am not getting anywhere. I was wondering if anyone knows of anybody in the Topeka KS area that could tackle this? The only real response I could get was that it was not going to be cheap if I found some to restore it, but that it would be worth it. the few I talked to offered to restore the case but would not tackle the movement.

    On I side note I looked in the bottom for pieces of the gear like Mr. Livingston said to do in his post. There were not any there so I dug the box out that the auction had dumped the weights and stuff in, sure enough I did find a small piece of the gear in the bottom and saved it. Thanks for the advice.

    Check out the link below. it is a link to the auction I attend. They seem to get a lot of older clocks. The ones in this link are already sold. I did not attend the auction because they would have been to tempting and I did not have the money so I don't know what they sold for. From my experience at the auction I am sure none brought much more than $100. Just thought it would be interesting to show what they get out here in small town US.

    http://www.rjsauctionservice.com/0220_antique_collectible.htm

    Any advice on a restorer in my area would be appreciated.
     
  16. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jun 14, 2008
    2,499
    387
    83
    Male
    Magnolia, TX
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The only person who I would recommend for repair of this movement would be Don Bruno, do a google search for his website. While there are others who could do it, he is the only party I know who specializes in ww repairs. Both he and his father have been doing this work for many years, and in my experience, doing it very well.....and he is in CT, you will not find a local person to do this work properly in your area of the world...

    just my opinion, your milage may vary....
     
  17. BDARD

    BDARD Registered User

    Jul 11, 2009
    12
    0
    0
    Kansas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sorry to bring up an old post but I figured this would be the best way to get everyone that helped me out. Unfortunately after a year and half or so of reading and contacting local people, I decided I don't have the funds to fix this clock the way it should be done so it will be finding a new home pretty soon.

    I just wanted to thank you all for the information that everyone gave me on my clocks. Your site is awesome, I could sit and read for hours about others clocks and it is just as interesting as the my own.

    I'm still hooked. I can't go to any auction, antique or junk store without looking at every clock.... Just wanted to thank you all for being so helpful.

    BDARD
     
  18. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2005
    810
    54
    28
    Geologist, US Army Corps of Engineers
    Omaha, NE
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    BDARD,
    I saw your listing on an auction site which will remain nameless. I'm curious what fixes you wanted done that have proven to be so expensive. You mentioned that the movement was missing some teeth. The case and dial show some wear, but, all things considered, they aren't too bad and could easily be left the way they are. The tablet is not original, but an old mirror would have provided an appropriate substitute. It sounds as though you spent a fair amount of time looking into restoration. I'm sorry to hear that it wasn't productive. Many of us probably spend too much time restoring clocks, when we should just let them display their battle wounds proudly. Without question, the clock is a rare representative of a fascinating period in American clock production. Best of luck on your auction and in your future collecting pursuits.
    Mike
     

Share This Page