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Yet Another M. J. Tobias Liverpool Pocketwatch


New User
Jun 26, 2012
Hello, I am new to the Forum and I have spent the last hour or so reading several intriguing older threads regarding MJ vs MI Tobias pocketwatches.

Recently, through my grandfathers estate I have acquired one and I would appreciate any information you may be able to give me. Questions I have are is this an authentic watch or a swiss fake. If its a fake does it have any value and why. What approximate date would you place on this watch. What meaning do the etchings have if any. Is there anywhere oAlso, could you refer me to any reputable watch repair/cleaning in the Dallas, TX area that would be familiar with these older pocketwatches.

My description:

On one side of the case is an etching of two sail boats in the foreground and possibly a fort with two light houses in the background all circumscribed with scroll like waves.

The other side of the case has an etching of a mounted (aparent) military figure with sword and to the left a soldier standing in attention holding a flag that appears to have stripes.

The watch face says: M. J. Tobias Liverpool

The back of the watch says: The Army's Regulator ; M. J. Tobias ; Liverpool ; patent lever ; full jewelled

On the inside of the back there is a hallmark, it is the letters "PL" within a rhombus followed by what must be a serial number 44274.

Any information you have will be greatly appreciated

Thank you,

David iPhone pics 062612 026.jpg iPhone pics 062612 027.jpg iPhone pics 062612 030.jpg iPhone pics 062612b 001.jpg iPhone pics 062612 028.jpg


New User
Jun 26, 2012
I was very hopeful when I found this site. Right now though, I can't help but feel ignored. I though for sure someone would come through with simple information on this watch and help dating it. After all, this forum is intended to share knowledge. I can only assume my watch is not fancy enough and boring to elicit any substantial help. I even spent time reading old threads so as to avoid any reprimands from members. I would still welcome any information available. Or even just a kind acknowledgement and welcome to the forum. Thank you very kindly.

Jerry Treiman

NAWCC Member
Golden Circle
Aug 25, 2000
Los Angeles, CA
Sorry. It is easy for threads to sink down the page and get lost. Your watch is an example of one of the many fakes that were produced in Switzerland, attempting to profit on the respected Tobias name. Just because they are labeled with the "fake" label does not mean that they are not interesting. The engravings on your watch may have some history to them, but I am not familiar with it. We do not discuss values on this forum, but because your watch not a genuine Tobias and is so heavily worn it would not have as much value to someone else as it would to your family as an heirloom. If it were not so heavily used it might have more value.

Perhaps someone else can suggest a watchmaker in your area who could tell you what it needs for restoration, but you may find it worthwhile to just treasure this as a non-working artifact from your family history.


Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
La Crosse, Wisconsin's West Coast
Perhaps it's less a matter of ignoring your post than
uncertainty about what to say. Your watch is Swiss,
marked for an English-speaking market (S/F) and
clearly "MJ", not "MI"

The skeletonized plate is unusual, but (in my opinion) the
general condition of the components is a bit discouraging.
Most others of these seem to have bar movements.

But welcome to the message board, and maybe someone
can fill in some other details. I can say I've seen pictures
of MJ Tobias watches, both real and fake, decorated with
an American motif -- perhaps the engraving has an American
Civil War focus?


New User
Jun 26, 2012
Thank you very much Jerry and especially Lloyd for your time and insight. Your assistance is very much appreciated.
I would very much like to repair the watch. Hopefully someone will know of a reputable horologist in the Dallas metropolitan area.

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