Yard sale find today 1866 Waltham

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Dano4734, Jul 12, 2019.

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  1. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    driving to visit my buddy today and went through some back woods. I found this 1866 all original Waltham....25 bucks and it runs . Does anyone know who the casemaker may be. Looks like FM

    E4187C1C-D473-44D8-9992-96BC5D0F18CC.jpeg 9B1B403A-65F2-4050-8FF0-A94BA07BE913.jpeg 6F1CB1C5-13F0-4C35-B1BA-6BDEAB97B0B9.jpeg FF487DFC-A4ED-49B6-BA91-D5AA7EF9300D.jpeg
     
  2. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Nice yard sale find.

    Rob
     
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  3. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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  4. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Ahh I think it’s JM. Moran made cases starting from 1850

    1F294B1C-1579-44D0-B533-CEFA292B04CA.jpeg
     
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  5. PapaLouies

    PapaLouies Registered User
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    An 11J, P.S. Bartlett made Aug. 1866.
    Regards, PL
     
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  6. John Cote

    John Cote Director
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    How cool to find a nice original mod-1857 Wally at a yard sale for a song. The stories it could tell...?!
     
  7. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    For sure John. I told them it’s a great watch and worth more but they said take it for 25. I feel good about it for trying
     
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  8. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Dano is correct on case. Dial is original. Nice snag!!

    241xxx 11J, 1866 engine turned case.

    Keith R...

    100_6134 (800x600).jpg
     
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  9. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    Nice find Dano! She's a beauty!
    I love that signature on the dial, I know it's just arched but it's one of my favorites.
     
  10. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    My favorite also my brother. Love the arch dials
     
  11. Joseph Short

    Joseph Short Registered User
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    Is that a hidden key case?
     
  12. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    No it’s not:)
     
  13. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    Beautiful watch Keith wow
     
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  14. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User
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    I'll have to post photos of my $20 115xxx PSB from the 2018 National in a few :)
     
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  15. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    #15 D.th.munroe, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    Nice find Dano,
    I do have a question, wouldn't that be a 15 jewel? if that's an 11 jewel did they not jewel the bottom train holes?
    Dan
     
  16. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User
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    This run of PSB's is not 15j!
     
  17. Tim Fitzgerald

    Tim Fitzgerald Registered User
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    Great find, Congratulations
     
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  18. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    So there is no jewels under the dial?
    Just seems odd to me to put 4 jewels on one plate and none on the other.
     
  19. 8x57mauser

    8x57mauser Registered User

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    That's pretty standard for a lot of American 11 jewel movements, gives the appearance of a higher grade movement

     
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  20. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    I wonder if that's the difference in the ledger between 2 or 4 holes and 2 or 4 pairs?
     
  21. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Plain 7 jewels including 2 hole jewels and 2 cap jewels on the balance, 2 pallet stones and the impulse stone on the balance.
    1 pair 9 jewels with the escape wheel usually jeweled. Normally seen in exports to England.
    4 holes 11 jewels all in top plate (looks like 15J)
    2 pairs 11 jewels
    3 pairs 13 jewels
    3 1/2 pairs 14 jewels. None have been observed so the location of the unjeweled pivot is unknown.
    4 pairs 15 jewels except that on AWCo grade there are usually additional cap jewels
    4 1/2 pairs 16 jewels except AWCo and sometimes Am'n have cap jewels in addition to hole jewels
    5 pairs 17 jewels. Essentially all the early ones are AWCo grade and have cap jewels in addition to hole jewels. This results in 19 and sometimes 21 jewels. e.g. 5pr4 for 21 jewels or 5pr4 des if diamond end stone.
    6 pairs 19 jewels with the jewels in the barrel that are invisible from the outside. Most have cap jewels in addition.
    7 to 23 Later runs have the actual jewel count listed rather than jewel pairs



    Rob
     
  22. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    1863 PSB 11J.......(see post #19, appearance).................Keith R...

    100_1454 (800x600).jpg 100_1436 (800x600).jpg
     
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  23. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    Thanks musicguy, also apologies to Dano for hijacking the thread.
    I knew the rest of that just after seeing quite alot I hadn't seen any with jewels on one plate only.
    All the ones I have had, have said pairs never holes so I was curious.
     
  24. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    If you look closely, you can often spot 11 jewel movements because there are no settings on the top plate jewels. They usually have a ring engraved on the plate to look like a setting and non functional screws on the edge of the engraved line. The jewels are pressed into the plate.
     
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  25. Dano4734

    Dano4734 Registered User

    No apologies needed wonderful discussion my friend
     
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  26. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    This is not necessarily a good rule to follow on '57s.

    The reason I say that is that WWCo grade movements-to my knowledge-are always(or at least usually) 15j but also have "fake" jewel settings.

    With '57s, the best thing you can do to verify jewel count is remove the dial and look. The ledgers are the next best thing, although as we know they're 100% accurate.
     
  27. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    That was why I did not call it a rule. :) It is a good clue, but there are exceptions. It also applies to most American full plate models from Elgin, Illinois and Tremont for example.

    The rule form would be "do not presume without further information that a watch like that is 15 jewel."
     
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