Y RNT U an NAWCC Member

richiec

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Off track, but when Kevin said paying $5 at the door would rankle membership of any club he belongs to makes no sense, now if you didn't do it that way, you would have to jack up the basic membership fee and drive people away, so the mart charge is only charged to those who attend and doesn't inconvenience those who cannot. After this pandemic I am waiting to see what it costs to use a facility and then totally disinfect it afterwards, it will drive small chapters out of business if membership is unwilling to pay. My feeling is if you want to belong to an organization, you pay to belong, it you don't want to pay, you don't belong. To those who don't belong, you get a lot of help and information for nothing on these forums so those who don't belong to the NAWCC can't complain. Just my two cents, pesos, francs etc.
 

Kevin W.

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No chapters in Canada i know of charge admission to go to a general meeting. A regional yes. I am not complaining but stating a few facts, and about how it feels to not to be able to get all the membership gives to its international members. As far as giving back, i have been helping others and posting here for 20 years, so i think i have paid in those ways.
 
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musicguy

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No chapters in Canada i know of charge admission to go to a general meeting.
So if you rent a space for the meeting who pays for it. Are your chapter meetings
at someone's house. Also our chapter meetings serve breakfast(bagels coffee and muffins cookies and juice).
It's worth the money I pay but we are a large chapter and sometimes get 100 people.
You need to rent a space and it's not free.


Rob
 
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Kevin W.

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Rob, all that is given. People pay chapter fees, not admision. Seriously though it would never fly, you would have no members in the chapter here. Fees are for all those things you mentioned.
 

musicguy

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People pay chapter fees, not admission.
Maybe your chapter fees are higher than ours and we need to supplement ours with admission.
 

Kevin W.

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That could be, higher dues for members.
 

leeinv66

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My feeling is if you want to belong to an organization, you pay to belong, it you don't want to pay, you don't belong. To those who don't belong, you get a lot of help and information for nothing on these forums so those who don't belong to the NAWCC can't complain. Just my two cents, pesos, francs etc.
I fail to see how useful these comments are in a thread where the opening question is : "Y RNT U a NAWCC Member"? Don't you want to know the answer to that question? Or do you only want to hear from the ever shrinking NAWCC membership who like things just the way they are?
 

Snapper

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Thank you for the newsletter tasters.

Personally speaking, and as I described earlier in this thread the reasons for my non membership of the NAWCC (and yes, I have considered it on more than one occasion) is one of economics. For an annual subscription I would have to pay £92 (at current rate of exchange) to a) belong to the NAWCC, and b) receive the journal on a regular basis, which by all accounts is focussed on American clocks. I have little interest in American clocks (no disrespect intended) so the journal would also be of little interest. However I could affiliate to a special interest group assuming one exists for my interests, but for that I have to pay the £92 subscription to NAWCC and also a fee to the special interest group if there is one. For that I would receive a newsletter occasionally.

Mention has been made regarding the perceived materialistic attitude of some overseas members considering only what the benefits are to the member rather than the benefits to the NAWCC as a whole through receipt of subscriptions. Too darned right am I considering the benefits to me. It's my hard-earned that I am spending and I don't spend £100 lightly. I left the BHI for precisely the reason I won't join the NAWCC and that is I cannot justify the expense, special interest group newsletters or no.

As far as forming overseas chapters is concerned, exactly the same issues prevail as they do for BHI and AHS meets. That of travelling to them either by car or ruinously expensive public transport in the UK and maybe overnight accommodation. These are non-issues should one reside in a city near the meeting point or if the meeting point is nearby, but I don't see that such a meeting could viably be held in the depths of rural Lincolnshire for example where the population density is low and the transport links and road network appalling.

I do not want to appear negative but those are the facts as I see them. However the one solution which may attract more overseas member would require the powers that be to recognise that such members will always be at a disadvantage to US residents and realistcally reflect such in the level of subscriptions overseas members should pay. It is akin to the dilemma our government appears to be in when desperately trying to fire-up the dismal UK economy and get money rolling into the treasury. The tradition for all parties has been to raise taxes, a strategy which works for a short term only and fails when spending power shrinks and consumers put the brake on. This time however there seem to be a few voices urging tax cuts to boost consumer spending. Likewise the NAWCC must consider seriously cutting the price of overseas subsciptions by a substantial amount to attract new members.

Here endeth the lesson.
 
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musicguy

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which by all accounts is focused on American clocks.
If you would write an article on European clocks they would be very happy. They are
always looking for good content. We are what are members are interested in. The more international
we become the more diversified the content.:)


Rob
 
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Snapper

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Ah Rob, you flatter me. You wrongly assume that a) I know sufficient about European clocks to be able to educate the learned members, and b) that I have time and resources. However I do take the point that articles are needed for diversification. How about asking every non-member to submit a brief article about his/her clocks/horological anecdotes/advice etc? Oh wait ... that's what the forum is for.;)
 
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Ralph

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I notice a number of members say that the Bulletin is too American horology-centric. I never thought so and just looking at the Bulletin reference page, where it show 2019 and 2020 issue covers... it's obvious that we are an organization with international interests.

upload_2020-6-27_23-59-17.png

Ralph
 

Vernon

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Not sure whom to direct this to. The Forum is mentioned as a benefit to membership so I assume that some membership dues go into this (the website/forum). Why is there also a monthly plea for funds here on the Forum? Is it is because the costs exceed what the NAWCC is willing to allocate?
Sorry if this was already touched on.
 

musicguy

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I assume that some membership dues go into this (the website/forum).
I believe the forum is self funded by a very very very generous person and some
of the money that comes from the forum donations as well (I type in for the forum when I donate).
Software is very expensive and so are consulting fees and it takes hundreds of
hours in the background of work.


Rob
 

Vernon

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Software is very expensive and so are consulting fees and it takes hundreds of
hours in the background of work.
Rob,
Thank you for your response as I had always been curious and thought that maybe the answer might help with someones consideration on joining and or donating to the Forum. I do enjoy it!
 

Peter Planapo

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Actually, I joined a couple of months ago and so I am a member, but my contributions to the message board don't reflect my membership. The little box on the left says "Registered User" but where is the yellow box stating "NAWCC Member"?

How can I get this to show?

Peter
 
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Kevin W.

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I am guessing Monday my membership will be activated. As i have paid up.
 

Peter Planapo

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Well, I assume my membership was activated many weeks ago as the library have me marked as a registered member. Maybe it's a different process for the message board.
 

PatH

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Actually, I joined a couple of months ago and so I am a member, but my contributions to the message board don't reflect my membership. The little box on the left says "Registered User" but where is the yellow box stating "NAWCC Member"?

How can I get this to show?

Peter
Welcome to the NAWCC, Peter! One of the moderators can help add your banner here on the forum.
 
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Kevin W.

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My yellow banner is showing but i cant get acess, even after i sign on. Guess i have to be patient and wait.
 

PatH

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You can probably just hit the Report button at the bottom of your post and type in your request.
 

new2clocks

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As Pat stated, the "Report" button will get your message/request directly to the moderators. Whomever is "on duty" can make the adjustment.

BTW, a belated welcome to the NAWCC!

Regards.
 

Peter Planapo

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Great idea, I feel a bit dim for not thinking of it, but have now asked for help. Thanks!
 

musicguy

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Our Technical Admin bruce helped you :).


Rob
 
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Ralph

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In an effort to dismiss the notion that the NAWCC is centric anything, I did some Bulletin Searches, very broad, e.g. Knibb; English; Canadian; Japanese; London and Liverpool. I then did Chronometer,; Viennese; German; French and Astronomical. With such broad searches, it appears they limit the results to 5 pages. Looking at the results you will see there is a wealth of information buried in our digital resource and remember they limit the results to 5 pages. Using a more qualified argument, should yield more meaningful data to interested members.

Ralph
 

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Peter Planapo

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I haven't had the impression that NAWCC is unfairly US-centric. Most members are likely to be native English speakers from Anglophone countries of whom probably over 70% live in the US, so it wouldn't surprise me if well over 70% of membership were US. It's just logical. And of course much of the conversation on the message board is about European clocks, whoever is in the discussion. I've had a few European clock questions and some of the best answers were from members in the States. So no complaints from me on that score.

Peter
 
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Snapper

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I am assuming that there is an end game to the OP's question and none of the discussion has mentioned the elephant in the workshop. I indicated in an earlier post that I would be happy to pay a reasonable sum merely for access to the forum. I accept that it is in the power of users to donate but would a compulsory reasonable fee be viable or even sensible if it will keep happy those working hard behind the scenes and members and non members alike? Perhaps a month's free trial to new users would be required to avoid discouraging joining in the discussions.

Nothing I have read above has changed my stance on membership, certainly not at the current asking price, but I do enjoy the forum immensely and interacting with so many knowledgable folk.
 

musicguy

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I see the NAWCC as an American association based in the USA where the majority of its members are
If it does not look after them it will not last
Reading this and other comments I would like to say that
this thread was NOT aimed at our international members specifically and why they should become members(we do appreciate you!!!).
It was aimed at all of of the people who use the forum on a regular basis who
share information here that are not members of the NAWCC and ask them:

What I would really like to know is why you belong to the Message Board but not to NAWCC.
I think there have been some very good and thought provoking answers.

In the end it could all come down to the old adage. If the forum
is free to use by anyone and that is 99% of their particular involvement with
the NAWCC(International or Domestic) then they probably will not
join because there is no need to. I know that 99% of my interactions
on a daily basis are here on the forum(if everything else disappeared I would still
remain a member of the forum).


Rob
 
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new2clocks

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Reading this and other comments I would like to say that
this thread was NOT aimed at our international members specifically and why they should become members(we do appreciate you!!!).
It was aimed at all of of the people who use the forum on a regular basis who
share information here that are not members of the NAWCC and ask them:
Rob,

Just look at the "Users Who Have Read This Thread" at the bottom of this page.

Members are listed in BOLD - non-members are not in bold. As I write this, overwhelmingly, BOLD names show. And of the non-bolded names, most (I think) are international users.

Of the responses to this thread, only two U.S. based non-members have commented - the balance of responses from non-members come from international folks.

What does this mean? I would like to hear the opinions of others on this question.

Regards.
 

musicguy

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I think the statistics show that many many people( that's a lot of people;)) come to this forum and post here
but the majority don't become members of the NAWCC. It has nothing to do particularly with any sub group of our members.
I think the question is how do we convert some of the 1000's of people who join every year
and post but don't join the NAWCC.

The international members also need to be addressed
too based on some of the comments from our respected international members.
Maybe we need to re think the international membership
annual fee's and make them more inviting for them to join.



Rob
 

Tim Orr

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Good afternoon, all!

A few pieces of information that might be relevant here: The editorial staff of the Watch & Clock Bulletin and Mart & Highlights do not solicit, commission or pay for any of the articles that are published, nor does the staff research or write these articles. All articles published are voluntary efforts by NAWCC members.

I can also report that there is not an enormous backlog or surplus of articles on hand waiting to be published, so I encourage any member who would like to contribute to NAWCC publications to do so. No article would be rejected on the basis of its national origin.

Guidelines for submitting articles are here: Submission Guidelines | National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.

Best regards!

Tim Orr
 
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John Matthews

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I have just found this thread and have to admit I haven't read all of the contributions carefully, so I apologise if I repeat points already made.There are numerous threads on this topic scattered across many forums, some in the general area and some on the forums restricted to members.

I joined the forum as a registered user in September 2015, but only became a member last year. Based in Europe, and collecting predominantly C18th and C19th English pocket watches, the European pocket watch forum is my 'online base'. The expertise and knowledge of the contributors of that forum, generously shared by members and non-members alike, has enabled me to address countless questions and gaps in my knowledge.

So why did I decide to become a member? It certainly wasn't peer pressure and the cost of joining did not figure at all in my considerations.

There were a number of reasons:
  • my interests broadened - English pocket watches that that had crossed over to America, watch makers that had emigrated, English movements in American cases, American military watches than found their way to Europe during WWII .... Chasing down the provenance and manufacture of individual items caused me to seek American references;
  • I had a need to access additional NAWCC resources - I had the perception that this would be satisfied by membership;
  • I also began to ask the questions - Would the forum exist, without NAWCC? & Without NAWCC facilitating the forum, would it continue to be free?
As I have said in a number of posts, I have been disappointed with the ease of access to NAWCC resources - the online facilities are not up to the standard that I expected. Much needs to be done to improve the access to, and in some areas the quality of, information. At the moment if I had to justify the membership fee on the basis of the new world (sic) of information I have been able to access, I could not. However, I am hoping that this will change in the not too distant future. Recent exchanges with members has given me confidence that there is a growing recognition that the quality of online facilities, is not what it needs to be.

So in a nutshell, I joined because I wanted access to information and the knowledge base I depend upon, would not exist without NAWCC. I also believe, that while I am only one voice, a vocal member's voice, may have more chance than one registered user's voice to make a difference.

I would encourage all regular registered users who value these excellent forums, to ask yourself - do you believe these forums would exist without NAWCC?

John
 

zedric

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I recently rejoined as an international member, but am finding out again why I left. Access to the Bulletin is limited and quirky - you almost have to download it page by page. Access to the library is via an antiquated search engine, almost as bad as the one used by the Bulletin. In fact, the simplest way to access knowledge is to ask a question on the Forum, which is free. The question for international members, I suppose, is as John says, would this resource be available if the NAWCC wasn’t here? Given it depends on volunteers who are often not NAWCC members, I’m not sure what the answer to that is.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I would echo some of Zedric's comments.

Seems like endless problems when attempting to search and access the bulletin (e.g., endless requests to log in; yes, I have cleared my cookies and followed other boiler plate advice/fixes provided).

If a benefit of membership is to provide access to the knowledge residing in the NAWCC publications as well as other resources and the convenience of accessing it on-line, this needs to be improved once and for all. Why pay dues for ultimately inconsistent as described "quirky" access to a major benefit of membership.

Now I'm going to step up onto my soap box. Some might wish to skip the next 2 paragraphs.

RE: the Forums as a source of some of that knowledge. Yes, it is. There are folks who endeavor to contribute some very good and informative posts. In fact, I believe the reality is that if one is interested in clocks made elsewhere besides the US, which generally translates to UK, Germany and N. Europe (sadly, very little from elsewhere, e.g., other parts of Europe, Japan), then the Forum is the place to look.

The other reality, IMCO, about the Forums is that what I consider more interesting and informative posts get buried under total rubbish. Sorry, that's my very subjective opinion and feel free to disagree and criticize me for my opinion. For example, look at the recent > a dozen postings of rather useless seemingly endless questions about box lots of junk...and people keep it going. Would I ever change that? No. At the same time it's an admittedly necessary aspect of the Forums, too. I'm sure there are people who find it informative. It brings people to our door step.

RM
 

rstl99

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If you would write an article on European clocks they would be very happy. They are
always looking for good content. We are what are members are interested in. The more international
we become the more diversified the content.:)
I am a member from Canada and my horological interests are also not focused on american clocks and watches, which do dominate the content of the Bulletin more often than not. It's partly for this reason that I decided to actually author a couple of articles on subjects that DO interest me: Parisian watchmakers from the early-mid 18th century. I hope other readers share that interest a bit, or at least welcomed a bit of a change from the usual N-A content. A third article I wrote on this subject is being prepared for publication by the Bulletin staff.

Anyway, that is a way (in addition to being an active participant in my local NAWCC chapter where I occasionally make presentations, and a semi-regular contributor to several forums) that I can contribute something to the knowledge base of the NAWCC. Paying for my membership is a way for me to keep this organization going, which has given me so much in the 4-5 years I've been embarked on this horological journey.

As an author, I have received very few appreciative comments, but that's probably the norm, and I can only hope that there are some people out there who have enjoyed my writings. These articles take a lot of time and effort to research and write (involving translation of source documents because of the subject), but have provided me with great satisfaction just to have them become part of the horological information universe, and to have documented the lives of a few forgotten French watch/clockmakers for posterity.

I should add that I recently paid a membership to AHS, which allows me to search their vast collection of back issues (of Antiquarian Horology, Horological Journal, and Watch and Clock Maker). I'm planning to submit an article I'm working on to them, on an English watch/clockmaker, as my way to contribute to their efforts.

Whether I remain a paying member of both the NAWCC and AHS in the future remains to be seen, the costs do add up and one has to be mindful of expenses on a pension...

Best regards
--Robert
 

Tim Orr

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Good afternoon, Robert!

Thank you for your articles on Parisian watchmakers! Since all the articles published in the Watch & Clock Bulletin can only come from unpaid member volunteers, we are totally reliant on members like you if we are to broaden the scope of content to include horology from around the world.

So thanks for supporting NAWCC as a member, and as an author!

Best regards!

Tim Orr
 
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rstl99

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Thank you Tim, and you're welcome.

Now back to researching my new article (which may be expanding into a book!)...

Regards,
--Robert
 
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