Y RNT U an NAWCC Member

Discussion in 'Horological Misc' started by Tim Orr, Jun 18, 2020.

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  1. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, all!

    Why haven't you joined NAWCC?

    There are a lot of Message Board members who are not NAWCC members. As chair of the NAWCC Membership Committee, I wonder why that is.

    So, I’m asking: Why aren’t you an NAWCC member? Please tell me. If you post here, I promise – cross my heart and hope to die – that I won’t argue with you, browbeat you, or nag you to join. (I can’t speak for anyone else but me.)

    I might have a question or two, but no pressure.

    If you’d rather not post in on this thread, send me a Private Message. (Click on my name on the left, then on this link: 2Screen Shot 2020-06-17 at 4.46.42 PM copy.jpg

    Again, I promise …

    But what I would really like to know is why you belong to the Message Board but not to NAWCC.

    I’m an old advertising man with a fairly thick skin, so I am pretty sure I can take it!

    I hope to hear from you.

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr

    P.S.: If you’ve decided you want to join, just click on the NAWCC logo at the top right of this page, then click on the “JOIN” tab on the homepage (Next to the "FORUMS" tab). First-Time/1st-Year members pay just $52, a dollar a week!
     
  2. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Less bang for your buck for international members.
     
  3. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Well, it could be name changed to IAWCC?
     
  4. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    There is very little for people in the UK
    I do not know if this applies to other countries outside the USA
     
  5. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Les:

    What about the AHS and the BHI -- don't they provide some horological benefits and knowledge?

    Frank
     
  6. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Frank
    I agree with what you say
    I meant that as far as I know the NAWCC has very little in the UK compared with US
    Les
     
  7. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

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    A little pricey for UK members considering what little there is for we over the pond. I am a AHS member and have only recently ceased membership of the BHI. and that decision was taken reluctantly. I just could not justify the expense.
     
  8. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Frank,

    Yes, they do, and I'm a member of both organisations, but whilst the BHI does have a members' forum, (not frequented very much it must be said), the AHS does not and neither has an online facility with the scope and breadth of this one. True, they each have their strengths, the BHI in its mix of professional and amateur memberships along with the Horological Journal, and the AHS also in its excellent journal and more academic approach to horology. Both publications peer review submitted articles quite rigorously.

    Although I'm sure he will clarify, I expect that Les was referring specifically to the facilities available to NAWCC members living outside the US, which are necessarily concentrated around online access.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  9. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Snapper,

    Were you an ordinary or business BHI member?

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  10. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

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    Just a lowly associate. I live within reasonable distance of the BHI HQ and I had planned to visit their library on a regular basis but found I couldn't get away from my workbench long enough!
     
  11. Vernon

    Vernon Registered User
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    Maybe there could be two levels of membership?
     
  12. FDelGreco

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    I also belong to AHS. I pay a lot for the four magazines per year, although the mags are excellent. I used to pay even more until they came out with the reduced cost for magazine subscribers only. I joined BHI about 25 years ago but I thought it was too expensive for what I got so I dropped it after the first year. We really get a lot at NAWCC for what we pay.

    Frank
     
  13. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Frank,

    Exactly the situation with those of us who are NAWCC members outside the US, we can't access the chapter meetings or the other resources in person. The value I receive from the BHI and the AHS, apart from their publications, lies largely in the high standard of the meetings and lectures in the local BHI branch and AHS section.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  14. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Very curious.

    A few people from outside the US who participate rather actively on the Forum have responded to this thread. Some are also NAWCC members. As I have stated multiple times, I think they are, whether NAWCC members or not, a tremendous asset.

    They indicate, basically, that the NAWCC doesn't offer much to them.

    Yet, they, as well as a number of other "international" participants who REGULARLY participate on the NAWCC FORUM (my emphasis). Some of these folks, many who are non-members have 1000's of posts.

    SO, I'm perplexed. This is evidence, then, that the NAWCC doesn't/wouldn't have enough to offer them as members??

    I would suggest this is evidence otherwise and maybe through membership and active participation, these folks might create even more content to their liking:???: Wouldn't they like to support in other ways an organization they seem to like to be a part of??

    I don't know.

    RM
     
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  15. UncleDoc

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    I will be joining soon. Your post is well taken. I'm enjoying the learning process so much. I never thought an interest in horology would develop to the extent that is has.

    Duane
     
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  16. FDelGreco

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    Chapter 103 is a UK chapter. Does anything go on there? My friend Phil Priestley, who has passed away, was president of that chapter for a long time and told me that they never met or did anything. I just checked and there is a secretary but no president.

    My question is, what would motivate our international members to create chapters and participate in them? And would chapters outside the U.S. help foster membership in the NAWCC?

    Frank
     
  17. UncleDoc

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    I just joined, but the process was a little glitchy. Haven't received any confirmation. Patience...
     
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  18. John Arrowood

    John Arrowood Registered User
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    I am going to ruffle some feathers and raise some hackles with this question: what is the source of the funds required to keep this site up and running and the salaries of the personnel needed ? It seems to me that non-NAWCC members who are frequent users of the site should donate funds toward its operation based on its value to them.
     
  19. gmorse

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    Hi Frank,

    I'm not aware that it does.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  20. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Another factor is the Canadian dollar, compared to the American dollar. And currently with Covid many folks have less money to spend too.
     
  21. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good evening, all!

    Thanks for all the traffic so far!

    The more specific you can be, the more helpful it will be to our planning.

    Also, should mention that if you really want to save and are content with reading publications on your computer screen, First-Timers can get their first year at $40 (USA$40 worldwide). Renewal with electronic publications – everywhere in the world – is USA$80. You get everything any other member gets, just not a printed paper copy of the Bulletin and Mart.

    Your issues are available instantly (no waiting for the mail), and you have full access to the archives, etc.

    Best regards!

    Tim
     
  22. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good evening, all!

    Well, I screwed that up! It's not $40, but $42 for the First-Time/1st-Year membership with electronic publications. So, my mistake. Sorry! If it's important to you, PM me and I'll send you the $2.

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     
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  23. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

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    Make no mistake that this forum is a magnificent asset to all who have an interest in clocks and watches and I would not have taken up clock repairs without the asistance and encouragement I have received from its kind members. The fact remains that for most outside North America, there is insufficient infrastructure to attract a full subscription to the NAWCC. Even if there was an active branch in the UK, its geographical location would preclude many members from attending meetings and events. Fo folk like me living in the backwoods, travel here is relatively slow and massively expensive should trains be considered. As mentioned earlier, I am a member of the AHS whose lectures are held in London, which is two hundred miles from me. I have attended and thouroughly enjoyed a number of them, but the overall cost for me is in excess of £300 for each event as overnight accommodation is required.

    Having said that, I would be happy to pay a nominal sum for the support of the forum, but please also bear in mind that it must certainly attract new full NAWCC members and charging a fee may well discourage them.
     
  24. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Snapper,

    Yes, that is a lot of money just for a lecture. I guess the East Anglian section in Bury St Edmunds is still a long journey for you. My nearest section meets at West Dean College near Chichester, but that's still 60 miles each way.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  25. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Welcome to the Association UncleDoc! Happy to have you aboard. :)
     
  26. novicetimekeeper

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    I donate to the forum sometimes but I'm not a member. I am a member of the BHI, and I was a member of the AHS but the meetings were too far away.

    You could have with and without ads on the forum to differentiate between members and non members.

    It's a cost/benefit thing for me, I think full membership is not a significant benefit for overseas members.
     
  27. FDelGreco

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    Let me ask those of you who are nonmembers because of cost or location. Would you be interested in a subscription-only membership -- that is, you get the Clock and Watch Bulletin online but nothing else that full members get? Of course, you are still entitled to this forum, as everyone is. AHS did this a couple years ago and lowered my cost, as the only benefit I get from them is the magazine.

    Frank
     
  28. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

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    I would be interested provided the cost is reasonable.
     
  29. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

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    Getting to Bury St Edmunds takes me as long as it does to get to London! I worked in Bury for a short period so I have experience of the route.

    I suppose we backwoodsmen will always suffer this and I understand it. Organisations have to hold meetings where they will attract the most attendees.
     
  30. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I don't need a bulletin, online or otherwise. If there was just an associate international membership at a low price I'd join. My professional memberships for my job which get me letters after my name with professional accreditation only cost me £35 a year and are tax deductible!
     
  31. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Frank
    It is certainly worth looking at
     
  32. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Not that interested to read the subscription online. Whats worth more to me would be to search past bulletin articles.
     
  33. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, Kevin!

    I don't know if this is the answer for you, but a digital-only subscription, which gets you access to both the current issues as well as digital search and downloads from all archive issues, is $80US.

    I'm attaching a print version of our membership application, since it includes all the options.



    Best regards!

    Tim
     

    Attached Files:

  34. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, Roughbarked!

    If the organization were to change its name to "International Association of Watch & Clock Collectors," would that be enough to get you to join?

    Thanks!

    Best regards!

    Tim
     
  35. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Tim and all:

    During the merger process in 2003, we investigated changing our name. It is actually rather expensive to do so when you think not only about the legal aspects, but all the other things associated with a name change. So, should we spend the money on the new website, or on a name change?

    Frank
     
  36. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    In one of the previous, semi-yearly (or what seems like semi-yearly:rolleyes:) threads on this same or similar topic, I suggested that our international members pay the same fee as those in the U.S. but have no reasonable access to some of the assets that we have marketed as a major benefit of membership - local chapters and the Museum to name two. I suggested that international members should be charged a discounted fee because of this discrepancy. The answer I received was that the above mentioned European clock organizations do not provide discounted fees for U.S. members, so the NAWCC was following best practices (my paraphrasing).

    To me, this was, and still is, non-sense. The NAWCC needs to create is own plan to attract non-U.S. members and not use the BHI and the AHS as prototypes for charging fees to non-U.S. members.

    In addition, I subscribed to Clocks Magazine for approximately 10 years. Clocks Magazine ("CM") is an excellent publication, but I no longer subscribe to CM. I enjoy U.K. clocks (my favorite clock is a U.K. clock) and CM, of course, is U.K. centric. CK also had some great articles by the late Doug Stevenson and German clocks. Once Doug passed away, CM, to me, became almost exclusively U.K. oriented, and I found my interest waned in reading the articles. I enjoyed the variety that, in my opinion, did not continue.

    I suspect that our Bulletin could be too U.S. centric for the enjoyment of our non-U.S. members. I will let them opine on this issue, as my observation could very well be wrong and therefore irrelevant. The point is - are we supplying our non-U.S. members enough of their interest, as Clocks Magazine did at one time for me.

    To summarize - (1) we should provide discounted fees to our non-U.S. members since geography dictates that they can not enjoy the full benefits that a U.S. member can enjoy and (2) we must determine if we are offering the content that non-U.S. horologists enjoy. To point number 2, this is a very good opportunity for them to speak.

    Just some thoughts on international membership.

    Regards.
     
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  37. novicetimekeeper

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    Seems fair. I have an interest in English clocks, longcase before 1740, brackets before 1800, and dial clocks to about 1850. I have a small collection of mainly 18th century English watches.

    Most of what the NAWCC is about, and most of the message board, lies outside my interest. The BHI is much more inline with my interests, and the AHS is too but too far away.

    I have enough in the message board to keep me coming back, I have learned an awful lot from the generosity of those who share their knowledge here. I think I'm too far away geographically and in collecting terms to get much more.
     
  38. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    I enjoy reading these threads but never participate as they always seem to go in circles. I am a fairly new member and felt I had to join as I was getting so much enjoyment and education from the message board. I read the Bulletin online, I would love to get hard copies but it's just too expensive. I also very much enjoy searching past Bulletins, so much information available that's outstanding.

    I think the members above are zeroing in on international membership, it has to be more inclusive. Yes, changing the name to IAWCC would be a fantastic idea. I saw the comment above about the cost of changing the name vs a new website. They don't have to be mutually exclusive and it doesn't have to happen all at the same time. Of course complete the website, it's a great thing to do.

    Once completed though, what better time to make the organization a worldwide endeavor. We all know that horologists worldwide are diminishing, let's get them all together and work on increasing membership for the next generation together. Eventually I could see partnerships with museums around the world, maybe even have some IAWCC sponsored training courses, same with libraries, all globally. The Bulletin could even rotate articles with contributions from different continents each issue

    We could do this with say a five year plan, not all at once. Let everyone know what the vision and timeline is, get people excited as it progresses. I think we need to start thinking a bit bigger. I am imagining how I could search international content from around the world on one website. There is a lot I like about being a member, some of the members on this website are such a wealth of knowledge, but lets have a global vision.
    Don
     
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  39. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    New to clocks i totally agree with what you said about International memberships. Like i said if the price was reduced to use the search function of the bulletins to research and use the message board, for me thats what i am most interested in.
     
  40. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    One warning I would have.

    A few years ago it was my definite impression that the MB and even the Bulletin became much too dominated by German clocks. If I read one more time about "my new cuckoo" or something like that I thought I would go cuckoo. Some interesting things were presented. However, overall and criticize me for saying so, it was tiresome, repetitive and a lot of rubbish was being posted. Sorry for my strong opinion.

    My interests are largely American. So, I contribute material to the Forum that reflects those interests. However, I also enjoy reading about the non-American stuff as well if I feel it is authoritative and well presented.

    I think what I would hope for is maintaining a balance and variety. That might could occur, in part, by international participants stepping up and providing the content that reflects their interests as members, contributors to the Forum and even authoring articles for the Bulletin.

    I think it is apparent from these repetitive cycles of membership related threads that the NAWCC is seeking and open to directions for change, including those changes that make it more inclusive. Well, consider the means by which one may be an agent of the change you might like to see?

    RM
     
  41. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good evening, all!

    Let us ignore the cost (to the Association) consideration for a moment: If the name were changed to IAWCC, would you join?

    Best regards!

    Tim
     
  42. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I suspect more than a name change may be in order?

    RM
     
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  43. Kevin W.

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    I think more than a name change is need.
     
  44. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    Name change alone won't do it, we'd have to actually make the organization international.
     
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  45. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Today, 22nd June 2020, $80US is worth roughly £64.6
     
  46. novicetimekeeper

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    That's a little under twice what I pay to be a Member of the Institute of Physics.
     
  47. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

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    A change of name alone will not encourage me to join at current subscription rates given my location. A £60 odd subscription for access to digital copies of the Bulletin is not lighting my fire either, particularly if the main interest within is American clocks. My main interest is with precision British clocks of all types but particularly marine chronometers. Whilst I happily pay a similar subscription to the AHS, I do receive a superb quarterly hard copy journal and I do have the opportunity of attending lectures and events. Unless a hitherto unknown wealthy relative drops off this earthly perch having previously written me into his will, then attending events and lectures in the US is not going to happen.
     
  48. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    You have other interests, which sound interesting to me and I would like to read about though they are not my main focus, then consider working within the organization whether it's called the NAWCC, IAWCC, the MMC, etc., to bring those to others.

    RM
     
  49. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    A few years ago, we got a request for the formation of a chapter in China. We now have the "Yellow River China" chapter. The participants were very enthusiastic about it and wanted their chapter to stand out by having chapter #500. It was granted. Now considering that we have virtually nothing written in Chinese, what drove them to wanting to join NAWCC and form a chapter?

    The point is that we need to discover the wants and needs of our current and former international members if we expect to expand in this area. And also the negatives -- cost? too focused toward American horology? etc.

    Again, I hate to offend anyone, but a half dozen or so opinions from international members and nonmembers on this forum doesn't provide a representative sample. However, they could form the basis of focus groups to help us create more wide encompassing tools like surveys.

    We also need to find out the same stuff about U.S. members and former members, as I stated in another thread.

    Frank
     
  50. Snapper

    Snapper Registered User

    Nov 30, 2014
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    Lincolnshire, UK
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    I agree that the number of responders to this thread from outide North America is insufficient to draw conclusions. I also wonder why more have not replied.
     

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