WWV defunded?

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Willie X, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    10,107
    246
    63
    After following a currently running thread on 'Standard Time' for a while, I was surprised that WWV wasn't mentioned. I have several friends that are into HAM radio in a big way. One of them recently mentioned that WWV got a surprise defunding, just short of celebrating 100 years of continuous operation. This was the Mac Daddy of time standardisation, it's a shame that it's gone. Politics I guess. Or maybe it just went obsolete like the rotary phone, etc, etc. Willie X
     
  2. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
    NAWCC Member Donor

    Nov 13, 2011
    3,758
    197
    63
    web developer
    oakland, ca.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  3. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
    NAWCC Member Donor Sponsor

    Jul 3, 2016
    1,874
    87
    48
    Carson City, Nevada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    To hear these broadcasts, dial (303) 499-7111 for WWV (Colorado), and (808) 335-4363 for WWVH (Hawaii).

    it gives the usual beat and beep and announces Universal Time currently

    This still works even though the web site says it is down because of the fed shut down - and will be back up once funding is resolved.

    There is also a long wave radio signal that still works but I am not sure what the frequency is - it simply comes up on an emergency radio I have that shows the TIME selection but does not say what the frequency is.
     
  4. Dick Feldman

    Dick Feldman Registered User

    Sep 1, 2000
    1,915
    30
    48
    Colorado, usa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I recently sent a letter to my US Senator pleading for him to maintain funding for the radio station time signal. (Michael Bennet)
    Within a week or so, I got a return note saying that he supported National Public Radio and told me about the importance.
    I wonder who writes his replies?
    Because of the government shut down, there is nobody there to answer the phones or respond to mail anyway.
    Dick
     
  5. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I like using it and have several radio controlled clocks and watches.
     
  6. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 27, 2008
    776
    35
    28
    Male
    95% retired from the ad business.
    Boulder CO
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Good evening, all!

    I don't know how the shutdown might affect WWVB (the broadcasts that sync the "radio controlled" or "atomic" [sic] clocks so many of us have). So far as I can tell, all my clocks of that type are still receiving the sync signal. Perhaps it's more or less automatic – so long as they pay the electric bill. According to Wikipedia, "The 70 kW ERP signal transmitted from WWVB is a continuous 60 kHz carrier ... "

    I had heard that this shutdown has been voted down by Congress at least once before, and that a number of Congresspeople are promising to vote the shutdown down again (See the other thread mentioned above).

    Trouble with the phone system is that depending on the routing, there's no way of knowing how much delay might be involved – not that a little delay much matters to most of us.

    We shall see. Only costs a few million a year to run the whole WWVB system – peanuts by comparison to lots of other programs.

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     
    NEWOSA65 likes this.
  7. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There are other precision time sources available: the GPS system is one, and the Canadian WWV equivalent (CHU, I think) is another. But I've just purchased my first such movement and so I don't know how they're tuned, if they can be tuned at all.

    I believe, however, that many members of Congress are ham radio operators and thus supporters of WWV.

    Mark Kinsler
     
  8. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #8 RJSoftware, Dec 30, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
    The retro wave of going back to good ol days might start rushing back like a tidle wave.

    Check this video out about whats coming down the pike healthwise. You might want to consider stock options when the health boomerangs to fight back.

    Whatever you do make sure to not miss video at 19:14. Interesting...

     
  9. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    37,662
    254
    83
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Scary stuff!
     
  10. glenhead

    glenhead Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 15, 2009
    929
    50
    28
    Telecom Engineer
    Williamson County, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Take a look at the dates on all those panic-causing attempts. They're all from August and September, right after someone in the NIST contacted someone at Wired magazine and got things stirred up. As I posited at the time, this was pure politics. Quoth the NIST: "Give us all our funding or we'll shut down the thing that makes everyone's atomic clocks work." It was done to pressure politicians into continuing the current levels of funding. Operation of WWV and WWVH costs the NIST a grand total of $600,000 per year, according to the budgetary request. That's out of a total budget of $954,000,000 - it's just over 0.06% of the total. The Wired article is what spawned all the panic, resulting in dozens of petitions and thousands of letters to politicians. It had the desired effect. The budget that got passed and signed in November for NIST (that means it's completed) continued current funding levels. WWV isn't going anywhere.

    Glen
     
    musicguy likes this.
  11. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thats good news to hear Glen.
     
  12. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    We worked for years to find any evidence of biological effects due to non-ionizing radiation, which is EM radiation with wavelengths longer than ultraviolet.

    There is none. The video is bogus.

    Mark Kinsler
     
    Time After Time and Kevin W. like this.
  13. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Bottom line, dont believe everything you read on the internet.
     
  14. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I think that's a direct quote from Abraham Lincoln.
     
    PatH and Kevin W. like this.
  15. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Who is the "we" and can you provide "we" citation? Not arguing but the video provides same.


     
  16. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I don't believe everything I read about anything mostly even if I believe. Always room for doubt on both sides of the fence, especially when its science.

    Its like cryogenic thing, or cloning. Seems pretty real, but somehow still a shade away from full blown miracle.
     
  17. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There are many citations available from work done around then; I'll see what formal ones I can find. All are in journals published mostly by the IEEE in the US and other EE institutes in other countries.

    "We" were mostly electrical engineers working independently in various venues. For example, one school I visited had big Helmholz coils (just hoop-shaped electromagnets) poised over petri dishes containing several varieties of bacteria, which were unaffected. There were other studies, both in labs and with epidemiological data.

    My point is that everyone back then was sincere in their hopes for positive results, for there were profits to be made in RF remediation should it prove necessary.
    In fact, there were people who, for a substantial fee, would scan your home for EMF (which means 'electromagnetic force,' and in this context is misused.) The whole enterprise was fraudulent, but I was once actually asked to participate, apparently because my electrical engineering credentials would lend authenticity. I declined.

    There have been two major EMF controversies recently. One involved cancer cases that seemed to be correlated with electric power lines, and the other was about cell phones. There were also minor outbreaks of alarm over RF alleged to come from fluorescent light fixtures (people would cover the ends of the lamps with aluminum foil,) and from electric motors in homes, and from electric blankets. Turned out that many of the power line EMF alarmists were aligned with real-estate brokers, who wanted utilities to bury cables in ritzy residential developments, though that would place the wires closer to people.

    But studies of biological effects due to all radio-wave sources have been conducted forever. It's worth noting that radio has been interacting with people for well over 100 years, from Marconi's Alexanderson long-wave transmitters used for overseas communications in the 1890's, through the million-watt AM station in Cincinnati (WLW was reduced to 50kW around 1930 after complaints involving electric shocks from fences and broadcasts received through eyeglasses, both of which can indeed happen.) and then to broadcasting today from radio and TV transmitters and radar from the nearest airport. No deleterious effects have ever been reported, and it's been my experience that amateur radio operators tend to be old as the hills.

    This was not the case with other technologies. X-rays, which are radio waves whose frequencies far exceed those of anything used for communication purposes, were almost immediately found to be harmful. The same is true with ultra-violet frequencies. Radium, the discovery of which was the medical wonder of the early 1900's, was quickly found to be deadly due to its radiation and emission of radon gas.

    Light, radio waves, x-rays, gamma rays, ultra-violet and infra-red rays or waves (take your pick) and whatever we get from our 60-Hz power lines are all the same thing: electromagnetic waves, or electromagnetic radiation. All of them transmit energy from some source to somewhere else, like an antenna in radio communication or a potato in your microwave oven. But the amount of energy they can transmit depends on their frequency: higher frequency waves (aka shorter waves) carry more energy than longer waves (aka lower frequencies.)

    There is one frequency--that of ultraviolet radiation, which we can't see but bees can--whose waves carry enough energy to knock the electrons off of the atoms in the materials they strike. Ultraviolet radiation and those forms of electromagnetic radiation whose frequency is higher are thus called 'ionizing radiation.' If these strike living tissue they can cause burns (hence sunburn) and they can change the makeup of the proteins of which we are constructed. Cancer can result. (Cancer can also be cured in the same way, for it turns out that cancer cells are rather sensitive to ionizing radiation.)

    A cell phone contains a very feeble transmitter of non-ionizing radio waves. The maximum power is around 6/10 of a watt, but it's generally a great deal less than that: just enough power there to talk to a cell tower located a mile or two away. The cell towers contain many antennas, but the total power transmitted is never more than about a hundred watts, or was when I was involved with cell systems at Lucent. (I think it's less with the newer 3G, 4G, and 5G digital systems.)

    One famous incident was the discovery of a brain tumor in a patient who'd used cell phones a great deal. And this tumor, said the article I read, looked just like a cell phone: an oblong mass with an antenna-like extension sticking out of it.

    Was this proof? Well, brain tumors were among the first cancers to be researched. When they saw a piece out of your skull to look at one, it looks like a crab: there's a central dark blob with leg-like extensions around it. These latter are the blood vessels that supply the tumor. And in Latin, 'crab' translates to the word 'cancer.' The 'antenna' someone saw in the poor fellow's tumor was just one of the blood vessels.

    Mark Kinsler
     
    bangster likes this.
  18. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    RJ i was not refering to you.
     
  19. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I wouldn't take offense anyway KW, its cool...! :)
    Rj
     
    Kevin W. likes this.
  20. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #20 RJSoftware, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
    Curious, what did you think of the women who come down with breast cancer tumors from inserting phone in bra, in the video? The breast tumors made cellphone pattern in flesh.

    I dont think the woman who created the vid is trying to push fear propaganda. In the beginning of video it shows microwve transmission effects of smart meters on blood cells, admittedly close range but is this mixing apples and oranges of cell emf (low) and microwve (high), (frequencies AND wattage)?

    So, for ionizing to take place: frequency enables but wattage makes heat?

    Is this like voltage creates potential but amperage does the killing?

    A car spark has high volts but low amps, so will shock but has not enough amps to kill.
    A car battery has low volts but high amps, can kill but has no potential to jump resistance of flesh.

    Rj

     
  21. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi RJ, about the cell phone. I know a woman who carried her cell phone in her bra for a long time, she did get breast cancer. There are warnings in the instruction manual about exposure to rf exposure. I hold my phone away from my head, and for long conversations i have blue tooth head phones. They are hazards.
     
  22. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #22 kinsler33, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2019


    I think it's entirely bogus. A tumor the shape of a cell phone? Like, it includes the space for the battery, and the camera, and the speech-processing section? If a tumor was somehow going to assume the shape of the object that caused it, wouldn't it be the shape of the RF transmitter and waveguide, which are a very small part of any cell phone?





    A smart meter uses cell phone technology.

    Smart meters became controversial for an interesting reason, and it was through social media. Why? Because there are, and always have been, people who make a substantial living helping their clients steal electric power. A supermarket, gas station, or a ritzy tennis club (that's one case I knew about for sure) will pay well to have their electric bills substantially reduced. So will residential customers (physicians, usually.) The theft is done by means of meter-tinkering and out-guessing the utility's computer algorithms. But smart meters can't be tinkered with, and they keep a record your power use throughout the day, effectively putting the power thieves out of business. (I learned a good deal about this sort of thing when I worked at Northeast Utilities and a good deal more in graduate school.)


    The only electromagnetic waves capable of ionization have frequencies at or higher than ultraviolet. The energy transfer is entirely dependent upon the frequency; the formula is [energy = (frequency) x (a number known as "Planck's constant)].


    Probably not. For all the literature written about what causes cancer and what doesn't, we still know very little about the biochemistry by which tumors start forming. A very great deal of medical research is done with statistics: researchers compare the medical records of people who contracted cancer with those who have not, and draw whatever conclusions they can. Other researchers experiment with animals, usually mice, to see what environmental factors might cause cancer to start. (Non-ionizing radio waves did not, though you can always cook a mouse with sufficient power.) And still other researchers work at the molecular level, trying to figure out just what sort of thing would scramble your DNA as well as disable the immune system's ability to kill rogue cells.


    That is true. Electrically the human body acts like a leather sack filled with salt water. If the resistance of the leather bag is reduced, as it was when I was doing demonstrations on electroplating and thus soaked my hands with dilute sulfuric acid, a 12 volt battery proved capable of pushing enough current through M Kinsler to make him leap gracefully into the air in front of an audience.

    Please understand that there is an enormous amount of pseudoscience available, especially through YouTube. I just reviewed a set of videos which contend that jet airliners do not require fuel to fly, and that the fuel costs that affect air fares are a conspiracy by the airlines to overcharge the public.

    The free-energy and anti-gravity people have managed to gain enough credibility to get a few of their claims published by legitimate journals: I just had my second such battle with _Power Electronics_ over an article concerning a no-power motor (like all of them, it used permanent magnets and also didn't work.)

    The stuff you've been reading is just more bogus science. I don't entirely understand the motivation; perhaps it's the desire to be a famous crusader. But its effect is to frighten people.

    Your cell phone is safe, your smart meter is safe, your water is safe, your food is safe. It can get a bit boring, I suppose, if there's nothing else to think about.

    But we have clocks.

    Mark Kinsler
     
    bangster likes this.
  23. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks Mark, your time and effort is appreciated. Not saying I agree or disagree. But good to have opinions on both sides. I keep an open mind especially on health issues. But yes the internet has drama. I'm pretty sure I draw the line on flat Earthers...
     
  24. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well said RJ, agreed.
     
  25. mauleg

    mauleg Registered User

    Dec 26, 2012
    558
    51
    28
    N. Mariana Islands
    Region Flag:
    Thanks, Mark, for injecting a bit of sanity into the dialogue. I find dealing with the foil hat/conspiracy theory crowd distasteful at best. They just can't get the concept that correlation is not causation...
     
  26. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I've been fighting it out with pseudoscience for decades now, and it's clear I'm losing. The pseudoscience people seem to have allied with political extremists and religious fundamentalists. I suppose you could call it the great awakening of the There Must Be An Easier Way movement.

    Anti-vaccination is popular hereabouts--it's become something of a political statement to refuse a flu shot and to keep kids un-vaccinated. The city of Lancaster, Ohio, won't fluoridate our water, a controversy dating back to the Cold War.

    Here's my latest favorite:

    Yes, they contend that jet airliners do not require jet fuel. There are many more such videos.

    Another reason to like old clocks.

    Mark Kinsler
     
  27. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    red herrings can be wrapped in foil, like the distraction of innuendo. Conversation isnt illegal yet until hate speech wins. No such thing as conspiracy, ever. Just close your eyes, the blue pill will put you back to sleep.

    Bwaaaaa ha ha haaaaa....!
     
    Kevin W. likes this.
  28. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    37,662
    254
    83
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It's amazing to me that there is a Flat Earth Society involving hundreds if not thousands of people who believe the earth is flat in spite of the many photographs taken from space.
    Right now I'm looking out on the Atlantic ocean from my vacation condo. The fact that I can only see about 20 miles out onto the water should in itself prove that the earth is not flat .... but some people just can't or won't see.
     
  29. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I dont agree with what some people say in this thread, science may have many theories but many times does not prove what they say is right.I am free to express my opinions and no one can tell me that being exposed to rf from a cellphone is doing my body no harm. After warnings that are printed in the instruction manual. Something like another thread i mentioned my concern of using naptha, and the harm it can do to your health. I only have a college education but i still listening to people and i like to discuss things. And i too wish i did not have flouride or chlorine in my water.
     
    RJSoftware and shutterbug like this.
  30. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Chlorine is far superior to cholera, and you might ask your dentist about fluoride. Your local municipal water supplier will send you a free analysis of the water they deliver to your home.

    As for the cell phone manual warnings, read them carefully. They're legally required to be there, but we've been using cell phones for 30 years now, all over the world, and nobody seems to have noticed a plague of cell-phone-linked diseases.

    Mark Kinsler
     
  31. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Its your opinion what you posted, as i posted mine Mark Kinsler.
     
  32. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 30, 2002
    4,063
    38
    48
    Brooklyn
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Just one caution: the water isn't safe if you live in Flint, Michigan. Uncorrupted regulation based on science is still required.
     
  33. mauleg

    mauleg Registered User

    Dec 26, 2012
    558
    51
    28
    N. Mariana Islands
    Region Flag:
     
  34. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 21, 2006
    3,609
    70
    48
    Chime clock & gong studies.
    WI
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Their excuses against anything proving the Earth's globe are hysterical to say the least. Sadly there are just some people out there who refuse to grow and learn, preferring to hole themselves up in their own strange little comfort zone devoid of contact with anyone who might call out their laughable outlook of the world. Typically the same overgrown children who prefer trolling around on social media and posting uninspired "memes" in lieu of taking up any constructive activities. The shame of it.

    Time lapse of sun & clock, courtesy of Youtube.
     
  35. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    20,554
    52
    48
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  36. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
    NAWCC Member Donor Sponsor

    Jul 3, 2016
    1,874
    87
    48
    Carson City, Nevada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    One of the well known and easily seen phenomenon that Flat Earthers cannot explain away with their very creative theories is why storms - as seen from below - rotate clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere and counter clockwise in the Southern. ( From above they are seen to rotate the other way around but they don't accept those "phony" photos so use the view from below). This can only be explained by the Coriolis force on a rotating sphere when the air mass moves radially toward the surface. None of their very interesting theories can make that happen on a flat surface whether it is rotating or not.
     
  37. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It's helpful if we remember that some of this is religious. The Bible says that the earth is flat, thus any evidence to the contrary is either (a) liberals or the Devil trying to shake our faith or (b) the Lord's way of testing our faith.
     
  38. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
    Donor Sponsor

    Jun 24, 2011
    2,683
    41
    48
    Male
    Medical Insurance Systems Analyst
    El Dorado, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Most of my interactions with professed "Flat-Earthers" have ended with my finding out that it's something they do as a hobby and don't "believ" in any more than I do. Kind of like LARP-ing. Just actors on a stage.
     
  39. Acolar

    Acolar Registered User

    Jun 29, 2007
    19
    1
    3
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    THTanner likes this.
  40. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    37,662
    254
    83
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    Iowa
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Actually, the Bible says it is round.
     
    MartinM and Kevin W. like this.
  41. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I imagine it does, but that doesn't stop true believers. I always liked Edgar Rice Burroughs' version of the hollow earth whose inner space was accessible through polar portals that you could fly into via airship, if I've got the various novels right.

    My father used to tune in WWV each evening on his Hallicrafters short-wave radio until he became enamored of CHU's signals from Canada. I, on the other hand, just constructed a minimal 'atomic clock' from a $14 movement from Timesavers (there are cheaper sources) and a plastic picnic plate, because you can't use a metal dial. It's way strange to watch it set itself when you put the AA battery in.

    Mark Kinsler

    I read a translation from a Russian or Kazakh commenter that referred to AA batteries as "finger batteries."
     
  42. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
    Donor Sponsor

    Jun 24, 2011
    2,683
    41
    48
    Male
    Medical Insurance Systems Analyst
    El Dorado, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    You can also just go to "time.is" in a browser. it'll show you the correct time for your ISP's location and report how far off your system's clock is.
    (They drift a bit between calls to the official standard).

    If you click on the displayed time, the page changes to only display that and none of the other content.
     
    THTanner and mauleg like this.
  43. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I gotta try that. Thanks.
     
  44. bangster

    bangster Super Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 1, 2005
    17,992
    150
    63
    utah
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Flat earth...FLAT EARTH....F L A T E A R T H:???: :???::argument::emoji_anguished::emoji_point_left::emoji_tired_face::emoji_owl::emoji_avocado:
    Is there any hope for the wretched human race?
     
  45. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    2,035
    105
    63
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Oh, sure.

    We're very adaptable, and the fact that some of us persist in trying to find the easy way out of a complex existence shouldn't cause the rest of us much difficulty.

    People see a flat earth when they walk outside, and it's a bit of a stretch to imagine themselves clinging to the side of a globe so huge that its surface looks flat. It's mostly a matter of refusing to believe in things that are too large to see on your own, or too complex to understand on your own.

    I'll admit that the Internet makes it seem like the population of nutcases is increasing, but I rather doubt that it is.

    M Kinsler
     
  46. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
    NAWCC Member Donor Sponsor

    Jul 3, 2016
    1,874
    87
    48
    Carson City, Nevada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There are members of the Flat Earth Society all around the globe and all they have to fear is sphere itself
     
    chimeclockfan, shutterbug and mauleg like this.
  47. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    10,107
    246
    63
    Me too but a 'wackadoodle' on the internet can really make a lot of noise.

    Willie X
     
  48. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #48 RJSoftware, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Some people fancy debate. To sow within the fabric of a conversation as airtight a n argument/thesis as possible. To see how far the construct will go/live. The more preposterous the greater the challenge.

    My hat goes off to the creator of the flat earth thesis. It does more to show the craftsmanship of good debate in an innocuous form. No harm no foul.

    There are however more subtle and less innocuous. Are they truth or ill intent? Some point out more severe issues and leave deeper questions unanswered.

    Others, less accepting of conversaton, they mock and quick with insult, which seems like a weakness. They are quick to close debate and use insult like a tool/crutch. Like designated conversation police. They seem more irritated than anything else. Is this a response from fear?

    People who strike me the most strange are the ones with the unquestionable position. There are 3 golden words that pride and arrogance seems to stifle...

    I don't know.

    Who is that guy who shouts "burn the witches" in that crowd of many? Who is he that deems himself the authority of truth that ceases debate?

    He shouts "burn the witches" again. The mob follows him. But I never see his face.

    Rj
     
  49. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,187
    47
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  50. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 21, 2006
    3,609
    70
    48
    Chime clock & gong studies.
    WI
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:

Share This Page