Would you re-hole this mainspring?

WIngraham

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Hello, I wanted to see if I could get some feedback on this mainspring.

I removed it and noticed that the hole is very close to the edge of the spring, it looks stable but wanted if this is something that should be re-holed? Am I being too cautious? I don't think cutting off an inch or so would affect the clock, would it? Might be a dumb question.

What would you do? Thanks for any input.

Will

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wow

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Yes. I would re-hole it. It has torn from the original. Should be fine. Just anneal after cutting and shaping the end.
 

WIngraham

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Thanks guys.

Is it necessary to anneal when using a punch? I've done it a few times without annealing and want to know in case I should be doing it.

Will
 
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wow

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It needs to be annealed about three inches from the end to make the end bend easily for the first turn in the barrel. It’s tough to get the end hooked if it is too stiff.
 

Willie X

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Yes, and it has been repaired once already (very poorly). Don't go by anything you have there, it's all bad!

Yes, it has to be annealed. I usually do
1 1/2" to 2" and hold a very dull red heat for 20 seconds. Do not overheat and play the flame in a way to allow slow cooling.

Punching is OK but tends to leave cracks around the perimeter of the hole. So, if you want to punch, do a undersize hole and increase it with various size chain saw files.

The finished hole should be pear shaped with the bigger hole to the outside. Smooth the worked surfaces with 320 wet/dry sandpaper with the grain going with the length of the spring.

Also, the rounded tip of the spring should be about 3/8" past the hole and be bent inward to match the inner curve of the barrel.

If you need a photo to use as a guide, let that be known. Willie X
 
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R. Croswell

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You can easily drill the hole after the spring is annealed. I use a small chainsaw grinding stone in a Dewmel tool to shape the hole. Don’t clamp the spring during heating.. heat about 1 1/2 dull read changing to blue toward the spring. Avoid. A sudden change from tempered to soft.
 

WIngraham

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Thanks for all the suggestions and information! They are greatly appreciated.

I annealed to 1.5'' as suggested with a change towards blue. Punched a hole with two different size punches that were smaller and used Dremel to shape. Worked well. I think my hole could be bigger to make removing the spring easier next time, but I left it be, it was a good fit.

The bluing of the spring inspired me to try and blue the movement screws, which were rusted on one side and original blue on the other. Never tried bluing with a torch but I think it worked. Definitely better than it was. Took a few tries for some of them.

Spring back in barrel and moving on.

Will

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Willie X

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Will,
That spring is short. But, if your clock runs for 8+ days and does everything it's supposed to. Not to worrie.

Also, there should be a little sharp (about 20° inward bend) as already mentioned at the outer edge of the hole. This bend takes a lot of the stress off the hook to spring stress point when fully wound. No bend, and the spring can lever itself off the pin, or break out the hole again. Might need to worry about this a bit, especially with a short spring.

Willie X
 

WIngraham

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Hi Wille,

I think it is a short duration clock, maybe a couple days. Not sure. Is there way to determine run time by wheel counts?

I could not get the hole to hook on until I made the bend. It was after the pic and trying to get it back in the barrel the first time. I think it was you or R. Croswell in another post, when I first started looking that mentioned it. I appreciate the time to take to reply, it is very helpful.

Will
 

Willie X

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The scale looks 8-Day to me.

A photo of the whole movement and case along with any numbers, etc, on the plates would help get you a good ID.

Willie X
 
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WIngraham

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I posted it a few days ago in the New Acquisition forum. I am OK with IDing this one myself, I think I am pretty close. It is an early 18th century Italian clock. Thank you for the suggestion.

There is a lot of wear in the trains so it really was just a clean and admire for me. I wouldn't address pivot wear on a clock like this myself since I don't have any experience. That is a rabbit hole I haven't gone down yet. I do have some of the tools for it though, including a bushing machine.

I am currently restoring the case (nearly finished). Here are some pics of the movement after cleaning, I did not trim the pins yet. The last two pics are before.

Will

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Willie X

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That's a highly unusual movement rite there. Looks like it would have a large amount of power loss (?) so a two or three day run might be pretty good ... Willie X
 

shutterbug

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I haven't seen that type of gearing in a spring powered clock before. Very unusual.
 

WIngraham

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No, not a pinwheel escapement. It is a verge escapement with the crown wheel in a vertical position which I hadn't seen before. It is a one handed clock.

Will
 

RJSoftware

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cool clock..! yep, I meant crown wheel (I think). Sucks when memory goes... Ah, a few brain cells kicked in, this is the kind with a long arbor with 2 paddles for palettes, on opposite sides of ew. I see the pendulum is just solid rod connection. One hand primitive, even cooler..! What's the age estimate?
 
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