wooden works,door assembly

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by Bruce Barnes, Jun 5, 2007.

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  1. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Hello All,
    Just a quick question, and that is, was there any particular reason for having the door open with the columns as a complete unit ( side lock) versus the door opening center and the columns stationary(front lock)?
    Does this have any dating correlation?
    Thanks,
    Bruce
     
  2. Paul H

    Paul H Registered User
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    Jun 23, 2005
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    Bruce;

    I'm of the opinion that the ww clocks that have columns attached to the doors are from the earlier period of ww. Say, from 1828 when chauncey jerome first came up with the bronzed looking glass case design to the earliy 1830's. Not many makers even used this case design. Jerome + Darrow; Boardman + Wells; and E+GW Bartholomew come to mind.

    The reason they may have gone with this design (with the columns on the door) is to more closely resemble the look of the federal mirrors of the time. These would have had the columns adjacent to the mirror glass in the same manner as this case design.

    So does this mean you've got a clock with this design??

    Paul
     
  3. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Hi Paul,
    Yes,my sister has one and it is presently being shipped so she/I will have a little more information when it arrives.
    Thanks for your in depth information.This is her first wooden works clock.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  4. Paul H

    Paul H Registered User
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    Jun 23, 2005
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    Bruce;

    I had one more thought on this. In my opinion, the clock makers went away from this design because the door was too heavy in respect to the rest of the clock and would tend to tip forward when the door was openned. This is particularly true if the weights are removed.

    So be careful when openning the door!!

    Paul
     
  5. fume happy

    fume happy Registered User

    Mar 31, 2005
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    I agree.. careful about tipping! I have a George Mitchell and two pratt and Frosts' with this configuration. Sadly the one is not complete, but i'm working ever closer towards that end! The other one was a lucky flea market find :) both pratt and Frost's are groaners, the mitchell is dated 1828 behyind the columns, and is a typical 30hour terry type movement.

    ~Fumey
     
  6. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
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    It's worth putting a couple of small screw holes in the case in order to install an L bracket or bracket to hang the clock.

    You can almost count on the clock toppling over without it.

    RJ
     
  7. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Thanks for all the great tips and information,I thought that their might be a problem when opening the door as the point of balance would change.
    I suppose that when they were first made and sold the owners would find a suitable area and secure to a wall.
    Thanks Again,
    Bruce
     
  8. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    Feb 19, 2005
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    I still think adding holes should be avoided as much as possible. You just need to be careful when you open the door, and hold the clock as you wind it.

    I also agree with Paul, that this style of clock is the earlier case design for wooden works clocks. These (in my opinion) are the only wooden works clocks that I am certain ALWAYS had a mirror in them. I have never seen this type of clock with a painted glass.
     
  9. Paul H

    Paul H Registered User
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    Jun 23, 2005
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    Amen to not adding holes to the backboard. Why would you want to devalue the clock in such a way. As I said before, the only time you really have to worry about the clock tipping is when the weights are removed.

    Sooth: I know Boardman + Wellsmade this style case along with a few others. Are you sure B + W always used mirrors in this case style:???:

    Jeromes + Darrow probably would have only used mirrors. In regards to short drop cases with this door style, I think they never used mirrors. The biggest maker for these would have been E+GW Bartholomew.

    Paul
     
  10. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Nov 4, 2002
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    I purposely made my shelf tilt towards the back, and shim under the front of the clock for good measure. When winding, one hand is on the backboard to steady the clock. No need for extra holes.
     
  11. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
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    I understand your conservatism. It is not a decision I have made lightly.

    My situation might be a bit different than many of you all's. As I have busy house with kids bumping into walls occasionally from wrestling arround (girls run play and wrestle too).

    But, even so, I think adding a bracket is the smarter decision.

    One of my first impressions about this was when I visited a Nawcc member's shop for 2nd or 3rd time. There to buy some parts.

    A shelf had fell overnight due to some shop mishap and down went a few of his ogees that he had pain stakingly re-veneered. The sad look of discust on his face of work lost and broken glass tablets, spoke volumes.

    Another situation that happens quite often actually is not having the doors of the ogee's shut properly. The little latch might seem shut but was not.

    What has happened to me is the door swings open sometimes when I'm not even there. Talk about lucky. Ive opened the Ogee doors on some and felt the clock start to topple over just from the weight of the door. Some are more vonerable than others.

    I think the old addage that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure holds well here.

    In time many things can happen and most always do. If not during your life time, then the next guys.

    Adding a support bracket is a minimal damage investment for the future life of your clock. I consider it desirable.

    RJ

     
  12. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    Paul, When I mention mirrors, I mean only the larger, older style cases with the full front doors. I have never (so far) seen any such clock with anything but mirrors. Many still have their mirrors because a fair few had a wooden backing behind the mirror, which I believe saved many of them.

    Short drop clocks are an entirely different story, and I'd say the exact opposite on these: All had painted tablets with bob openings.

    When it comes to other "regular" 30 hour half column and splat clocks, I believe "anything goes" (mirrors, painted glass), but I still hold my own personal opinion that the majority of these had painted glasses, and that MANY were broken and/or replaced with mirror. However, I'm aware that some makers had glass installed originally.

    RJ: I find that usually a lot of these larger weight driven clocks often already have holes randomly poked in the backs, or they have had hanging hardware attached. I'd use those first, but I still would not drill new holes unless I absolutely HAD to. And if I had to, I'd make it a very small hole (maybe 1/16) and use something like steel picture frame wire, and a knot on the inside, then tied on the rear to the wall.

    When it comes to shelves, I tend to use ONLY very strong ones, and I use 3 inch screws drilled directly into the wall studs. I have one such shelf that is holding up about 50lbs (an 8 day weight clock that's about 30lbs, 2 other ogees, and a small shelf clock).
     
  13. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Well my sisters clock arrived today safe and sound.....it has what appearsto be the original pendulum bob,brass crank and cylindrical weights that are approximately 4+# each.I was wondering if these clocks came with brass cranks or keys, and if the correct weights were in this weight range?
    Also this clock doesnt have a label and I know that manufactures used the same style case(with variations) ,e.g.,Boardman&Wells,Terry,Jeromes& Darrow and E&G Bartholomew.Does any one know if these manufactures left any kind of mark or I.D. other than the label that might identify the maker?
    Thanks,
    Bruce
     
  14. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2005
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    Bruce,
    Absent a label, the movement characteristics are about the only thing that will help identify maker. And that applies only to the movement; the case could have been made by someone else who purchased the movement for resale. There might be some clues in case construction or stencilling that would allow identifying a maker, but I'm not aware of any systematic studies on that topic. The weights are appropriate for that type of clock, and the key would have been a crank.
     
  15. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    If the columns on the case are of a specific shape (they usually aren't), then you may be able to compare it against several other similar clocks. But for the most part, the movement will be the most helpful to examine.

    Weights should be between 3-4lbs for this type of clock. 4lbs is the most common size. Also, all early weight driven American clocks are wound with a crank. This is also true for longcase clocks, and for other weight driven clocks like viennas.
     
  16. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    At this juncture it looks like this clock has some of it's original,if not at least correct equipment with it,especially the crank, which along with the bob is so dirty it is hard to tell it is brass.
    Mike,you thought the works might be made by Charles Kirke, did he ever retail clocks or was he just primarily a contractor to the manufacturers?
    The backboard is clean,no extra holes and is secured with hand cut nails so I am hoping that the works and the case are not a "marriage",but if it is so be it,nice to have a somewhat hard to find works!
    Many thanks to you all for your invaluable information and guidance.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  17. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Does anyone know of this mortised lock assy had any trim or was it just plain and, are replacement/replica keys available?
    Thanks,
    Bruce
     
  18. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Following instructions to post a photo.....no luck yet
     
  19. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

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    This time maybe..............
     
  20. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

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    Oh well,not bright enough I guess.......................
     
  21. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
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    email me your pics. rjsoftware2000 AT yahoo
    DOT
    com

    RJ
     
  22. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2005
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    Bruce,
    According to Eli Terry & the CT Shelf Clock by Roberts & Taylor, Charles Kirke made his own movements and sold them in a variety of case styles (pillar & scroll, stenciled column & splat, carved column & splat, and bevel). He was in business from 1827-32.
     
  23. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Jerome collector,thanks for the info maybe we will never know.Perhaps when Bob pulls the works there might be a little more info,if not still a very nice clock.

    Rj,thanks for posting my photo.
    Regards,
    Bruce
     
  24. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    Feb 19, 2005
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    Depends on the style of lock. It's ALWAYS possible to have a key made for it, as there are many types available as "blanks" that can be cut to fit.

    But, if it's a plain "Terry type" door lock, a brass key can be bought for only 2.50$ from Timesavers that will fit. I'd need to see a photo.
     
  25. Bruce Barnes

    Bruce Barnes Registered User

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