Wooden eight day movement double fusee cuckoo clock

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by P.Hageman, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    This movement turnes out to have a double fusee inside and there is a small label inside the case which seems original and reads" Julius Faller, Kuckuckuhrenmacher in Eisenbach bei Neustadt (Baden)" Is there any information known about this clockmaker? I found a lot of "Fallers" who where involved in the clockmaking business, but no Julius. As far as I can see everything is original to the movement.

    Julius Faller 1.JPG Julius Faller 2.JPG
     
  2. senhalls

    senhalls Registered User

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    Blackforestclockcollectors.com is a good place to ask specifics to black forest clocks.
     
  3. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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  4. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Hageman, neither B. Schaaf in the 4.th. Edition of "Schwarzwalduhren" nor "Lexikon der Deutschen Uhrenindustrie 1850-1980" (3. Edition) mention this clockmaker.
    And in the clockmaker directory 1860 Julius Faller is also not mentioned.

    The name "Faller" is especially known in Gütenbach: In 1860 there worked 10 clockmakers named Faller in Gütenbach, but no one with the name Faller in Eisenbach.

    Please show us more pics of this very interesting clock. Thank you!

    Chronologiker
     
  5. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Chronologiker, thanks for your info. I placed a new thread on this clock, it seems its better with the subject "Wood plated Cuckoo"
     
  6. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Haven't seen that one Peter
     
  7. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    I make a new thread on this clock, because the subject in the other was perhaps a bit confusing. I got this clock and noticed the small label inside the case, attached to the front inside. The name Julius Faller Eisenbach seems to be quite unknown. I could not find much info on this clockmaker. Hope someone can help me. I think the clock must date somewhere arround 1870? Perhaps a little earlier, I don't know. From what I see it looks as if it is in a remarkable original condition. Only a few pieces of inlay are missing.

    Julius Faller 1.JPG Julius Faller 2.JPG Julius Faller .JPG
     
  8. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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  9. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Now I see it :)

    A handsome clock
     
  10. leeinv66

    leeinv66 Moderator
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    I have merged the two threads on this clock and changed the title. I hope this will keep all the information on this clock in one place.
     
  11. Dittrich

    Dittrich Registered User

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    #11 Dittrich, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
    Please take a glance into Beha-Uhren by Dr.Wilhelm Schneider. There, you will find some facts about Julius Faller at page 13 , 116 and 296 up to 302 . Julius Faller has been one of the main competitors on the field of cuckoo clocks of best qualitity, what is easily seen, if you going to compare the wooden movements made by both.
    One wellknown cuckoo clock, a Bahnha(e)usle with the often used Markgrafen - motiv , was first offered by Julius Faller.
     
  12. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Thank you Dittrich!

    Yes, Wilhelm Schneider gives some information about Julius Faller, but unfortunately Mr. Schneider does not name his sources. And Julius Faller is not mentioned in any official source of BF-clockmakers I know.

    What I have found:

    Julius Faller was born in 1839 as a single child in Röthenbach and later came to Eisenbach. Where he received his training as a clcockmaker is not known. His wife was a born "Wintermantel" (But also a clcockmaker of this name is not mentioned in 1860 in Eisenbach.)
    Around the year 1865 existed in Eisenbach a company Faller & Morat, which participated in 1867 at the World Exhibition in Paris with various cuckoo clocks. Schneider suspects that Julius Faller was a partner in Faller & Morat.
    According to Wilhelm Schneider the movements of Julius Faller have great similarities with movements by Beha; also Julius Faller had been very friendly with Bernhard Beha. Later Faller moved to Röthenbach and made pipes for church organs.
    Julius Faller is not mentioned in the address list in 1889, neither in Eisenbach, nor in Röthenbach.
    He died in 1899.

    Chronologiker
     
  13. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Thank you very much for your information! I indeed noticed there was a similairity between this movement and the movements I know made by Beha. I also was advised there where no eight day fusee movements know by Julius? So perhaps there where not made a lot of them by this maker. I suppose I can safely date this clock then just before 1865? Because the label only names Julius Faller and not Faller & Morat.
     
  14. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Yes, Schneider knows only cuckoo clocks without fusee drive by Julius Faller. But don´t forget: Julius Faller was not very long active. So Faller clocks are quite rare today.

    In the meantime, I have looked at other documents and there are new findings on Julius Faller and your clock:

    Faller & Morat was founded in 1865 by Johann Morat (1838-1904) and Julius Faller (1839-1899). Johann Morat was the financier and Julius Faller the clockmaker.
    Johann Morat is mentioned in the documents as "Zeugmacher und Mechanikus"; he made movement parts and clockmaker tools. He was in the 1860s an important supplier to Beha and other workshops in Eisenbach-region.

    So we know: Julius Faller first had no own workshop in Eisenbach, but lived with Morat in rent. And I think, in the beginning Beha did not realise, that Faller & Morat copied Beha-clocks and sold them abroad.


    But Beha and Faller & Morat were competitors in 1867 at the World's Fair in Paris and now Beha noted that Faller & Morat copied the Beha clocks. Now, Beha will have been called upon Morat to end the competition in clockmaking, otherwise Beha will not buy clock parts and clockmaker tools of Morat any more. I´m convinced, the business partnership Faller & Morat therefore has been ended.

    So Julius Faller started about 1870 his own business in Eisenbach, but he also relied heavily on the same supplier workshops as Beha (for example, on the cases). Beha would not have liked that either.
    Therefore, Julius Faller gave up his business in Eisenbach and moved to Röthenbach. But even there, in 1889, he is no longer mentioned as a clockmaker.

    So we have clear evidence that your clock should have been made about 1875/80.

    Very interisting clock, Hageman! Congrats!

    Chronologiker
     
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  15. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Thank you very much chronologiker for the large amount of information, much appriciated!! Its very nice to know rhe story behind this clockmaker.
     
  16. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    An addition to Johann Morat:

    Johann Morat worked in the 1860s on movement parts and later also built gear cutting machines for the gears of the clock industry. In 1865 Johann Morat brought Julius Faller to Eisenbach and under the name "Faller & Morat" they made complete clocks. So Johann Morat was in the 1860s not only a supplier to Beha, but even Beha's competitor.

    Johann Morat had several sons with whom he founded the well known company Johann Morat & Söhne.

    - The son Alois Morat has long been the only manufacturer in Germany to produce screws for pocket watches and also manufactured complete pocket watches until 1916.
    - The grandson Franz Morat constructed textile machines. This company still exists today, but it no longer bears the name Morat.

    The company Johann Morat & Söhne is still active today under the name IMS-Gear. It is today an important supplier to the automotive industry. Unfortunately, there are no detailed information on the history of the company on the homepage of IMS-Gear.

    Chronologiker
     
  17. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Thanks you soo much!! What is the source of all this information, I could not find anything.
     
  18. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Today, I cleaned the movement and gave it some fresh oil. Polished the bezel and now its running strong again and looks good imho.

    Julius Faller 3.JPG
     
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  19. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Really a very high quality table cuckoo by Julius Faller! Wonderfull condition!

    Hageman, please tell us the opening hours of your private BF-Museum in Holland!

    Chronologiker

    P.S: I´ll answer your question about Johann Morat tomorrow.
     
  20. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    All these information you will not find in the internet, because Mr. Google does not knows the documents in archives. And there are some very usefull books, like "Lexikon der deutschen Uhrenindustrie 1850-1980" (3. Edition 2017)

    Here an ad of the company Johann Morat Söhne in 1911 with the production program.

    Morat, Joh. DUZ 1911.jpg


    Chronologiker
     
  21. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Chronologiker, thank you very much for your research. I made a print of it to keep it with the clock. Much appriciated!
     
  22. ANTIQUECUCKOOCLOCK.ORG

    ANTIQUECUCKOOCLOCK.ORG Registered User

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    Pardon me but just a word, This site I have seen largely states speculation as fact, much of what I have seen here on this site is not accurate. Also found that any attempt to offer an outside fact that might contradict the speculation they make is met with flaming and ridicule.
    In short, its a stuffy group of "know-it-alls" and frankly they dont know much.... :)

    There is a facebook group with some 3000 members that is by all accounts the LEADING source for Black forest clocks.
    Its got some of the worlds best minds for this genre of clocks... Log into Facebook | Facebook

    FACEBOOK GROUP: "Black-forest-cuckoo-clocks" A great place to mingle. :)
     
  23. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    #23 bruce linde, Feb 18, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    at first i thought you were talking about THIS site... but i see you were talking about the blackforestclockcollectors.com site... whew! :cool:

    pls ignore this post, which has been edited to remove my previous confusement!
     
  24. senhalls

    senhalls Registered User

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    The post is referencing my suggestion at the top of this thread. Not THIS site! AND I agree with the posters opinion of the blackforestclockcollectors site. Too opinionated for their own good. Sorry I cannot unring that bell. This site is the cat's pajamas ! Thanks........
     
  25. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    i've edited my post above accordingly.. thx for the clarification!!!!
     
  26. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    I think it's not a good idea (and it is also rude) to criticize other clock pages and clock forums on our NAWCC page. Or to praise own pages! No, that´s really not good!

    But I think it would be a good idea to praise our NAWCC forum once again!

    The NAWCC message board is the world's best forum to exchange views on watches and clocks of all kinds! All members are friendly and competent!

    A big thank you therefore to all our members and the moderators!

    Chronologiker
     

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