Winding stops/ Hermle 1161.

[disciple_dan]

I hope you can see this clearly enough. As I was putting these stops on with the movement installed, I couldn't figure out how to make the stops the same number of teeth away from the long tooth so they will stop at even heights. As you might be able to see the strike stop is 4 teeth frim the long one, the Time is 3 away and the chime is 5 away. The weights are all even now but I don't think they will stop at the same height when I remove the shipping blocks. Thanks, Danny

 

[wow]

Why do you want them to be the same?

 

[disciple_dan]

I think that most customers expect them to be, don't they? I do! I just thought that's the way it should be

 

[wow]

I think that most customers expect them to be, don't they? I do! I just thought that's the way it should be

They change positions as the clock runs, the chime weight moving further at each 1/4 and the strike weight moving further as the hours advance, so I never worry about whether they start the same. Just close is ok I think.JMO.
Will

 

[disciple_dan]

Hey, to each his own. I'm just a freak that way. It doesn't really matter I guess.
Is there a way to make them all even when wound to a full stop? Thanks, Danny

 

[wow]

LOL I’m sure there must be a way. I just never tried to do it. So, after it strikes 12, the strike weight is lower than the other two. Does that bother you?

 

[disciple_dan]

Isn't it that if you wind the weights up to even, after 12 hours they are all even again? (on most clocks) Thanks, Will. Danny

 

[wow]

Isn't it that if you wind the weights up to even, after 12 hours they are all even again? (on most clocks) Thanks, Will. Danny

I guess that’s true after twelve hours but I’ve never really noticed unless one is way off. Then I know something is not working right. If you use the night cut off on chimes and strike, the time weight is, of course, way off at the end of the week. I have a Vienna with grand sonnerie that both 1/4 hours are always right but at the end of the week, the strike weight is about an inch lower than the other two. Don’t know why. Interesting!

 

[Peter John]

Those stops work on the all the way down position as well. If they’re not set up right the weight may hit the stop position when it’s only halfway down. On the hermle movement there are 2 stop positions. One for all the way up and the other for all the way down. I set them up with the weights all the way up. If you can get a hermle service manual that will make the job easier. Otherwise it’s a lot of fiddling and frustration. Peter

 

[disciple_dan]

If you can get a hermle service manual that will make the job easier. Otherwise it’s a lot of fiddling and frustration. Peter

Yeah, I forgot that I have a Hermle service manual. I'll check it out today. Thank you, Danny

 

[NEW65]

I did an 1171 yesterday. I managed to set all three weights at the same level when wound to highest possible position. If I go too high I just release the click and try and again. I definitely must have issues as I always ensure the weights are set level in their highest positions but not too high to avoid cable tightening in wheels.

 

[disciple_dan]

I always ensure the weights are set level in their highest positions

Do you do that by letting out the cable and positioning the long tooth in one of the 4 possible positions get them as close as possible? Thanks, Danny

 

[Peter John]

Danny, did you check your hermle manual? Any setting other than the correct one in the all the way up position will result in the weights not going all the way down before they hit the stops. Peter

 

[disciple_dan]

I looked at the manual and it says that there are 18 turns. It speaks of setting them with the cables let out all the way and in a starting position that will not let the end of the cable come loose at the bottom of the run. I set them with the weights all the way up. This clock belongs to my neighbor so I'm letting it run down and hoping that I was fortunate and got it right. So far, so good. I'll know Saturday.
Thanks, Danny

 

[Willie X]

Most weights stop (at the top) about 3 inches down from the lower edge of the plate. This is the way they come from the factory, as most modern clocks have a split wooden rail below the seat-board to prevent the pulleys/weights from going up to high. Just at (or below) these wooden stops is where the top stopping point should be.

I always adjust the stop-works for the stop at the top, and let the stop at the bottom take care of itself.

Notes: The factory recommends replacing the cables, when you're working on a clock more than 10 years old. When you have trouble with uneven weight positions, it's often due to a stretched cable. Replace them as a set unless the clock is nearly new.

To test, put the movement in the case, and using a 4# weight, crank the weight up and down several times with the the click released. This is a sure fire way to test the stop-works and weigh positions, both top and bottom.

Willie X

 

[disciple_dan]

Most weights stop (at the top) about 3 inches down from the lower edge of the plate. This is the way they come from the factory, as most modern clocks have a split wooden rail below the seat-board to prevent the pulleys/weights from going up to high. Just at (or below) these wooden stops is where the top stopping point should be.

I always adjust the stop-works for the stop at the top, and let the stop at the bottom take care of itself.

Notes: The factory recommends replacing the cables, when you're working on a clock more than 10 years old. When you have trouble with uneven weight positions, it's often due to a stretched cable. Replace them as a set unless the clock is nearly new.

To test, put the movement in the case, and using a 4# weight, crank the weight up and down several times with the the click released. This is a sure fire way to test the stop-works and weigh positions, both top and bottom.

Willie X

Thanks, Willie X. It's been running all week. The strike weight stopped about halfway down. The others I was fortunate enough to get correct. Danny
That's where I heard replace if 10 years old. Thanks, Danny

 

[disciple_dan]

Ok, changing to a different movement now I'm working on a Hermle 241-083 cable-driven regulator style. I'm looking here at my Hermle manual in the "Understanding The Stop works" section III-4. It tells of the tooth count of each gear and the one long tooth and the one shallow gullet. This example drawing relating to my 241 movement is correct in showing one long tooth and 4 shallow gullets. See pic one.
What I don't understand is the direction of the arrows. I'm having trouble interpreting the instructions. Is this top drawing at the bottom of the run or the top? My movement winds in the direction of the arrows so that would make it the top of the run, wouldn't it?
Pic 2 is where the time side long tooth has entered a deep gullet and will continue and the strike side will be stopped in a couple of hours. This is after about 12 hours from a full wind.
Pic 3 is fully wound to stop.
The time side winds CCW and the strike CW.

Thanks for the help, Danny

 

[disciple_dan]

Pic 3 is fully wound to stop.
The time side winds CCW and the strike CW.

So, the drawing and pic three are the same. That is fully wound on my 241 here. Am I missing something?

 

[wow]

So, the drawing and pic three are the same. That is fully wound on my 241 here. Am I missing something?

Dan, I think you have the left side wrong in pic#3. I think the long point on the winding arbor stop stops on the second flat valley of the other stop. It’s on the first flat valley now. Make sense? I think if you leave it that way it will stop half way down.
Here’s how I do it:
Let the weights down all the way.
Then wind them up 1/4 turn.
Then set the stops so the long point stops on the second short valley of the other.
Then wind it up and it should stop about 3 inches from the top.

 

[disciple_dan]

Hey, Will. I have it set up at the top just like the drawing in pic one, see pic three. In trying to understand the instructions, what is the drawing telling me to do? If I set it that way at the bottom and tried to turn it, as the drawing suggests, it would not turn, would it? Since that setup would not work at the bottom, I assumed it was for setting it up at the top although contrary to the written instructions that say to start at the bottom. What else is the drawing for? Well, that setup does not work at the top either. Help me understand this, otherwise, I'll be back here asking questions the next time I need to set up stops.
I don't doubt your method but, how did you come to that conclusion?
I'm studying the instructions again. I think this manual cost 35 dollars so it had better start paying off.
Help me out here. Thanks, Danny

 

[wow]

Hey, there are are so many different kinds of stops it’s confusing. The instructions I used were suggested by Mark Butterworth for that particular kind of stops. If you stop it a 1/4 turn from the bottom it keeps the weight from coming off and keeps the cable from shreading where it connects to the drum. It also keeps the weight from going all the way to the top and getting jammed in the seatboard. That’s why I like that method.
I’ve never seen the instruction manuel so I don’t know about the instructions. I’m sure their way works too.

I looked at the pic again and noticed the marks (indents) on the lower ones. The ones I have done do not have those. Maybe they are different. ?

 

[disciple_dan]

Yeah, there has to be a way to look at them and figure out where to start. There is some way you can count the turns in relation to the number of teeth on the gears. I'm going to get this thing figured out. I need to understand this.
Thanks for the help, Will. I'll let you know how it turns out. Danny

 

[disciple_dan]

Ok, this is fully wound and the left side (chime) weight will go all the way down leaving the cable stay in the drum at the 12 o'clock position. I didn't try the time side but I counted and it will work. I think I understand it a little better now. I think there are 4 shallow gullets to accommodate different pendulum lengths. There are no left and right idler gears, only rights. I'm going to study again tomorrow while it is fresh in my thoughts. Thanks, Will. Danny

 

[wow]

Dan, you are right. I did not see the four low valleys in a row. All I’ve done only have two. Guess I’ve never worked on that model. Follow your instructions, not mine on that one. Mine work on the two valley stops

 

[disciple_dan]

Thanks, Will. Look at the Hermle manual on stop works if you get a chance. I think it is so general that it's useless.
I was wrong about my setup in pic 3 being the same as the drawing. It was not. The final pic is the same as the drawing and is correct for the top.
I think I got this one and will continue to study and get it settled in my mind so I will not have to ask next time. I hope.
Thanks again, Danny
Let's go worship God!

 

[shutterbug]

On the non-winding arbor, you have one tooth that is shallow. On the other wheel is one tooth longer than the other. To set them, remove the one on the winding arbor (no danger in doing that) and wind the clock completely. Then start it and let it run for 24 hours. After that, look at the non-winding wheel, and figure out where to position it in relation to the long tooth so it engages quickly as you try to wind it. Do the same for the other trains too.
That will get you real close to what you need. Test it, and if you have to give it more run time it will be easier for you to do the second time

 

[wow]

On the non-winding arbor, you have one tooth that is shallow. On the other wheel is one tooth longer than the other. To set them, remove the one on the winding arbor (no danger in doing that) and wind the clock completely. Then start it and let it run for 24 hours. After that, look at the non-winding wheel, and figure out where to position it in relation to the long tooth so it engages quickly as you try to wind it. Do the same for the other trains too.
That will get you real close to what you need. Test it, and if you have to give it more run time it will be easier for you to do the second time

Shutt, on the one he’s got there are two valleys adjacent to each other. I have found that the stop on those must be set on the second valley or it will stop half way down?

 

[shutterbug]

I think you are correct, Will. Easy to fix if it's wrong

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

What do the drums look like, when wound? Is there room or not for more cable?

 

[Willie X]

Post #15, last paragraph. That's the only way to know (for sure) when all is well with the stops.

On the wind-ups, I usually bump those stops pretty good. I'd rather find a problem in my shop, than hear about it from the customer a few weeks later ... This is especially true for all clocks with stamped stopworks cogs.

Willie X

 

[disciple_dan]

Hey guys. I really appreciate all the great help. I was piggybacking the Hermle 241 topic on the "Winding stops Hermle/ 1161" thread. Both of these jobs are finished. I guess I need to remember to mark the threads Solved when I get them figured out.
Thanks again for your support, Danny