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$ Wilmac 400 Day Clock

rpbpaul

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backplate.jpg wheel.jpg wheel 2.jpg Wilmac 400 day clock

Hi.
I recently acquired a Wilmac 400 day clock. When I tried to wind it the mainspring barrel turned as I wound and I could see the wheel next to the barrel slipping on it's shaft. Can this be repaired, or how is the brass wheel supposed to be attached to it's steel shaft. Any help would be appreciated.

wheel.jpg wheel 2.jpg backplate.jpg
 
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KurtinSA

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I've never encountered that, but my guess is that the brass needs to be staked to make secure hold on the shaft. I'd like to hear from some experts before you proceed with something like that. If staking is needed, I'm sure it needs to be done in a precise manner.

Kurt
 

rpbpaul

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Hi.
Thank you for your reply. I was wondering if the clock was over wound would the pressure be enough to cause this to happen. You mention staked, what is that or how should I do it.
Pat.
 

KurtinSA

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Pat -

I'm not sure one of these clocks can be over wound. Typically they're wound until there is sufficient pressure against the key...that is how they are to be wound. If the wheel is slipping on the arbor, then something is wrong.

Again, I'd be sure this is the right approach from other people's experience. Staking is where you use specific tools, called staking tools, which are designed to move the brass in a controlled fashion around the circumference of the arbor so that it puts pressure on the edge of the arbor where it passes through the wheel. There's a lot of power at this first wheel, so the fix needs to be appropriate. I found this thread about a similar situation:

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/first-wheel-problem.141191

In the thread, Loctite is mentioned. Could be that's an option as well. But more heads are better than one!!

Kurt
 
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rpbpaul

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Hi Kurt.
I read the thread, it's a bit confusing, some say use loctite and some say not. I think your suggestion to wait and see if others might have a better solution is the thing to do. Trying to find what caused the problem in the first place might be a good idea as well.
Pat.
 

Wayne A

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Looks like the wheel spinning on the shaft cut any brass in the hub away. Probably was not done proper when it was made. I'm thinking the brass needs to be pressed into the hub splines for a mechanically solid connection. There is nothing there for thread lock or glue to really hold on, like kurt said there is allot of force on the first wheel.
 

rpbpaul

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I can appreciate there would be a lot of force coming from the spring to this point. As you say there is not much brass left for the loctite (glue) to grip to. I wonder if silver solder might work. Sourcing a replacement wheel might be difficult, so I will have to find a fix of some sort. Is the proper name for this, The First Wheel.
Pat.
 

KurtinSA

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According to the repair guide appendix, this clock manufacturer might not have been around for very long. It says it was made by Uhrenfabrik Neueck but he had help from Herr, Gutenbach, and Reiner. There may be common parts between clocks from these manufacturer, so that would expand you sources for replacement parts.

Kurt
 
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rpbpaul

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Thanks for that information. I will contact the Horolovar Co. and if they have anything.
Pat
 

victor miranda

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I think I'd try to soft solder it. one of the silver-bearing solders should be good
if it comes apart easily the steel arbor will need cleaning to get the solder to stick.
lower heat required should leave the temper in the arbor. Please avoid a flame for the same reason.
victor
 

rpbpaul

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I don't think the wheel will come off easily, it is held in there but will spin around. If you zoom in on the larger picture of the wheel you may see what I mean. I have found at least 2 more plates very similar, plate 1460 and plate 1676, both Herr plates, and of course plate 1582D by Neueck.
Pat.
 

Rod Schaffter

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Timesavers lists an Herr first wheel, 30.5mm Wheel diameter x 25.65mm arbor length, but the picture is of a generic wheel...

Herr 400-Day 1st Wheel
 
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rpbpaul

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Thanks for the link. The picture shown is not what I need, so I checked their other listings, and I could not find anything to suit. If I Have measured correctly my wheel diameter is 30.20 mm, and the length of the arbor is 30.20 mm. I am assuming the arbor length is measured from one shoulder to the other, ie. what is between the two plates, and the wheel is measured from the outside of the teeth.
Pat.
 

Rod Schaffter

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Thanks for the link. The picture shown is not what I need, so I checked their other listings, and I could not find anything to suit. If I Have measured correctly my wheel diameter is 30.20 mm, and the length of the arbor is 30.20 mm. I am assuming the arbor length is measured from one shoulder to the other, ie. what is between the two plates, and the wheel is measured from the outside of the teeth.
Pat.
As I noted, the picture is generic, used for other wheels in their store, but given the difference in arbor length, it's academic... :(
 

technitype

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True, but it was worth a try.
...if it was my clock- I'd try to soft solder the arbor and wheel back together- there is a type of soft solder that is 62% tin, 36% lead, and 2% silver- and this works beautifully!!!

I must warn you: be doggone careful that excess solder doesn't run down the pinion leaves!!!

You'd be a lot better off if you can find somebody who knows what they are doing-!!
 

rpbpaul

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Jul 19, 2020
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...if it was my clock- I'd try to soft solder the arbor and wheel back together- there is a type of soft solder that is 62% tin, 36% lead, and 2% silver- and this works beautifully!!!

I must warn you: be doggone careful that excess solder doesn't run down the pinion leaves!!!

You'd be a lot better off if you can find somebody who knows what they are doing-!!
...if it was my clock- I'd try to soft solder the arbor and wheel back together- there is a type of soft solder that is 62% tin, 36% lead, and 2% silver- and this works beautifully!!!

I must warn you: be doggone careful that excess solder doesn't run down the pinion leaves!!!

You'd be a lot better off if you can find somebody who knows what they are doing-!!
Hi. Thank you for the advise. I tried to solder the wheel to the shaft but it did not work.
I did solve the problem though.
I drilled a hole the size of the shaft in a heavy piece of metal and put this in the vise, I placed the longer side of the shaft into the hole. I then drilled a hole up through a punch with a slight chamfer at the end, I put this over the short end of the shaft and a few light taps of a hammer (checking it with each tap) tightened the metal back over the brass.
I put the clock back together and gave it one wind for a test, it worked ok, and is running just fine for the past month. I hope you can make sense of what I have described.
I want to thank all who tried to help me with this.
 

technitype

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Feb 19, 2012
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Hi. Thank you for the advise. I tried to solder the wheel to the shaft but it did not work.
I did solve the problem though.
I drilled a hole the size of the shaft in a heavy piece of metal and put this in the vise, I placed the longer side of the shaft into the hole. I then drilled a hole up through a punch with a slight chamfer at the end, I put this over the short end of the shaft and a few light taps of a hammer (checking it with each tap) tightened the metal back over the brass.
I put the clock back together and gave it one wind for a test, it worked ok, and is running just fine for the past month. I hope you can make sense of what I have described.
I want to thank all who tried to help me with this.
...actually, you'd have to solder the pinion to the wheel-!!
 

rpbpaul

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Jul 19, 2020
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I probably did not explain myself properly, that is what I tried to do, but it did not work.
 

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