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William Johnsons Pebworth fecit 30 hour longcase 18th Century

Jezster18

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Hello,
here are some pictures of a longcase which we bought today, I wonder if it's a quaker dial?

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JTD

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I may be wrong, but to me the town looks like Falmouth, not Pebworth. Also I think the name is Johnson, not Johnsons; the curl at the end is just a flourish, not another 's'.

But the photo is not very clear, so others may know better.

JTD
 

Jezster18

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I may be wrong, but to me the town looks like Falmouth, not Pebworth. Also I think the name is Johnson, not Johnsons; the curl at the end is just a flourish, not another 's'.

But the photo is not very clear, so others may know better.

JTD
Thank you, I've found a William Johnson at Pebworth, the writing is very faint due to someone in the past polishing the dial, I can't find him in Baillies or my old book by Brian Loomes, I will try to get a better picture put up. Kind regards for your reply
 

novicetimekeeper

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Unusual dial and unusual clock. You don't see many English posted frames with iron top and bottom plates. What wood is the case?
 

Jezster18

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Hi, The case looks to be oak the early dark red colour with some medulary rays, I think the backboard which is amazingly in one piece is Elm though with the look of the grain, I don't know why yet but it's a yellow colour inside on the backboard, a kind of mustard colour, the baluster pillars and the hood door are very dark though nearly black,
The dial appears to me to be quaker, the squares are an Algebra sign I beleive & form an octagon on the corners, the engraving is wheatear & the crown & cherub spandrels have replaced something else? 4 other holes.
Pebworth is not far from Deddington where I beleive some of the Gilkes family worked from.
I don't know if you noticed, but at sometime the iron piece for the anchor arbor on the top front has been replaced with brass with some washers to bring it to the correct height & you can see a screw inside the works with a brass nut.
It does run, but I'm not running it yet, as the steel suspension is rusted & full of pin prick holes.
I haven't had much time to examine it today, I bought it from a retired antiques dealer & he just said 18th century.
thank you for asking, i hope to examine it more closely tomorrow.
 

jmclaugh

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Interesting dial (what size is it?) and movement. I can't find a William Johnson in Pebworth or Falmouth in my sources, However google reveals Bonhams have a two handed brass dial 30 hour longcase by a William Johnson of Pebworth dated early 18th C, so I'd say the same man.
 
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JTD

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Yes, now that I am looking at the signature in daylight and enlarged as much as I can, I see that I was wrong. It is Pebworth, not Falmouth.

JTD
 
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Jezster18

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Yes, now that I am looking at the signature in daylight and enlarged as much as I can, I see that I was wrong. It is Pebworth, not Falmouth.

JTD
Thank you, I appreciate any input, I found out that William Johnson was married in March 1676 to Margaret Reason in Pebworth.
 

Mike Phelan

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FWIW, Pebworth is a small village on Worcestershire in England.
Interesting to see that's a posted frame, as generally they were from the south (like ours) or east side f England.
 
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Jezster18

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FWIW, Pebworth is a small village on Worcestershire in England.
Interesting to see that's a posted frame, as generally they were from the south (like ours) or east side f England.
I thought the same when I looked at it, especially as Brian Loomes as usually said that posted movements were made in the South, the dial & works appear to fit together as they should & even to the seatboard which is old & has a piece cut out so the square nut under the bottom plate fits exactly where it should, it also fits into the case cheeks perfectly. I cannot see any signs of tampering to make it fit, & the case is very similar to the one that Bonhams describe, to the william Johnson that they sold. i'm going to hopefully dig deeper into doing some research & i will most probably go to Pebworth when the weather picks up & see if I can find William in the churchyard, as I know he was married there in 1676.
I wonder if he was a Blacksmith?
 

novicetimekeeper

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Remember Brian lives in Pateley Bridge, to him Worcester IS south.

There were lantern clock makers in Worcester, posted frame clocks are usually found coming from places where there was a history of lantern clock manufacture.
 
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Jezster18

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Mike Phelan's post made me inquisitive, so I've taken the dial off to see if everything fits as it should, there are no inscriptions or practce engraving on the rear of the chapter ring, the pins holding the chapter ring onto the dial are hand cut & square edges (not round like modern ones.
The two fixings for the dial to the works are exact fit, a small round peg at the bottom & a plate for the screw at the top, no other holes that could locate a different works. I've not seen an anchor shape like this one before, how it curves on both sides.
I'm no expert, so I've put pictures up for you to see.

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Jezster18

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Remember Brian lives in Pateley Bridge, to him Worcester IS south.

There were lantern clock makers in Worcester, posted frame clocks are usually found coming from places where there was a history of lantern clock manufacture.
I've been to his farmhouse, when we sold him our lantern clock, It was like being in a museum with the amount of lantern clocks, It was a trip for us up north as we are near to the Peak District, so we would be southerners to Brian (lol)
It was the centre engraving that attracted us, as it's very similar to a Lantern Clock dial, thanks NoviceTime keeper for your reply
 

Jezster18

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I think it looks like it's ready for a good clean, I've never took one of these apart before, is it easy enough to do?
I also want to resilver the dial, would the centre engraving be silvered or left brass please.
 

Mike Phelan

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I've been to his farmhouse, when we sold him our lantern clock, It was like being in a museum with the amount of lantern clocks, It was a trip for us up north as we are near to the Peak District, so we would be southerners to Brian (lol)
It was the centre engraving that attracted us, as it's very similar to a Lantern Clock dial, thanks NoviceTime keeper for your reply
The pallets are very similar to mine, except that it looks if the one on the left is slightly bent, but that might just be the picture.
I'm sure that everything is original.
Silvering on the centre of the dial is interesting and doe look original. For me, i could only polish the outside of the dial and just wash the dial with IPA or petrol (outside!).
Dismantling and cleaning isn't too difficult and is probably easier than a plate and pillar movement.
As you're not too far away from me, feel free if you want to come and have a look at my clock.
 
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Jezster18

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The pallets are very similar to mine, except that it looks if the one on the left is slightly bent, but that might just be the picture.
I'm sure that everything is original.
Silvering on the centre of the dial is interesting and doe look original. For me, i could only polish the outside of the dial and just wash the dial with IPA or petrol (outside!).
Dismantling and cleaning isn't too difficult and is probably easier than a plate and pillar movement.
As you're not too far away from me, feel free if you want to come and have a look at my clock.
Hi Mike, thank you for your reply, & the invite to see your clock, It would be nice to accept your invitation if we can sort out a mutual day by PM.
i remember when I was registered on the NAWWC a few years ago, you offering to help out another member to mend their clock.
 

Jezster18

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Well, after dismantling the works, I thought they were covered in old brown oil.
I was wrong, whoever dismantled it before, had actually bushed the clock, cleaned the brasswork & lacquered or varnished all of the brass.
They must have also been responsible for painting everything else black on all of the steel.
I've left the black, but it's been a journey cleaning the brass & it was on every part.
i've put it back together & I am a little disappointed, as the drive wheel is missing to turn the count wheel (see pictures) If anyone knows where I can get one from, I would appreciate it. Thank you for all of your replies & likes.
At least it's clean & back in it's case

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DeanT

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I think you are referring to the pinion of report. There are plenty of shops which offer a cutting service to make a new one. It's no big deal.
 
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novicetimekeeper

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I've always loved that name, and even better when it is cut into the end of the arbour like a little castellated turret.
 
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Jezster18

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A big thank you to Dean T & novicetimekeeper
I honestly didn't know what it was called, never too old to learn.
I'm finished with this thread now, no more to say, so a sigh of releif from you all, I should imagine.
seriously though thank you for all of the help.
:thumb::thumb::thumb:
 

DeanT

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I've always loved that name, and even better when it is cut into the end of the arbour like a little castellated turret.
You taught me that name....I had one cut by Peter Holtby many years ago.
 

gmorse

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Hi Nick,
I've always loved that name, and even better when it is cut into the end of the arbour like a little castellated turret.
Yes, so do I, it's one easy way to make a pinion of four, which would otherwise be very difficult to make work as a conventional pinion. It acts more like a lantern pinion. This one's from a clock-watch but the principle is the same.

DSC01064.JPG

Regards,

Graham
 
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DeanT

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Here's one integrated into the end of the arbour from an early clock.

1641810202648.jpeg
 
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Jezster18

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Thank you again, I've followed Dean T advice & found a clock wheel cutting service in derbyshire Uk.
I will be calling them to find out how to proceed.
I saw one on the internet, bt it was sold, it had 8 leaves & a square cut in the centre, so that it will fit over the square on the back of my clock.
By the way I beleive this clock should be on rope, rather than chain, it's got a wood pulley wheel & it's terrible to pull the chain to wind it, The main wheels look more like spikes, so I'm going to buy the rope & try it out.
They mention pinion of report on their website, I can sound fancy when I speak to people now ;-)
 
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Jezster18

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Thank you again Dean T & novicetimekeeper.
I sent a question to a seller on ebay & he has made me a 8 leaves brass pinion of report & kindly drilled a centre hole, so I can cut out a square.
I can hear the clock chime correctly now.
Thank you for the advice, it's appreciated.
 
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novicetimekeeper

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You do get wooden pulleys with chain but they need the correct profile. We can't see yours but it does look like it might have been cut for rope. You will need spikes with points to dig into the rope, chain drive spikes tend to be shorter and blunt

A lot of clocks were converted to chain, but chain was usually a more expensive option from new.
 
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Mike Phelan

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Pulleys on great wheels with cutouts between the spikes were originally chain drive or were converted from rope, usually in Victorian times by either replacing the pulleys or modifying the existing ones.
 
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