Will an Waltham 1860 fit into an 1872 case?

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Lorne, Nov 24, 2015.

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  1. Lorne

    Lorne Registered User

    Jul 31, 2008
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    Hello All,

    Will a Waltham 16 size 1860 fit into a case for an Waltham 16 size 1872?


    Lorne
     
  2. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
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    I have no idea, but I say there are so many wonderful top notch 1872s around it would be a better idea to case a 1872 in a spare case...
    It could make a wonderful 'proper' watch :)
     
  3. Lorne

    Lorne Registered User

    Jul 31, 2008
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    Maybe there are a lot around in Poland...

    I'm also have a ex-wife in my collection, which limits my budget.
     
  4. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
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    Come on, there are quite a lot nicely finished 1872s to get. Actually they are easier to get uncased than cased. I'd not case anything other than an 1872 in a model 1872 case. Truly, an empty 1872 is a scarce, desirable thing :)
     
  5. Rhett Lucke

    Rhett Lucke Board Secretary
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    Feb 18, 2001
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    Isn't an 1860 a keywind movement and an 1872 stemwind?

    Two completely different cases.
     
  6. Lorne

    Lorne Registered User

    Jul 31, 2008
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    I'm not looking for an 1872, I'm got an 1860 and need a case!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Umm, you might have a point there.
     
  7. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
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    Finding a case for early 16s keywind movement is difficult. If you're lucky, you'll find a busted, practically irrepairable (missing plates for example) 1860 in a case. But it's not just ypou who needs one, so you'll have to put up a fight. I don't think finding an 1872 case is any easier than finding an 1860 case. It's usually a part of a whole good watch.
    If the seller knows it's an 1872 or 1860 case, the price will be high. If the seller doesn't know... how will you (or I) know:???: There is a hope one might get one by chance, but it would take buying terrible amounts of empty cases to finally find the right one ;)
     
  8. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    Jul 15, 2009
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    Superficially, the two are similar in size but there are a LOT of differences between the two. It would be a shame to wreck a 72 case(which is not easy to find) to make poor approximation of an 1860-not to mention that you'd have to butcher the case to cut winding holes.

    As a long time collector of both 1860 and 1872 models, the best advice I can give you is that if you want cased watches then buy cased watches. Reasonably priced cased 1860s are out there. I've bought two in the past month-both Am'n grades in silver and both very reasonably priced.

    I'll also mention that anyone who's been by my table at a regional and sat down has probably seen me pull out trays of '72 model movements-there just aren't enough cases to go around, but it doesn't stop me from buying interesting movements.
     
  9. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I believe the pillar plate of a Model 1872 is larger (roughly about a 17 Size) than that of a Model 1860, so an M60 movement would fit rather poorly in an M72 case, completely aside from the empty lever slot and likely misaligned extra case screw marks. And then, you might need to drill a second hole in the case to receive the locating pin, as it likely is not properly aligned for an M60 movement (or even worse, remove the pin from the movement), and you would still need to lift the dust cover whenever you wanted to either wind or set the watch, unless you wanted to drill two holes in the dust cover! All in all, putting an M60 movement in an M72 case is a really lousy idea.
     
  10. topspin

    topspin Registered User

    Dec 14, 2014
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    Just to agree with the above posters... if you could wave a magic wand and conjure up a boatload of 1872 cases, they should be used to rehouse all the uncased 1872s.

    It does seem likely to me that you could get an 1860 to fit in a case intended for some other model... the result would likely look a bit odd ; some collectors would likely think it looked awful. But it would be better than no case, and no worse than any of the other little disasters we see offered for online auction.
     
  11. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Feb 11, 2005
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    I've got to disagree. Unless a proper case can be found, enjoy the movement as it is. (Or, sell it if you can't enjoy it and look for a cased example.) A movement stuffed into an improper case can easily be worse than no case at all!
     
  12. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    Clint-I just checked-by way of comparing two partials in my bench "junk drawer"-and the pillar plates of the 72 and 60 have the same dimensions in terms of the "lip" diameter, diameter below the "lip", and thickness.
     
  13. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

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    that's a tough subject... I've stuffed my 16s USWCo (unrecasable) into an 18s case... Looks horrible from the back and very well from the front side. And I still don't know if I like it or not ;)
     
  14. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I stand corrected. However, I seem to recall there is one important dimension that is different. Perhaps it is the top plate?
     
  15. GD1

    GD1 Registered User

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    I recently bought a bunch of stuff from an old watchmakers estate and there was an empty sterling HC case marked with an old tag that said "For 16s Waltham keywind, bringing movement" but is has a Birmingham mark so not sure if it is for a Waltham or not. Apparently the guy never brought the movement. Ha.
     
  16. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    OK. I looked into it. The Model 1872 pillar plate is larger than 16 Size, like I thought. However, what I had forgotten was that the Model 1860 pillar plate is also larger than 16 Size, and has the same diameter as the Model 1872. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  17. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Guys, let's not forget of the other ways to house an uncased movement. Now granted,
    I don't own a 72, but an old nickel glass back can do wonders for the soul. Keith

    how2a.jpg
     
  18. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    I believe I may have a solution to the OP's problem... What you need is a broken J G Graves, like one of these. This dial with this movement appears to be quite plentiful. So far I am on 2 out of 2 for finding that a Waltham 16s Traveler movement fits into these cases just nicely. So I assume an 1860 or similar would too.

    (Yes, i know, a Traveler is a stemwind. I'm just using a random handy 16s movement for sizing.)

    DSCN8401.JPG DSCN8402.JPG
     

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