Wightman & Sperry Ogee

[George Pins]

Here is an early Ogee I've acquired with a movement I know nothing about and have never seen in an Ogee, a weight arrangement I've never seen in an Ogee, and a label with little information available. Help, please: 1. Note the pulleys mounted above the case and the extra set of pulleys inside the case. How to set this up and mount the weights? 2. I believe this is a rack and snail time side movement. Is it complete except for the missing verge? How to adjust it? 3. Is this maker a predecessor to Sperry & Shaw of New York? The label is pasted over a blank page that has the dimensions of a full-size label. 4. Note the mother-of-pearl escutcheon. George Pins

 

[Jim DuBois]

Well, you have a version of Salem Bridge clock. In ogees these tend to be at the higher ends of values, you are most fortunate! Congratulations!

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Henry Sperry and Allen S. Wightman were in business at 204 Bowery, NYC, in 1837 and 1838. It was, in that sense, a predecessor to Sperry & (George L.) Shaw, which operated in the 1840's until about 1850. Chris Bailey's and Dana Blackwell's NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 13 on Salem Bridge shelf clocks has a bit on the Wightman and Sperry on page 71. (The link takes a while to download).

 

[Steven Thornberry]

The movement in your clock looks very like that in my Spencer & Wooster Salem Bridge: Spencer & Wooster & Co. | NAWCC Forums . Though they seem to have been some later (184-3-44), it is thought that they purchased their movements from Richard Ward (1832-45). So, the movement in your clock may be a Ward movement.

 

[George Pins]

Henry Sperry and Allen S. Wightman were in business at 204 Bowery, NYC, in 1837 and 1838. It was, in that sense, a predecessor to Sperry & (George L.) Shaw, which operated in the 1840's until about 1850. Chris Bailey's and Dana Blackwell's NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 13 on Salem Bridge shelf clocks has a bit on the Wightman and Sperry on page 71. (The link takes a while to download).]

Thank you, Steve. I see that W&S are just briefly listed as "other" Salem Bridge makers. I have located and purchased a copy of the Bulletin Supplement, which should answer my other questions, based on a perusal of the downloaded version. With this much info, I like to have a hard copy in hand, rather than flip pages on a screen. George

 

[Steven Thornberry]

With this much info, I like to have a hard copy in hand, rather than flip pages on a screen. George

I agree. I also have the hard copy. A good read but, IMO, too complex for the flip-book version.

BTW, on a compound pulley set up, the cords go around the pulleys in the grooves both inside and out. The weights hang from the hooks of the internal pulleys.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Here is an early Ogee I've acquired with a movement I know nothing about and have never seen in an Ogee, a weight arrangement I've never seen in an Ogee, and a label with little information available. Help, please: 1. Note the pulleys mounted above the case and the extra set of pulleys inside the case. How to set this up and mount the weights? 2. I believe this is a rack and snail time side movement. Is it complete except for the missing verge? How to adjust it? 3. Is this maker a predecessor to Sperry & Shaw of New York? The label is pasted over a blank page that has the dimensions of a full-size label. 4. Note the mother-of-pearl escutcheon. George Pins View attachment 634948 View attachment 634944 View attachment 634945 View attachment 634946 View attachment 634947

Desirable clock. If there was an ogee royalty, this would be part of the family.

Chris Bailey and Blackwell's supplement is a good place to look. For those interested, here's a link:

Log In

pubs.nawcc.org

I think I stumbled across your clock on eBay twice.

Look very carefully @ the seatboard. I may be confused (not unusual), but my recollection was it may have been replaced. I suspect glass is, too?

I think the escutcheon is bone, not MOP.

Yes, the pullies are mounted above the case. That's how they're mounted on my Heman Clark shelf clock (if I ever get it back from servicing, I will post pix). Granted, a much earlier version of these clocks.

Yes, it's rack and snail, and the weights are compounded hence the additional pullies in the case.

It's the late version of that movement.

RM

 

[George Pins]

Desirable clock. If there was an ogee royalty, this would be part of the family.

Chris Bailey and Blackwell's supplement is a good place to look. For those interested, here's a link:

Log In

pubs.nawcc.org

I think I stumbled across your clock on eBay twice.

Look very carefully @ the seatboard. I may be confused (not unusual), but my recollection was it may have been replaced. I suspect glass is, too?

I think the escutcheon is bone, not MOP.

Yes, the pullies are mounted above the case. That's how they're mounted on my Heman Clark shelf clock (if I ever get it back from servicing, I will post pix). Granted, a much earlier version of these clocks.

Yes, it's rack and snail, and the weights are compounded hence the additional pullies in the case.

It's the late version of that movement.

RM

Desirable clock. If there was an ogee royalty, this would be part of the family.

Chris Bailey and Blackwell's supplement is a good place to look. For those interested, here's a link:

Log In

pubs.nawcc.org

I think I stumbled across your clock on eBay twice.

Look very carefully @ the seatboard. I may be confused (not unusual), but my recollection was it may have been replaced. I suspect glass is, too?

I think the escutcheon is bone, not MOP.

Yes, the pullies are mounted above the case. That's how they're mounted on my Heman Clark shelf clock (if I ever get it back from servicing, I will post pix). Granted, a much earlier version of these clocks.

Yes, it's rack and snail, and the weights are compounded hence the additional pullies in the case.

It's the late version of that movement.

RM

Mr. Markowitz - Thanks for your thoughts. To respond: 1. Clock came out of a general antiques auction, not Ebay. I have no idea of prior history. 2. Seatboard does not look replaced to me, and looks to have been intact with the movement for a long time. Movement, as received, is oxidized on the brass and rusty on the steel pieces, including the J hooks holding the seatboard. 3. Dial glass is not wavy, not puttied in, likely a replacement. 4. Tablet is period-old, I think, but likely not original as it is held in place by wood strips, not puttied, and there is evidence of scraping to remove original putty. 5. Escutcheon may be bone, as you say, not MOP, even though it is shiny and polished, because it is not iridescent to my eye. 6. Is there anything special about the missing pallet or verge for this type movement, or should I just try to fit what I can find? George

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Mr. Markowitz - Thanks for your thoughts. To respond: 1. Clock came out of a general antiques auction, not Ebay. I have no idea of prior history. 2. Seatboard does not look replaced to me, and looks to have been intact with the movement for a long time. Movement, as received, is oxidized on the brass and rusty on the steel pieces, including the J hooks holding the seatboard. 3. Dial glass is not wavy, not puttied in, likely a replacement. 4. Tablet is period-old, I think, but likely not original as it is held in place by wood strips, not puttied, and there is evidence of scraping to remove original putty. 5. Escutcheon may be bone, as you say, not MOP, even though it is shiny and polished, because it is not iridescent to my eye. 6. Is there anything special about the missing pallet or verge for this type movement, or should I just try to fit what I can find? George

Fair enough. I was mistaken.

In fact, I found the OTHER ogee that I was thinking of that's still up for auction on eBay so I cannot link to it.

What threw me was that one is ALSO a Wightman and Sperry! How often do 2 of these show up almost simultaneously?

That one has a replaced seatboard.

My apologies.

I did find that your clock sold through Forsythe's 9/2/13, lot 277.

It's on Live Auctioneers.

What do you think about the dial?

One sold through Schmidt Horan in 2014 with a seconds bit.

RM

 

[George Pins]

Fair enough. I was mistaken.

In fact, I found the OTHER ogee that I was thinking of that's still up for auction on eBay so I cannot link to it.

What threw me was that one is ALSO a Wightman and Sperry! How often do 2 of these show up almost simultaneously?

That one has a replaced seatboard.

My apologies.

I did find that your clock sold through Forsythe's 9/2/13, lot 277.

It's on Live Auctioneers.

What do you think about the dial?

One sold through Schmidt Horan in 2014 with a seconds bit.

RM

Mr. Markowitz - 1. Looked up the Forsythe's lot, that's it, all right, too bad that between then and me it has lost its hands, weights, verge, pendulum, and key. 2. Can't locate the Ebay item you are referring to. What is the Ebay number or exact item description? 3. As to the dial, the only doubt as to original or refinished would be "too good to be original." If refinished, it's a damn good job. Since the dial is held by horizontal wood strips at the top and bottom, there is no wear to look for where there would have been the more usual steel pins at the four corners. GP

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Mr. Markowitz - 1. Looked up the Forsythe's lot, that's it, all right, too bad that between then and me it has lost its hands, weights, verge, pendulum, and key. 2. Can't locate the Ebay item you are referring to. What is the Ebay number or exact item description? 3. As to the dial, the only doubt as to original or refinished would be "too good to be original." If refinished, it's a damn good job. Since the dial is held by horizontal wood strips at the top and bottom, there is no wear to look for where there would have been the more usual steel pins at the four corners. GP

Mr. Pins,

H'mm. Says that the listing was ended due to an error so I guess it's okay to provide a link to the ended listing. If I'm incorrect, Forums rules would dictate its removal. Here it is:

RARE 1830's WIGHTMAN AND SPERRY SALEM BRIDGE SHELF CLOCK | eBay

Look @ the label in that clock. The address portion of the label, "No. 204 Bowery" is clear without an overpaste.

This is the one I had in mind and that confused me in my 1st posting.

Here's an additional example from Schmitt Horan auctioned in 4/27/14 lot # 766:

5549_01.jpg (1116×1826) (schmitt-horan.com)

5549_02.jpg (1178×1170) (schmitt-horan.com)

5549_03.jpg (1214×606) (schmitt-horan.com)

The hands are described as period replacements.

This is the one with the seconds bit. In my experience sometimes the Salem Bridges have them, sometimes not.

Also note the label. Looks like yours once had an area of overpaste over the No. 204 Bowery. The Schmitt-Horan still has it's overpaste in place.

Interesting. I guess they moved, continued to use the labels on hand just using a bit of paper to cover the former address. I've seen stuff like that before.

RM

 

[Steven Thornberry]

H'mm. Says that the listing was ended due to an error so I guess it's okay to provide a link to the ended listing. If I'm incorrect, Forums rules would dictate its removal. Here it is:

The link leads to an item that is described as no longer available. I’ll let it stand.

 

[George Pins]

The link leads to an item that is described as no longer available. I’ll let it stand.

Mr. Pins,

H'mm. Says that the listing was ended due to an error so I guess it's okay to provide a link to the ended listing. If I'm incorrect, Forums rules would dictate its removal. Here it is:

RARE 1830's WIGHTMAN AND SPERRY SALEM BRIDGE SHELF CLOCK | eBay

Look @ the label in that clock. The address portion of the label, "No. 204 Bowery" is clear without an overpaste.

This is the one I had in mind and that confused me in my 1st posting.

Here's an additional example from Schmitt Horan auctioned in 4/27/14 lot # 766:

5549_01.jpg (1116×1826) (schmitt-horan.com)

5549_02.jpg (1178×1170) (schmitt-horan.com)

5549_03.jpg (1214×606) (schmitt-horan.com)

The hands are described as period replacements.

This is the one with the seconds bit. In my experience sometimes the Salem Bridges have them, sometimes not.

Also note the label. Looks like yours once had an area of overpaste over the No. 204 Bowery. The Schmitt-Horan still has it's overpaste in place.

Interesting. I guess they moved, continued to use the labels on hand just using a bit of paper to cover the former address. I've seen stuff like that before.

RM

Mr. Markowitz - Three different dials on the three examples of this "rare" ogee we've revealed, and also looks like three different keyhole escutcheons. The "replaced" seatboard is not the same outline as mine, as well. Wonder if the movements are identical? This, to me, is part of the fun of the hobby. GP

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Mr. Markowitz - Three different dials on the three examples of this "rare" ogee we've revealed, and also looks like three different keyhole escutcheons. The "replaced" seatboard is not the same outline as mine, as well. Wonder if the movements are identical? This, to me, is part of the fun of the hobby. GP

Mr.Pins,

Why so formal?

Yes, it is part of the fun. I suspect unlike, most ogee’s that were mass produced, they were made in fewer #’s & the cases were made as needed, I suppose by that firm. Not a great leap from an ogee molded picture or mirror frame to a case. Basically adding a door on the front, a box to the back.

RM

 

[George Pins]

Mr.Pins,

Why so formal?

Yes, it is part of the fun. I suspect unlike, most ogee’s that were mass produced, they were made in fewer #’s & the cases were made as needed, I suppose by that firm. Not a great leap from an ogee molded picture or mirror frame to a case. Basically adding a door on the front, a box to the back.

RM

Mr. Markowitz - No excess formality intended, just don't know your first name. Mr.M. and all others following this thread: My once-agile but now kinda stiff and clumsy fingers always have a very hard time, punctuated by spurts of profanity, trying to assemble a Jerome-patent ogee movement after disassembly and cleaning in the ultrasound, because of those wire levers. I photographed this Salem Bridge movement, took it apart, cleaned it, and, because there are none of those pesky levers, reassembled it in about fifteen minutes, with no profanity. We'll see how the timekeeping is once I add the verge, but so far, I vote for Salem Bridge in the "user-friendly" category. George