Why won't my Stromberg Model No. 45 run?

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by MQ32shooter, Jul 4, 2015.

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  1. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Jus purchased it at the National in Chattanooga and the seller stated it was running just fine. Well the suspension spring was broken first off. Replaced it was a ST No. 2 spring. I think it's ok and not my problem as to why it won't run. It's been converted to 110 v. Has a voltage regulator on it and the seller said it ran just fine at 9 volts. Well, I've messed with it on different voltages from 1.5 v up to 12 v. Problem is, the spring won't wind. I can wind it manually. Spring appears to be fine. I watch the rotary pawl on the escape wheel raise a set of contacts every minute. Sometimes when the pawl raises the contacts, I get a click, clunk on the lower right side of the movement. I can see them move, but I don't know what to call them. However, throughout all of this, the spring never winds. What should I look for? Bear in mind, I know absolutely nothing about electric movements. Thanks in advance for any help. Stromberg movemrnt.jpg Left side.jpg Spring in Stromberg.jpg Stromberg relay.jpg Top wiring Stromberg.jpg
     
  2. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Prewind the movement by pushing the clapper on the magnet in and out until it is fully wound up. If it still won't keep running, you may have a power, or escapement problem.
    Both of my Stromberg masters run on 24 volts DC, but I can't say they all do.
     
  3. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    MQ32shooter wrote in part: "It's been converted to 110 v." 'Has a voltage regulator on it and the seller said it just fine at 9 volts.

    The "seller said" needs qualification. Is the seller the prior owner and or the owner who converted the Stromberg 45 so as to operate on 110v?

    Was the clock designed to operate from a direct current of 10 volts DC or 20 volts DC? Is the "converter" an actual voltage regulator capable of supply sufficient current or amperes?

    Your symptom suggests a simple AC to DC low current transformer/rectifier with a series resistance used to vary voltage output.

    Sometimes these "one-size-fits-all" simple converters are satisfactory substitutes but not always unless carefully selected and engineered for the job.

     
  4. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Min contact.jpg Rdgulator.jpg Top left.jpg Top of Stromberg.jpg Top Right.jpg Voltage.jpg Wind.jpg Ok Les and Harold. Here's what I know and more photos. The seller of the clock stated that he had owned it for a couple of years, however a "friend" converted it. I know on the coil (?) it says 20 volts, however as I noted earlier, he said it had been running at the 9 volt setting. I have my doubts. I've attached photos of the way the "converter/regulator" is set at 9 volts, however I've tried every setting on it and no luck. I also attached two photos of Stromberg tags on top of the clock. Not sure they mean anything to ya'll.
     
  5. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Mine also say 20 volts but are quite happy running on 24 volts DC. If you have a 24 volt power supply on any of your other clocks, give it a try here.
     
  6. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    No sir, don't have any electric clocks other than this one and New York Clock Co. one I picked up recently that I've yet to try and make work. Can I go to any electric supply house and buy a 24 volt power supply?
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I haven't sourced one for a while. I know Ken at Ken's Clock Clinic carries a pulser that will run your clock off a battery pack. That would save you the need to be close to a wall plug. I used one of these to run a slave time recorder I overhauled a few years ago. Worked great.
     
  8. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Ok, I'll check with him. I just put a plug on the wall where I had planned on hanging it.:rolleyes: I hope that's the fix for it. Hate to keep throwing good money after bad on this thing.
     
  9. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    Many laptop computers made since about 1980 use 19.2 volt power adapters that have an output current capacity of more than 3 amps and are closely regulated so as to supply their continuous designed voltage and current output. They generally have a long useful life long after the laptop computer is obsolete.

    They can be found occasionally at thrift shops for a couple of dollars as well as bought new as "generic" with the co-axial plug on the end of the output cord having one of a variety of different form-factor male coaxial plugs made for a specific brand of laptop.

    If you have determined that your Stromberg 45 is one designed for use with a 20 volt DC source, I believe the 19.2 Volt DC laptop AC adapter would suffice and work well knowing that the master clock uses only a small current briefly once a minute. The laptop computer power adapter won't know the difference between its rated service load and the minute impulse needed to maintain the clock's mainspring winder.

    You would likely have to locate a mating connector which could be a challenge since there's no more "Radio Shack" supply. You can carefully cut the male connector off and bare the two wires usually found inside the putput cord. The center wire is the positive output. The wire braid wrapped around the central positive wire is the negative output. Don't be surprised when cutting the cord to see a little spark as the internal energy storage capacitor inside the adapter can often store a small voltage for several days with no input power.

    If you choose to use one of these 19.2 volt laptop power adapters for general use, make absolutely certain that you include a series fuse in the circuit because these laptop power adapters cannot sustain a dead-short circuit and will die a sudden death if short circuited. Some auto-parts stores have in-line fuse holders which are satisfactory for this purpose.
     
  10. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    I'm with Les. I don't think a 1/2 amp supply at 9 volts is
    enough to run the winding coil.
    Also, those switched wall warts are not regulated. They
    just switch the taps on the transformer.
    I'd go with Les' suggestion.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  11. flynwill

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  12. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    OK, just spoke with the technical folks at Digi-Key about the type of power supply I need. They confused me with all of their questions. I think what I need to know is the amperage I need. Is it 3? Also, if it is 3 amps, do I need 24 volts or will 12 or 15 volts work. The young man gave me a bunch of options and cautioned me from over buying if I did not need the 24 volt set up. So, is it 24 volts at 3 amps? I know I'm a pain with all of these questions, but I really do appreciate everyone's time.
     
  13. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    You should get something rated at over 20 volts. It needs to be DC voltage. Three amps would be enough to run it.
     
  14. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Got it. Thanks again Harold.
     
  15. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    A three amp 24v supply from Digi-key will be quite expensive.
    I think you are much better served by getting a supply as Les
    mentioned. It will be a fraction of the cost.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  16. flynwill

    flynwill Registered User
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    And also 3 Amp at 24 volts seems like an awful lot of power (72 watts) to run a clock. That's why I was asking about the resistance of the wind coil. A much wimpier supply and a large capacitor might be the better option.
     
  17. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Flynwill, don't have any type of a volt meter to measure resistance. Not much of a tech guy. Man, I called that Didgi group and it's going to cost about 75 bucks for that 24 volt 3 amp setup. I did as Les suggested, tried to find an old laptop charger. Only one I could find was a 12 volt, 3 amp set up. It did not work. Still looking for an older laptop charger that is 19 volts and 3 amps as Les noted. Might end up having to bite the bullet and order a new charger. I just hope it fixes the darn thing. A buddy of mine told me I paid $200 too much for the clock already. Live and learn I guess.:mad:
     
  18. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    I just looked on eBay. New 19.2 Volt 3.42 amps brand new for less than ten dollars. If you use the search option and specify less than fifty miles from your zip code, you'll likely find a local re -seller near Garland TX.

    As far as the price you paid and the fact that the seller wasn't truthful about the converter working "just fine at 9 volts"; the Strombergs are fine master clocks and the cases are a cut above the others.

    Forgive the seller for his misgivings.....just remember the SOB's name and face. :cyclops:
     
  19. Tinker Dwight

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    The problem is that it doesn't require the continuous power, just the pulse
    current.
    A large capacitor would help but it would need to be quite large. Getting a supply like
    Les' has suggested is the way to go.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  20. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Ask the seller, a NAWCC member, for your money back!
     
  21. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Les, thanks for the heads up on the eBay power supply. I'll look into that now. I know the clock is beautiful and I'm sure of very good quality. Once I get it up and running, I'll forget about all of the problems. Dick, it is concerning that an NAWCC member would mislead anyone, especially another member. But, I'm going to deal with the issues and just move on. But, as Les said, I won't forget what he looks like. Heck, I've even got his phone number. But, it's just not worth the aggravation to call him out. Unless, this new power supply won't make it run. Then I'll give my "friend" a phone call.:D
     
  22. harold bain

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    It is difficult to put a realistic value on these. One of mine has been hanging on my wall since the early 1970's. It is housed in a Seth Thomas Regulator # 71 case, which would have a book value of $5,500 if it had a Seth Thomas movement. Stromberg and Seth Thomas were both owned by General Time when this clock was made. Post some pictures of the case yours is in. I'm sure you will get lots of enjoyment out of it once you have it up and running.
     

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  23. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Will do Harold. It's a plain golden oak case. the thing that caught my eye about it was the mercury pendulum. Since I bought it, I found out that the pendulum is incorrect as it came from a Self Winding Clock Company clock. I'm told that the Strombergs used a Waterbury 2 jar pendulum, except for the later Art Deco models which Stromberg put their own design on. I'm still ok with the thing, if I can get it to run without spending too much more on it. I'll post the photos once I put the dial back on it.
     

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