• Important Executive Director Announcement from the NAWCC

    The NAWCC Board of Directors is pleased to announce that Mr. Rory McEvoy has been named Executive Director of the NAWCC. Rory is an internationally renowned horological scholar and comes to the NAWCC with strong credentials that solidly align with our education, fundraising, and membership growth objectives. He has a postgraduate degree in the conservation and restoration of antique clocks from West Dean College, and throughout his career, he has had the opportunity to handle some of the world’s most important horological artifacts, including longitude timekeepers by Harrison, Kendall, and Mudge.

    Rory formerly worked as Curator of Horology at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, where his role included day-to-day management of research and digitization projects, writing, public speaking, conservation, convening conferences, exhibition work, and development of acquisition/disposal and collection care policies. In addition, he has worked as a horological specialist at Bonhams in London, where he cataloged and handled many rare timepieces and built important relationships with collectors, buyers, and sellers. Most recently, Rory has used his talents to share his love of horology at the university level by teaching horological theory, history, and the practical repair and making of clocks and watches at Birmingham City University.

    Rory is a British citizen and currently resides in the UK. Pre-COVID-19, Rory and his wife, Kaai, visited HQ in Columbia, Pennsylvania, where they met with staff, spent time in the Museum and Library & Research Center, and toured the area. Rory and Kaai will be relocating to the area as soon as the immigration challenges and travel restrictions due to COVID-19 permit.

    Some of you may already be familiar with Rory as he is also a well-known author and lecturer. His recent publications include the book Harrison Decoded: Towards a Perfect Pendulum Clock, which he edited with Jonathan Betts, and the article “George Graham and the Orrery” in the journal Nuncius.

    Until Rory’s relocation to the United States is complete, he will be working closely with an on-boarding team assembled by the NAWCC Board of Directors to introduce him to the opportunities and challenges before us and to ensure a smooth transition. Rory will be participating in strategic and financial planning immediately, which will allow him to hit the ground running when he arrives in Columbia

    You can read more about Rory McEvoy and this exciting announcement in the upcoming March/April issue of the Watch & Clock Bulletin.

    Please join the entire Board and staff in welcoming Rory to the NAWCC community.

Why no sales allowed on MB or NAWCC online?

new2clocks

NAWCC Member
Apr 25, 2005
3,047
426
83
Pennsylvania
Country
Region
Started to respond with Quote; however, decided not to.

I cannot find any way to delete this entry. Every time I come back to this thread I have this.

It appears at the bottom of the posts.

Why is it haunting me?
Others can speak to this issue in a more knowledgeable way, but I believe it is a function of the software. Once you begin to respond to a thread, the software keeps what you have typed so that you can walk away, come back and pick-up where you left off. After a period of time (one day ?), what you have written will go away.

Regards.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
45,538
1,634
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Started to respond with Quote; however, decided not to.

I cannot find any way to delete this entry. Every time I come back to this thread I have this.

It appears at the bottom of the posts.

Why is it haunting me?
It is persistent, but when you first go to the message box, there's a little "delete" box where you can delete the quote. Another way is to go ahead and let the quote appear in the message box, and then delete it without hitting "post reply". Either way, it will be gone for good ;)
 

new2clocks

NAWCC Member
Apr 25, 2005
3,047
426
83
Pennsylvania
Country
Region
It is persistent, but when you first go to the message box, there's a little "delete" box where you can delete the quote. Another way is to go ahead and let the quote appear in the message box, and then delete it without hitting "post reply". Either way, it will be gone for good ;)
Shutt - where is the delete box?

Thanks!
 

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
I found a "delete draft" when clicking on the floppy looking icon. However, this just deletes what you have typed. It doesn't appear to remove the post editting area.
 

new2clocks

NAWCC Member
Apr 25, 2005
3,047
426
83
Pennsylvania
Country
Region
Shutt - where is the delete box?
Found it!

It appears to be a 2 step process - Erase what you have written in the reply box and then click on the icon in the reply box that reads "Drafts" when you hover over it. Click on "delete drafts".

Another way is to go ahead and let the quote appear in the message box, and then delete it without hitting "post reply".
Unfortunately, this method never worked for me. :)

Regards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom McIntyre

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2000
83,748
1,844
176
84
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
Try to remember when we did not have this feature and how upset people were who had composed a long message and then accidentally lost it. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: PatH

FDelGreco

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,225
165
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
Why has none of management staff commented on my post #43? Are you at least thinking about it?

Frank
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave T

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2000
83,748
1,844
176
84
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
Why has none of management staff commented on my post #43? Are you at least thinking about it?

Frank
I think it takes longer than three days to think about what to say. There is a long tradition of trying to keep profit out of giving advice on the Forums. We are currently involved in discussions with the NAWCC HQ Staff on how to best handle advertising. We are mostly dependent on one person for design and deployment of facilities and features.

Organizational time flows at 10% or less of the rate of personal time. We will need a while longer to think about it and have people notice the discussion and share their preferences.

We normally have our discussions about NAWCC plans and possible services in the forums restricted to member use. This is a public forum.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dave T

FDelGreco

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,225
165
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
Tom:

All I'm looking for is a note that says "We're thinking about it" or "We've read it and will think about it" or "We don't have the time or resources to consider it now" or "We've considered it before and don't want to do it." It takes less than a minute to acknowledge that you've read an idea. That's considered courteous communication.

I'm not looking for an answer in three days. I'm simply looking for acknowledgment that you've read it. It seems so many times that a member suggests an idea and there is no acknowledgment, not even a like or thumbs up from management. If the management doesn't want ideas from members, then just say so.

Frank
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,862
2,436
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
Hi Frank,
I think the problem might be that it is not clear who would make that decision or who you were directing the idea to. If by 'management' you mean me and the rest of the Forum mod/admin team, I don't think we're in a position to make that decision ourselves. If you are referring to the BOD, they have been noticeably absent from this discussion, with one exception. But, then this is an area where most members don't stray unless they have a problem. I wouldn't expect the BOD members to think they would find something relevant to them in this corner of the Forum.

For what it's worth, I do like your idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: musicguy

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2000
83,748
1,844
176
84
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
Frank, since I was working on the classified section you now see at the bottom of the forum screen, I was not quite sure what to say. My feeling is that incremental steps that are similar to what we have traditionally done are probably best.

If the primary goal is to be more friendly to buyers and sellers, I don't really see the problem with out current use of the $ prefix when you want to discuss values/buying and selling our stuff.
 

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
Although I’m not generally a person who wants or needs to sell horological stuff – I’m here more for the educational aspects of NAWCC and NW&CM – I can see where adding a Want to Sell area might bring more traffic to this forum and more members to NAWCC.

Maybe previous attempts at a For Sale site failed as they were too difficult to manage or use. The Want to Buy site seems to be easy to use and manage so something similar for selling might work and I think is worth a try.

I think – I may be wrong – that the main concern is liability to the Association. The fact is we have a “Want to Buy” area and we are not worried about liability there; a “Want to Sell” area with essentially the same rules should not cause a problem.

As a refresher, here are the rules for the “Want to Buy” area:

"Each user who wants to use this forum may create ONE thread where they may post descriptions of horologically related items they want to buy. Your thread can contain multiple posts, with one item per post. All discussions and transactions must be conducted privately, e.g. by PM/Conversation, Email, or social media. Only you will be able to post in your thread, other users cannot post replies. You have full edit permission for your thread including the title and all posts. You may edit your posts to add information or make corrections, or delete a post when you no longer need an item. To help sellers find your requests please include selection(s) from the Prefix list in your title, and also brief descriptive terms for each item. These should be updated each time you add or delete a post. Detailed instructions for managing your personal thread are found in the "Want to Buy" thread in the Message Board Help & Notices forum."

It would seem that these rules would work for a “Want to Sell” area, with the following changes and additions:

-Each user may create only one thread, with full edit ability. The poster may list only one item for sale at a time; when it sells, he may edit the post to sell something else.

-The post may or may not contain descriptions, price, condition, etc., but may not be an auction. Any monetary discussions, negotiations, etc. must be done by private conversation.

-If the item is also on a private or public auction or web site, it may not be placed here. However, if the seller has a brick and mortar store and the object is for sale there, it may be posted here.

We could even make some money for the Association by charging something like $5/calendar month to post a “Want to Sell” thread.

Frank
Frank,

Restricting the post to only one item may be too restrictive. What if I have multiple items in one photo? Do I have to do them one at a time?

If there is no charge for the posting then there should be a time period where the posting is removed. I would assume that the association does not want to be a storage facility for years old items.

Can my one item be an advertising of my brick and mortar store with an embedded web address in it?

How might one deal with the issue of non-delivery, bad descriptions, "authentication", etc.

Don't give up on it.

I would like to understand the "barter site" that was mention in one of the posts. How does it work? Which site is it?

Dick

P. S. This forum is much different than Craigslist as it opens up the possibility that anyone in the world could see the items. With Craigslist one has to go to a local site to do the search unless you have the secret sauce that allows you to search all of the list in the U.S.
 
Last edited:

FDelGreco

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,225
165
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
Dick:

I just threw out some "for instances." We could do five items per post, or anything that the management team (moderators and technical administrators) think they can handle. The details would need to be worked out. But no use proposing details at this point if the management team doesn't even acknowledge the basic idea.

Frank
 

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2000
83,748
1,844
176
84
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
Frank, I am hurt that you include me in your definition of management and then say
the management team doesn't even acknowledge the basic idea.
We are a very incremental group and the current increment is https://mb.nawcc.org/categories/mart-online.457/. As I have said several times now, we allow discussions of value in all the forums if you use the green dollar sign prefix $ for the thread you create. Business transactions are inherently private and most people prefer not to disclose what they pay for things. There is no nod nod wink wink involved.

If a member wants to say they paid $xxx for something they are free to. I often do that myself to illustrate a point I am trying to make.
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,862
2,436
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
Part of the reason that I did not jump into this discussion sooner is that I knew we were about to unveil the 'Mart Online'. Now, anyone who wants to can take out an ad and sell whatever they want (horologically related, of course). The format is a bit limited right now, but I think this is a good first step. We'll see how many members take advantage of this new facility.

CLARIFICATION: You must be an NAWCC member to take out an ad. But, any message board member can see the ads and purchase items.
 
Last edited:

MuseChaser

NAWCC Member
Feb 5, 2019
198
44
28
Country
Region
Frank, I am hurt that you include me in your definition of management and then say

We are a very incremental group and the current increment is https://mb.nawcc.org/categories/mart-online.457/. As I have said several times now, we allow discussions of value in all the forums if you use the green dollar sign prefix $ for the thread you create. Business transactions are inherently private and most people prefer not to disclose what they pay for things. There is no nod nod wink wink involved.

If a member wants to say they paid $xxx for something they are free to. I often do that myself to illustrate a point I am trying to make.
Tom,

Thank you for continually responding to this issue, always in a kind, matter-of-fact manner. If I understand correctly, as it stands now, if one wants to offer anything for sale, they have two options..

1. A paid advertisement in the Mart, which will now show also show up in the new forum categories you just added.

or...

2. One can post a thread, preceded with the "$" symbol, inquiring as to the worth of a specific item they own, and then hoping that another member may take it upon themselves to inquire via PM as to whether or not one would like to part with that item for compensation. At least in my eyes, that is very much the definition of "nod nod wink wink," as the post's presentation is fraudulent compared to the post's intention, which must remain hidden.

Are you able to answer why members of this forum, especially those of us who are paid NAWCC members, are not permitted to post true "for sale" listings? Would any of the following be acceptable, and if not.. why not? FWIW.. these are fictitious.. I do not currently have any of these items for sale, nor are the prices indicative of any actual items. Truly. No one need PM me about purchasing any of this... they don't exist...

Example 1 - "For Sale - Symphoniberg #2 Tambour clock, working, case cleaned. I've got three of them, and would be happy to sell one. Feel free to make an offer."

Example 2 - "For Sale - 1897 Bellspieler. Needs more repair than I'm capable of, and I give up. Tons of money invested in it, but hope to get $200. "

Example 3 - "Considering trading or selling ten of my 400-day clocks, all in good to excellent condition. Any interest?"

Example 4 - "$ - What is my 1915 Floating Titania worth? - just curious... nod nod wink wink."

If I understand correctly, only example #4 is currently acceptable... and frankly, it hurts ME that we should be forced to play such childish games.

The other three forums in which I participate have no problem at all with any of the first three posts.... and WOULD have a problem with example number four because it isn't honest... AND I haven't paid a membership fee to any of them... AND there is just as much expertise and help available from experts in the respective fields on each of them... perhaps more, actually. The appearance to a relative new member like me is simply that the leaders of NAWCC at the executive level are unwilling to allow members to sell items to each other without paying NAWCC for the privilege of doing so... on TOP of our membership fees. That is difficult to accept, if it is true.

I am ALWAYS open to being corrected, and to learning. I mean no offense by my questions or observations... just still trying to figure this out.
 

FDelGreco

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,225
165
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
Tom:

I apologize for hurting you. I just wish those that can change / modify / upgrade this forum would acknowledge ideas, even if crappy.

I don't have anything to sell right now, but when I do I'll be content to use the nod nod wink wink process.

Your friend,
Frank
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,862
2,436
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
1. A paid advertisement in the Mart, which will now show also show up in the new forum categories you just added.
MuseChaser,
I am checking on this, but my understanding is that there isn't necessarily a connection between the Paper Mart and the Online Mart. You can advertise in one or the other or both. But, taking out an ad in the Paper Mart does not automatically get your ad placed in the Online Mart. It just so happens that the initial advertisers in the Online Mart also advertise in the Paper Mart.

Given this, you can advertise your examples 1, 2 and 3 in the new Online Mart.

#4 can be placed in the regular forums, but no winking. :)
 
Last edited:

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
With respect to sales, I have a number of used and new tools/parts that I would be comfortable in putting in a photo all at once.

A barter function or the ability to present them to members of this forum, not just to NAWCC, where I could make different parts/tools available to them without having to pay exhorbitant fees to ebay, auction trading sites, etc. would allow me to shed some of the items and it would allow younger members to purchase tools that they might need as they hone their skills.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MuseChaser

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,862
2,436
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
I really hope that's what we are on the way to achieving here, Dick. I hope it will be inexpensive. I hope we can soon add enhancements such as photos. We simply don't have the limitations that exist in a printed publication. And, there's a much larger audience here. I'm hoping we see a lot of members taking advantage of this.
 

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
Given this new online MART, will the NAWCC stop selling excess items on Ebay and utilize this new feature?

Will it also be the one venue for the selling of excess museum items?
 

bruce linde

ADMIN / MODERATOR
NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
8,144
1,114
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
I'm not looking for an answer in three days. I'm simply looking for acknowledgment that you've read it. It seems so many times that a member suggests an idea and there is no acknowledgment, not even a like or thumbs up from management. If the management doesn't want ideas from members, then just say so.
We normally have our discussions about NAWCC plans and possible services in the forums restricted to member use. This is a public forum.

just to echo tom's comment.... the 'member comments and discussion' forum was designed to give members 'the ability to directly interact with others the BOD regarding NAWCC operational, business or other related matters'... but even there its a qualified 'directly interact:

The term "moderated" does not imply a requirement or expectation that a Director respond to every discussion or thread.

there should be even less expectation of a BOD response acknowledgment here in 'forum help and announcements'.

i know you know the BOD members and they know (and appreciate) you... pretty sure they prefer your comments-based-on-inside-knowledge-and-experience more than my 'still-relatively-green-but-enthusiastic-clock-guy' ones. :)

somehow concluding that (especially your) suggestions/ideas/comments are not wanted is not the conclusion i come up with.
 

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2000
83,748
1,844
176
84
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
There are no ads currently in Clocks For Sale or Watches For Sale but they contain the contact information for this new ad program. I have no idea how to evaluate the ads. If you look at the media guide on the main site you can find the prices for ads by character count. Our you can include a copy of your ad and I think they will respond with the price.

Since none of us volunteers here are employees or have any position on the business side, I would rather folks ask such questions of those with the responsibility to answer them.

The ads are only available for purchase by NAWCC Members. The paper Mart and the electronic copy of the Mart under the Publications tab are only viewable by NAWCC Members also as well as requiring NAWCC membership for purchase.
 
Last edited:

FDelGreco

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,225
165
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
OK -- this is the scoop: I sent the following email to mart@nawcc.org on Saturday:


Good Morning!

There's a new online MART on the NAWCC Forum. I have something to sell and I'd like to know how to go about it.

1. What is the process?
2. How much does an ad there cost?
3. How much text am I allowed?
4. Am I allowed images? How many? Pixel or size limit?
5. Can I advertise more than one item in a post?
6. How long can the ad run? If there is a time limit, can I replace the ad if the first item sells quickly?
7. Who do I send the ad to?
8. How do I take the ad down once the item is sold?
9. Anything else I need to know or do?

Thank you! The online mart was recently created but no instructions were given as to its use.

Best regards,

Frank Del Greco NAWCC*

Today I got the following response:


Good Morning Frank!

I’m glad it’s getting noticed – we just recently launched it. This is set up almost exactly like the Line Ads in the Mart.

  1. The process is working with me. You’ll email me the text you would like to place, I’ll determine the number of lines and total charge for the ad.
  2. The cost is the same as the Mart Line Ads - $3.80/line (3 line minimum)
  3. No max on the text in ad.
  4. No images at this time, this is just a line ad. We do offer the banner ads that can have an image. You’ll see a few square banners that are currently running, down the right side of the page.
  5. It’s your line ad – so just like the Mart, whatever text you want to include is up to you.
  6. The ad pricing is for one calendar month (January, February…so on). You can contract for more than one month. If your item is sold, we are looking into adding a SOLD stamp to the ad or could remove it altogether. The ad text can not be switched out in the middle of the month but you would be able to make adjustments to the next month’s line ad.
  7. You’ll work with me for the whole process.
  8. If you item sells or need has been fulfilled, you can reach out to me directly to advise the ad can be marked SOLD or removed. We’ll handle everything on our end.
  9. Not that I can think of!

Yes, we literally just got the go ahead last week. I’m actually going to be sending an eBlast this week to get the word out and share the 2021 Media Kit.

If you think of any other questions – or would like to get signed up for March, let me know!

Thanks,

Rhianna

***
So that's how you run an ad and how much it costs.

Frank
 

UncleDoc

NAWCC Member
Apr 4, 2020
183
26
28
56
Colonie, NY
Country
Region
OK -- this is the scoop: I sent the following email to mart@nawcc.org on Saturday:


Good Morning!

There's a new online MART on the NAWCC Forum. I have something to sell and I'd like to know how to go about it.

1. What is the process?
2. How much does an ad there cost?
3. How much text am I allowed?
4. Am I allowed images? How many? Pixel or size limit?
5. Can I advertise more than one item in a post?
6. How long can the ad run? If there is a time limit, can I replace the ad if the first item sells quickly?
7. Who do I send the ad to?
8. How do I take the ad down once the item is sold?
9. Anything else I need to know or do?

Thank you! The online mart was recently created but no instructions were given as to its use.

Best regards,

Frank Del Greco NAWCC*

Today I got the following response:


Good Morning Frank!

I’m glad it’s getting noticed – we just recently launched it. This is set up almost exactly like the Line Ads in the Mart.

  1. The process is working with me. You’ll email me the text you would like to place, I’ll determine the number of lines and total charge for the ad.
  2. The cost is the same as the Mart Line Ads - $3.80/line (3 line minimum)
  3. No max on the text in ad.
  4. No images at this time, this is just a line ad. We do offer the banner ads that can have an image. You’ll see a few square banners that are currently running, down the right side of the page.
  5. It’s your line ad – so just like the Mart, whatever text you want to include is up to you.
  6. The ad pricing is for one calendar month (January, February…so on). You can contract for more than one month. If your item is sold, we are looking into adding a SOLD stamp to the ad or could remove it altogether. The ad text can not be switched out in the middle of the month but you would be able to make adjustments to the next month’s line ad.
  7. You’ll work with me for the whole process.
  8. If you item sells or need has been fulfilled, you can reach out to me directly to advise the ad can be marked SOLD or removed. We’ll handle everything on our end.
  9. Not that I can think of!

Yes, we literally just got the go ahead last week. I’m actually going to be sending an eBlast this week to get the word out and share the 2021 Media Kit.

If you think of any other questions – or would like to get signed up for March, let me know!

Thanks,

Rhianna

***
So that's how you run an ad and how much it costs.

Frank
LOL
 

MuseChaser

NAWCC Member
Feb 5, 2019
198
44
28
Country
Region
Frank,

Thank you for getting and publishing the details and costs of the process. Unfortunately, that pricing (a minimum of $11.40) is cost prohibitive for advertising many of things we'd like to offer each other to help out. Defeats the whole purpose of the "For sale or trade" items I'd have interested in posting... small left over parts, movements, faces, etc..

Again, I don't understand the rationale behind requiring members to play the "$ - What is my center arbor for a 1953 Schatz 49 worth?" game.. there is simply no reason I can think of where "for sale/trade" listings for those kind of items would be harmful to ANYONE.

Color me confused.
 

Tom McIntyre

Technical Admin
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Ruby Member
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2000
83,748
1,844
176
84
Boston
awco.org
Country
Region
I wonder what the participants in this discussion think is a reasonable cost to sell (or buy) something as related to what we might call the fair market value? There is quite a bit of labor involved in selling and evaluating for sale and there are expenses beyond purchase price in acquiring items you want or intend to sell.

If you pack up your stuff and give it to a third party seller, you will typically pay between 20% and 50% of the transaction price to the person doing the work.

I'm posting this in this discussion, because it seems to me we think it is less expensive to buy from friends than to use professionals.

My personal viewpoint that has developed very slowly over the years is that there is no way to generate income reliably without doing a lot of work and taking a lot of risk. Recently I have been opting to buy and sell purely at auction. Even when someone I know well asks for help, I will share my opinion on what their things are worth and recommend they sell them at auction.

If someone wants something I own that I cannot afford to give to them I am likely to send it to the auction and alert them to the sale. On the flip side of that if there is something in a friend's collection that is going to be sold, I will not try to buy it until it is in the auction.

That philosophy recently led to me paying over $6,000 for a watch that had been given to me over 40 years ago and that I had sold to a friend over 35 years ago. I sold it to my friend because he was into wristwatches and I was having a hard time taking care of the watch. My recollection is that he paid me $350 for it. My friend died and I could have easily bought the watch back from his widow who is a good friend. I expected that decision to cost me $1,000 or so but it turned out that times had changed and early thin Rolexes had become valuable. I still feel good about buying it.
 

bruce linde

ADMIN / MODERATOR
NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
8,144
1,114
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
Unfortunately, that pricing (a minimum of $11.40) is cost prohibitive for advertising many of things we'd like to offer each other to help out. Defeats the whole purpose of the "For sale or trade" items I'd have interested in posting... small left over parts, movements, faces, etc.. Again, I don't understand the rationale behind requiring members to play the "$ - What is my center arbor for a 1953 Schatz 49 worth?" game.. there is simply no reason I can think of where "for sale/trade" listings for those kind of items would be harmful to ANYONE.

agree with you on the first point... but can't really think of a way to do this other than craigslist... which limits it to local sales. i have a bunch of stuff i would like to get to other clock tweakers, but don't want to deal with eBay (and seller fees and shipping), etc.

as to the second point? we haven't allowed this up until now and the moderators have still had to deal with people going off on each other about sales on non-related platforms, or continuing grudges spanning years.
 

zedric

NAWCC Member
Aug 8, 2012
1,446
239
63
Country
Region
agree with you on the first point... but can't really think of a way to do this other than craigslist... which limits it to local sales. i have a bunch of stuff i would like to get to other clock tweakers, but don't want to deal with eBay (and seller fees and shipping), etc.
In the past on other forums this has been handled by having one (usually fixed) rate to advertise items under a certain value, and another rate for items of higher value.

For the Mart to be successful, it will need to be visible... Hiding it at the bottom of the forum is not going to get people looking at it, but I guess that is needed until it is truly "live"
 

bruce linde

ADMIN / MODERATOR
NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
8,144
1,114
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
z - i like it... but i'm not driving. :)

as for building a successful mart, a phrase i use in my work all the time comes to mind: 'coral reef development'. given everything that's going on organizationally, and other priorities, i think this thing is either going to evolve into something over time or wither away from lack of attention.... unless someone volunteers to be its champion.

not hinting, just saying!
 

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
From what I understand if I had an item that I wanted to sell and the current date was 1 February, then it would not be listed until March 1st. Am I correct?

I cannot see how this will work other than for very high priced items.

With other venues, such as Craigslist, Offerup, Ebay, Etsy, Kijiji, etc. the seller creates the ad, posts the ad, is responsible for shipping, deleting the ad if sold (in some cases), etc. and the ad can be posted any day/time of the month.

It is probably better than the Mart as the Mart is issued on a two month basis and this is now one month. Why wouldn't a member post only online and stop advertising in the Mart, which I contend will be obsolete within a few years, if not, earlier? The only people that might miss an offering in the Mart are those that do not utilize online resources perhaps.

All the best,
Dick
 

FDelGreco

NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2000
2,225
165
63
Novelty, OH
Country
Region
I agree with MuseChaser that paying $11+ for an ad to sell $10 - 25 worth of parts doesn’t make sense. But let’s see what is actually happening.

The paper MART magazine is dying. 30 years ago it was as thick as it is now but there were no chapter highlights included, or any stories. I checked the latest MART magazine for the “for sale” (not the wanted or services) area of clocks, watches, and “other.” It consists of about one page! Obviously, over the years members have found other ways to sell that are more efficient or more effective or less expensive than the MART magazine.

So now the “powers that be” (I’m using that term so as not to offend Tom) have replicated that dying system in this forum. Does that make sense? I suspect that they are charging the same as the paper MART since if ads move from the paper MART to this forum for free then ad income would be lost and the MART selling area will shrink to zero.

I do believe that NAWCC should share in the income from sales – it’s a source of necessary income – but we have to be reasonable. My recommendation would be to run the sales area just like the “want to buy” forum but charge something like $5/month per thread for NAWCC members, more for registered nonmembers. Give it a try and adjust accordingly as time goes on. As there are many details to be worked out, I wouldn’t expect this to happen immediately.

Frank
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave Coatsworth

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
I agree with MuseChaser that paying $11+ for an ad to sell $10 - 25 worth of parts doesn’t make sense. But let’s see what is actually happening.

The paper MART magazine is dying. 30 years ago it was as thick as it is now but there were no chapter highlights included, or any stories. I checked the latest MART magazine for the “for sale” (not the wanted or services) area of clocks, watches, and “other.” It consists of about one page! Obviously, over the years members have found other ways to sell that are more efficient or more effective or less expensive than the MART magazine.

So now the “powers that be” (I’m using that term so as not to offend Tom) have replicated that dying system in this forum. Does that make sense? I suspect that they are charging the same as the paper MART since if ads move from the paper MART to this forum for free then ad income would be lost and the MART selling area will shrink to zero.

I do believe that NAWCC should share in the income from sales – it’s a source of necessary income – but we have to be reasonable. My recommendation would be to run the sales area just like the “want to buy” forum but charge something like $5/month per thread for NAWCC members, more for registered nonmembers. Give it a try and adjust accordingly as time goes on. As there are many details to be worked out, I wouldn’t expect this to happen immediately.

Frank
A good starting point.

However, I expect that it may be 6 months before a decision is made.

Has anyone had any success with the Wanted to Buy capability?
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,862
2,436
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
Has anyone had any success with the Wanted to Buy capability?
I don't think you can fairly compare the Wanted to Buy section with a viable For Sale facility. The Wanted to Buy section is full of oddball stuff that people have pretty much given up on finding. So, they post here as a last resort. I don't expect it to be very successful in terms of volume, but for those few people who find what they are looking for, it's gold.

I think a viable For Sale facility will actually bring out a lot of everyday clocks, watches, tools, etc that people actually want to buy. I agree that the current iteration is not there yet. But I hope it will evolve into a thriving feature of this Forum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MuseChaser

leeinv66

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Mar 31, 2005
10,251
279
83
Launceston Tasmania
Country
Region
For the Mart to be successful, it will need to be visible... Hiding it at the bottom of the forum is not going to get people looking at it, but I guess that is needed until it is truly "live"
Given the Forums are provided primarily for educational purposes, how visible should this proposed Mart be?
 

zedric

NAWCC Member
Aug 8, 2012
1,446
239
63
Country
Region
I would say they should eventually be a separate part of the website than the forums, much like the shop is now (you can see the link to the shop from the top right of your screen when you are on the forums). That would keep the forums for education, but keep a link between them and the mart for those who want to buy or sell items.
 

Jim Haney

NAWCC Member
Sep 21, 2002
6,830
1,577
113
71
Decatur, TN.
Country
Region
Given the Forums are provided primarily for educational purposes, how visible should this proposed Mart be

This is the kind of closed thinking that you have promoted for years.

I have a news flash for you.

Buy/Sell is one of the most important educational parts of Horology !

If collectors do not know the value of something, it is a bad situation for everyone involved.

I can't remember how many time I have had to tell someone that they got shafted on a timepiece.

Also, we see post all the time from people who don't have a clue on the value of their item and they get shafted in reverse.

People with a closed mindset against all new ideas is more harmful to the NAWCC than anything else.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MuseChaser

UncleDoc

NAWCC Member
Apr 4, 2020
183
26
28
56
Colonie, NY
Country
Region
This is the kind of closed thinking that you have promoted for years.

I have a news flash for you.

Buy/Sell is one of the most important educational parts of Horology !

If collectors do not know the value of something, it is a bad situation for everyone involved.

I can't remember how many time I have had to tell someone that they got shafted on a timepiece.

Also, we see post all the time from people who don't have a clue on the value of their item and they get shafted in reverse.

Someone like you with a closed mindset against all new ideas is more harmful to the NAWCC than anything else.
What a great comment. It's essentially what's been percolating in my head since I first found this thread. You folks on the admin side of this are so completely obtuse, in my opinion. Have a BST (Buy/Sell/Trade) section of the forum. Free to all, members or not. Has to follow the general forum rules, but nothing else. Guaranteed to have a big net positive effect on NAWCC. When I eventually get my mill and want to sell my Bergeon bushing set-up, I'd like to sell it here, despite being able to get more "$" for it on eBay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MuseChaser

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,862
2,436
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
You folks on the admin side of this are so completely obtuse, in my opinion.
I find this to be a very unfair generalization. I think if you were to read through this thread again, you would also find that it is a very poor one.
 

MuseChaser

NAWCC Member
Feb 5, 2019
198
44
28
Country
Region
I find this to be a very unfair generalization. I think if you were to read through this thread again, you would also find that it is a very poor one.
Dave,

Personally, I may not have phrased it that way, but there still hasn't been any real justification for not allowing low value "For sale/trade" posts other than...

1.Sometime in the past some forum members got upset with each other. The obvious answer to that is..so what? That's on them... Not NAWCC. For sale threads tend to police themselves among members quite quickly... An a$$ho1e is only an a$$ho1e once before he/she is outed by the community, and for the low dollar stuff we're talking about, pretty much anyone could absorb one bad transaction.

2. The BOD/powers that be want the revenue. I won't address that other than to say, as a dues-paying member of NAWCC, I find that distasteful.

Tom's earlier post regarding his multi-kilobuck transactions with items and his assertion that he would tell a friend to go to an auction site to buy one of Tom's items rather than being willing to sell to the friend directly didn't sit well with me either. My uncle did that very thing to our family regarding some cherished posessions of my deceased grandfather. That was very difficult to forgive. Speaking for myself, I would MUCH rather buy and sell directly to friends. I can't imagine telling a friend, "nope... You gotta bid on it."

The points about the disconnect between desiring to educate and bringing new people into the field, but discouraging sales and trades of anything other than high dollar items are DEAD on accurate, regardless of tone or delivery.​
 

bruce linde

ADMIN / MODERATOR
NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
8,144
1,114
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
What a great comment. It's essentially what's been percolating in my head since I first found this thread. You folks on the admin side of this are so completely obtuse, in my opinion.
hmm....

i've been on the MB for about ten years. i've been an admin for half of that and have over 8000 posts. i volunteer behind the scenes with the staff and board members on special projects (such as helping design the new website, improving SEO, technical maintenance of the MB, ad strategies for MB and mothership, etc.)... every day... and i have a long way to go before i've contributed as much as peter, steven, tom and the other members of the moderation team you just trashed.

don't get me wrong: you get to have your opinions but that doesn't make them accurate or informed... or any less insulting. if i may remind all of the rules: personal attacks and derogatory remarks are strictly prohibited and will result in loss of posting privileges.


same for you, jim - a former moderator using 'you' statements? it would have been enough to say 'buy and sell are important to horology' without making it personal and attacking peter.




a closed mindset against all new ideas is more harmful to the NAWCC than anything else.
and my opinion is that the unfettered and adversarial negative tone being expressed is far more harmful. if at any time you (generic) think it's all too restrictive, no one is forcing you to continue using this incredible resource... built over time on the contributions of thousands of participants. how about posting from a place of abundance and appreciation instead of 'you all must be idiots'?

something we can all agree on is that the message board rocks. every one of us gets tons out of it... answers, support, tips, cautions, etc. that's part of the reason i designed this shirt soon after i found my way here. i was talking to a friend and said, "this is the best education i've ever gotten... and the least expensive!"



clock_shool_t-shirt_mockup.jpg



i don't expect that my comments will change your minds, but i do hope they will help inspire more balanced and supportive discussion instead of negatronic and unhelpful soap-boxing. in the meantime, us (apparently unappreciated) admins will keep the MB running so you always have the option of bashing us or the organization.

btw... we don't expect thanks or acknowledgment but it would be nice if maybe y'all lightened up a bit on us.... or maybe asked what you could do to help. just a thought....
 

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
I believe that someone in the past differentiated the MB volunteers from the management or some other wording for those in the BOD that constitute the current leadership of the NAWCC. So are some of the comments misdirected?
 

Dick C

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
1,784
84
48
Country
I don't think you can fairly compare the Wanted to Buy section with a viable For Sale facility. The Wanted to Buy section is full of oddball stuff that people have pretty much given up on finding. So, they post here as a last resort. I don't expect it to be very successful in terms of volume, but for those few people who find what they are looking for, it's gold.

I think a viable For Sale facility will actually bring out a lot of everyday clocks, watches, tools, etc that people actually want to buy. I agree that the current iteration is not there yet. But I hope it will evolve into a thriving feature of this Forum.
I was not comparing the two entities at all.

My assumption is that the Want to Buy section is for those that need to source a part and it may not be based on necessity. It is the only entity, other than the Facebook groups, where one can list a part that is needed. It doesn't have to be an oddball item. You cannot easily, if at all, list it as a wanted item on Etsy, Craigslist, Ebay, etc.

Also, is someone going to answer my questions in post 78? Will the NAWCC help to make the Sell section more successful by selling the excess publications and items from the Museum on this site or will they continue to use Ebay and pay whatever fee they are charged?

Feel free to tell me that I am out of bounds and I will keep my fingers tied to my chair arms.
 
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES

Find member

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
163,536
Messages
1,421,047
Members
84,938
Latest member
Naama
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,857
Last edit
Aurora's 15 Ruby Jewel Movements by Greg Frauenhoff

514 Poplar Street
Columbia, PA 17512

Phone: 717-684-8261

Contact the Webmaster for perceived copyright infringement (DMCA Registration Number 1010287).

Copyright © National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Inc (A 501c3 non-profit corporation). All Rights Reserved.

The NAWCC is dedicated to providing association services, promoting interest in and encouraging the collecting of clocks and watches including disseminating knowledge of the same.