• Upcoming updates
    Over the next couple of weeks we will be performing software updates on the forum. These will be completed in small steps as we upgrade individual software addons. You might occasionally see a maintenance message that will last a few minutes at most.

    If we anticipate an update will take more than a few minutes, we'll put up a notice with estimated time.

    Thank you!

why don't more people appreciate antique mechanical clocks? (answered)

bruce linde

NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
10,800
2,450
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
"Antique mechanical clocks, also known as mechanical timepieces, can be difficult to appreciate for several reasons. One reason is their complexity, as they require a certain level of technical understanding to fully appreciate their intricate mechanics and design. Additionally, many people today rely on digital timekeeping devices, making mechanical clocks seem outdated or less convenient. The cost of restoring and maintaining antique clocks can also be a barrier for some people. Finally, a lack of exposure or knowledge about the historical and cultural significance of these clocks can also lead to a lack of appreciation for them. However, for those who appreciate the artistry, craftsmanship, and attention to detail that goes into creating mechanical clocks, they can hold a deep fascination and value."

according to artificial intelligence ChatGPT :)
 

J. A. Olson

NAWCC Member
Dec 21, 2006
5,110
826
113
WI
Country
Region
'Appreciate the artistry, craftsmanship, and attention to detail.'

(Skip to 10:45 for the real entertainment to begin.)

 
  • Like
Reactions: Bernhard J.

J. A. Olson

NAWCC Member
Dec 21, 2006
5,110
826
113
WI
Country
Region
While the AI answer isn't totally off-base... It's not a problem with antique clocks, rather the lack of people (especially younger people) who really understand and appreciate them. How they were made, how they're to be maintained, their functionality and if they're old or unusual enough: their history. This is why groups such as the NAWCC are crucial to educating people on the subjects of horology. Whether it's one-off clockmaking or restoring factory-made clocks, it all has to be covered somewhere.

Of course I'm always grateful for fellow hobbyists and professionals who 'get it'. On this forum along there have been plenty of great contributors who have posted up amazing showcases of clocks, then those who have also restored clocks in dire need of repairs and did a great job at it. In some ways, the restoration of a clock can be the most interesting part of handling it. To others, it's the search for something really elusive and finally achieving it one day regardless of whether it needs to be repaired.

And in contrast (more particularly, on social media) you get guys like the one in that video: clueless morons without any self-awareness, gradually wrecking heaps of clocks they don't understand or appreciate. There is no human aspect with them: it's just one aimless object to obsess over after another, then moving onto something else which gets similarly unappreciated and obsessed over.

Granted the Sonnenberg tambour is a pretty cheap piece spamwich of a clock, but imagine if that were a higher-end clock instead? I was just watching another video of a similar guy fumbling about with an older Herschede 9 tube. No idea how to fix its wear-related problems or how to take care of it at all. A sad end to what could have been a real stunning clock in the right hands.

Knowledge, education, appreciation, and good resources are key to the future of horology, but they don't occur through osmosis.
 

Reconnaissanceman

Registered User
Nov 30, 2022
20
12
3
63
Country
I was trained as an airplane mechanic, which led to many personal discoveries about the invisible forces of lift, vibration, flexure, lubricity and metallurgy, which apply equally to clock and watchmaking, but on a greatly miniaturized scale. I suppose we shouldn’t expect everyone to instantly have a fascination with horology, who hasn’t had long exposure to finely made machines. The author of Wind, Sand and Stars made this observation:

"But in the machine of today we forget that motors are whirring: the motor, finally, has come to fulfill its function, which is to whirr as a heart beats - and we give no thought to the beating of our heart. Thus, precisely because it is perfect the machine dissembles its own existence instead of forcing itself upon our notice. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 

MQ32shooter

NAWCC Member
Jul 7, 2008
890
28
28
75
Garland, Texas
Country
Region
Great thread. When I started collecting in 1984 I fell in love with mechanical clocks because of the beauty of the wood work. Not only did they tell time, but were incredible pieces of furniture. My passion has always been big, American wall clocks, the bigger the better. Also have 5 German and Scottish floor models. When someone comes into our home that is unfamiliar with their beauty and functionality, I jump at the chance to introduce them to our passion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alex KVASHIN

daveR

NAWCC Member
Sep 10, 2008
429
38
28
melbourne, Australia
Country
Region
All of the above, but also, especially in the larger cities, more and more people are dealing with cost of living expenses and living in apartments which typically dont have space for extra mantel clocks and definitely longcases!
"Not even one small mantel clock , surely you can"
Refer back to above statements
 

Chris Radano

Registered User
Feb 18, 2004
4,255
595
113
Pennsylvania
Country
Region
If we could travel back in time, let's say 1790. I think we would see pretty much the same proportion of people were not "enthusiastic" about clocks back then. Clocks had been around for some period of time by 1790 (at least a couple generations) so the general public was familiar with clocks and could tell time. In 1790 clocks were not "mass produced" as we understand that term today. But they were becoming more necessary.
So things that are "necessary" today, that are mechanical that people can be "enthusiasts" of today? Cars come to mind. But really not everyone is a gear head. Back when cars were not as computerized, only a relatively small proportion of people were auto enthusiasts. Usually young males.
Today the example of phones is frequently used as an example of something that occupies people's time. Phones are extremely popular among the masses, but interestingly phones are not mechanical.
To me phones and cars have similar appeal to people today as clocks did to (wealthy) people back in 1790- they are an extension of the owner and are ego stroking and a way to get noticed by other people.

I go to a retirement community and there is a wood shop area complete with large power tools, a finishing area, ventilation, the works. There is even a woodworking club there with a name.
So I thought to myself, "This is a dying art. Probably as people continue to enter the retirement home this wood shop will die off". But really I am not so sure about that. There is a guy I know maybe in his 30s that recently moved into a house with a wood shop. He went to trade school and learned cabinet making. And I have been to the trade school he attended and there are several young people learning woodworking every year. Including female students. Now I think woodworking is maybe not very trendy. But it is not dead either.
So a lot of things, including clocks, are maybe not so hip today but I shouldn't underestimate their interest to others. And the knowledge that it takes to repair and maintain mechanical and old things can always be relearned by other people.

I saw a video of a film that was made in the 1960's. The video was interviews of schoolchildren and asked the children what they thought life in the future would be like. A couple children answered along the lines that people would eat a pill everyday and that would be the only nutrition they would need.
But that hasn't happened yet. In fact, cooking shows are popular today and many people classify themselves as "foodies". So in the past people underestimated that people in the future would love to prepare and eat food, and that food is a universal pleasure of life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WIngraham

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

NAWCC Member
Nov 26, 2009
6,683
1,864
113
Country
Not sure I totally agree with the premise of this thread.

I do think that mechanical clocks are still very much appreciated.

Now some of my typical rambling and pontification.

There's this nostalgia for the halcyon days that I'm not sure ever really existed.

For a long time, tall clocks, shelf clocks, etc. were valued for and appreciated by dealers and collectors as a piece of period furniture and generally not for the mechanicals. Even to this day, I have had "important" dealers telling me they're not too concerned about what's behind the dial. For example, at this past summer's NHADA Show, I saw the ABSOLUTELY BEST painted tall case with a killer dial. No concern about the mechanicals. In fact, it was fitted with a POS modern German chain pull winding movement. HUGE price and I believe it sold.

In the course of doing general antique shows, there are people who really do appreciate mechanical clocks for their mechanical aspects but also for many different reasons as well. I have also bought some great stuff at those shows or in antiques shops. I find the local chapter meetings abysmal on multiple levels.

I love old cars. Have gone to small shows (Essex, MA has a great open air one each year, and it's free) and peruse some sites devoted to them. Foreign cars are great. But give me the "Detroit Iron" of the late '50's - early '60's. Don't care much for "muscle cars". And the way some people feel about clocks, I like the looks. Not too concerned about the mechanicals.

I find an iPhone indispensable. A true beneficial advance in technology. I use it as needed but don't stare at it for hours nor use it while walking down the street or driving.

Finally, let's stop blaming "the young folks" and Ikea. From what I have observed, they are not the issue.

RM
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raymond Rice

the 3rd dwarve

Registered User
Nov 3, 2000
743
53
28
My $.02 from a zany old man.

I totally agree with the premise of this thread. All things mechanical are going the way of the Triceratops and T. rex.

Here's three examples:

  • After retiring from industry I got involved with a small metal fabrication shop. The shop was established in 1964. When John senior passed John Jr. took over the shop and ran it profitably until 2022 when he closed it. In the years between 2018 and 2022 we tried unsuccessfully to hire fabricators. Starting salary was to be $30/hr. That was negotiable and could increase after 90 days. In that three year period we were unable to hire a single fabricator. They no longer exist. We took on a couple of apprentices who knew nothing but both found the work too difficult and left after a couple of weeks.
  • My nephew graduated from WPI with a BS in mechanical engineering. I decided that I would gift him my 9 inch Southbend model A. I had used this lathe for a number of years and it was well up graded and equipped. His response was "that's nice uncle D but I have no use for that, no one turns handles anymore."
  • My favorite is automotive fuel pumps. Do you remember when fuel pumps were mechanical, mounted to the side of the engine block, and powered by a lobe on the cam? For the most part all the manufacturers had two fuel pumps, one for small blocks and one for big blocks and the same pump fit motors from 1960 to 1980. You could go to any auto parts store and get one off the shelf for $3.49. It took a good 15 minutes to change in your driveway. Today, some guy who has never held a screwdriver in his hand sat at his computer and decided that it would be best to put the pump inside the gas tank. I had a recall on my 1 year old car to replace the fuel pump and I had to leave it overnight at the dealers.
There's more but that's enough of a rant.

D`
 

bruce linde

NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
10,800
2,450
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
Not sure I totally agree with the premise of this thread.
I do think that mechanical clocks are still very much appreciated.
the premise of this thread was actually: an artificial intelligence's conclusion kind of nailed the bottom line about mechanical clocks.

as for your comment, i don't think you can say 'very much appreciated'. it might be 'very much' among collectors and the people who visit this message board, but out in the world? i don't thin so, lucy. i've got a collector friend who's always telling me to sell my lesser clocks and just keep the good ones... except no one is buying. nothing. i've offered some really nice (but admittedly not top of the line) clocks at prices i would have gone nuts over even two years ago and.... crickets. zero response.

the real question is 'how have the numbers of people who appreciate (and have) mechanical clocks trended over the last _______ years?' i'll eat one of my (smaller) regulators if those numbers haven't been dropping faster each year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bila

novicetimekeeper

Registered User
Jul 26, 2015
12,375
1,618
113
Dorset
Country
Region
I don't know that I want more people appreciating them, I spend more than enough on them already!
 
  • Like
Reactions: WIngraham

bruce linde

NAWCC Member
Donor
Nov 13, 2011
10,800
2,450
113
oakland, ca.
clockhappy.com
Country
Region
I don't know that I want more people appreciating them, I spend more than enough on them already!

i keep thinking there should be a way to classify mechanical clocks rather than just 'top-notch' and 'everything else'... maybe by grade and price range? i.e.,

A - all original parts surfaces in outstanding condition
AA - same as A but very rare and/or highly desireable to collectors
B - some restoration along the way, very good condition
C - average
D - issues
M - marriage clock

below $1k
$1k - $5k
$5k - $10k
$10k - $15k
$15k - $20k
$20k - $30k
$30k - $40k
$40k - $50k
above $50k

that would allow us to discuss clocks in context
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

NAWCC Member
Nov 26, 2009
6,683
1,864
113
Country
the premise of this thread was actually: an artificial intelligence's conclusion kind of nailed the bottom line about mechanical clocks.

as for your comment, i don't think you can say 'very much appreciated'. it might be 'very much' among collectors and the people who visit this message board, but out in the world? i don't thin so, lucy. i've got a collector friend who's always telling me to sell my lesser clocks and just keep the good ones... except no one is buying. nothing. i've offered some really nice (but admittedly not top of the line) clocks at prices i would have gone nuts over even two years ago and.... crickets. zero response.

the real question is 'how have the numbers of people who appreciate (and have) mechanical clocks trended over the last _______ years?' i'll eat one of my (smaller) regulators if those numbers haven't been dropping faster each year.
Well Ricky, maybe you need to get out more rather than playing with AI?

I stand by my statements.

I do general antiques shows and I have actually done okay selling clocks to the general public, and yes, to younger folks. In fact, much better then when I go to the now shriveled sad remnants of 2 local NE chapter meetings. By the way, I'm often rather taken aback by what passes for knowledge in those venues.

Some respond to the mechanical aspects, some the decorative aspects. A slew of reasons. In the recent past, I have sold a great Baird (crosses over into advertising), a few very nice Chelseas, a very nice 2 weight Vienna, a ST # 2, a clean bevel front banjo, 2 ogees with wonderful folky glasses, a gilt decorated scroll front and so on.

What helps is that I am patient, always spending time discussing set up, general care and troubleshooting. They have my email and cell to call for questions. You know what? The only emails I have received so far are how thrilled they are with the clock. And I have repeat customers who decide that the house needed another clock.

Face it. Most antiques, collectibles, and art go through their ups and downs. I can name any # of fads, if you will, when particular categories of antiques were white hot. Like tulipmania. Some then go through an appropriate "adjustment". Some just fall off the cliff. Carnival glass anyone? "Golden" oak? A lot of Victoriana? A long list.

Unfortunately, clocks are not immune and there is no logical reason why they would be. Unfortunately, like many of the clocks I collected when much younger and when myself and a few other age peer collectors beat each other up @ auctions and paid through the snoot.

Not just at the bottom, either. Follow some of the "important" Americana auctions. The prices are eye watering until you learn what the consigner paid back in the late '90's - early 2000's. Poor schnook paid a 6 figure price for an "important" pair of Chippendale chairs to one of the twins at the Winter Show, now got < 50%.

True of quite a few American tall case and banjo clocks. Brought BIG money at one time, whimpered the next. There is a now retired NH auctioneer whose sales were famous for breath taking prices for Americana. As his past buyers aged and downsized, they turned to him. A banjo clock that he had sold for many $1000's maybe 20 years before absolutely flopped. With a pained look, he admitted to the audience he was going to have a hard time facing the consigners. That's how it goes.

I will add that the effect of eBay cannot be overestimated. So many things labeled "rare" were revealed not to be. That seems to be especially true of clocks.

Finally, if there isn't interest in some of the things you're trying to sell, maybe you need to reevaluate the quality of the offerings and or the asking price.

Collecting antiques takes some nerve. Be prepared that you might not come out ahead. But I buy what I like and like what I buy and enjoy learning about them and living with them.

RM
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
180,081
Messages
1,570,930
Members
54,367
Latest member
shaimerej
Encyclopedia Pages
911
Total wiki contributions
3,090
Last edit
How To Open A Pocket Watch Case by Kent