Why does my 8 day Sessions Banjo clock need wound after 6 days?

[abe]

My Sessions Revere banjo clock is an 8-day clock. But lately I have had to wind it on the 6th day.

Is there a reason for this? Today I wound it after I noticed it had stopped. I was able to wind around 13 half turns for both the strike and the time.

 

[Mike Phelan]

A few hundred reasons why this could be

When was it last cleaned and oiled properly?

 

[Steven Thornberry]

I think this would be better discussed in the Clock Repair forum.

 

[Dick Feldman]

Your clock is showing classic signs of low power.
Low power, usually due to friction.
Friction due to wear.
Wear due to normal, long use.
Clock movements are machines and will wear just as any other machine.
Clean, oil and adjust are not bad for clock movements but are not a viable cure for friction, wear or long use. If C/O/A cures the problem, it will be a short-term cure.
The proper cure for wear is to bore each problem wear point and install a proper sized bushing. Adding bushings at a few places will normally result in a short-term repair. There is not a physical reason in the world a clock movement would only wear in a few areas. Solving only part of the wear problem is poor repair practice.
Adding bushings to a clock movement is not a process for beginners.
If you take your clock to a clock repair person and they suggest clean, oil and adjust, pick the clock up and take it somewhere else. If you take your clock to a repair person and they suggest adding only a few bushings, again, take it somewhere else.
This board is populated by all levels of clock repair people.
It is very possible you may get poor advice from less than competent clock repair people here.
A competent repair person will also suggest any other measures to bring your clock up to date, like replacing brass return springs on the click assemblies, bad clicks and click pivots. Not addressing those type things can make the clock a danger to you.
This is the short version of the real story.
Many years-experience with clock repair has shown me the best, most efficient approach.
That is what I know.
Dick

 

[R. Croswell]

My Sessions Revere banjo clock is an 8-day clock. But lately I have had to wind it on the 6th day.
Is there a reason for this?

Yes, your clock is trying to tell you something, but what? One cannot be sure just what your clock needs to return it to proper running order without knowing something about its history and when it was last serviced and what was done to it. It is dangerous (and costly) to assume that every part of a clock is worn out just because it is approaching 100 years old. I agree, "Your clock is showing classic signs of low power", that's most likely the reason it will only run 6 days when it should run closer to 10 days if it were in excellent health. Bad mainsprings are seldom the cause of low power, but friction is. The three most common causes of friction are;
1) lack of oil, old dried up oil, and buildup of dirt and dust mixed with old oil.
2) rough or damaged pivots (bearings) and/or other wearing surfaces
3) misalignment of wheels and pinions due to excessive wear to pivots and pivot holes, and sometimes wear to other moving parts.

All the parts of a clock wear but they don't all wear at the same rate, and some lightly loaded parts almost never cause a problem. Planning what should be done to restore your clock's health should be done after the clock is inspected by a competent clock repair person and must take into account you own plans for this clock. Is it ready for a total restoration, or simply the victim of the use of improper oil, or a bad previous repair? Your clock needs to be "serviced" and that must include complete disassembly and cleaning and inspection. Then anything that is dangerous must be repaired. I know very few people who would recommend installing bushings is every pivot when some may have significant life remaining.

There has been much discussion and little agreement about what is the proper service interval for mechanical clocks. Some maker's instructions say to oil every year. The general consensus seems to be that the clock should be serviced every 3 to 10 years with 6 years being about average. So if there are several pivot holes that still have 50% of their service life left and the clock is expected back in 6 years for routine maintenance, there is no compelling reason to bush these now - we can keep an eye on them and maybe in 20 or 30 years they will need to be bushed. If money is no object and the owner desires a total restoration now that's fine also.

RC

 

[Willie X]

These usually wear out at the top half of the train and the winding ratchet system (click) is always suspect. Willie X

 

[Dick Feldman]

A good example of doing a complete job is on my bench now.
It is a Seth Thomas 89 which is a common movement and one that is quite reliable.
With a past repair, the clicks were replaced with "off the shelf" clicks that were manufactured in India. Those are of rather poor quality but they fit.
One of those clicks failed (it broke in half) and released all of the mainspring power against the winding key as well as the hand winding the clock. The result was a blue thumbnail for the clock owner and some missing hide.
In the course of the previous repair, a few bushings were added to compensate for the clock running about a hundred years. There is still appreciable wear in the movement at places not addressed. These neglected places are both in the upper and lower parts of the trains.
I cannot, in good conscience put this thing back together in its present state. If I did and it fails, the onus will be on me.
I feel the previous repair was inadequate and the previous repairer did an injustice to the clock and the owner.
The clock is a family item and very important to the owner. He has already paid to have an incomplete job done and now will pay me again to correct and assure his clock runs for a long time.
The previous repair person will never be aware that he/she did a less than quality repair.
As was said, This board is populated by all levels of clock repair people.
My best regards,
Dick

 

[abe]

Thank you all for your help and advice! It is not a family heirloom clock. I bought this on eBay around 2012. I bought it because my parents had a Sessions Revere banjo like this with the exception that his did not have a strike. Here is a picture of my grandparents in my parents kitchen from
the mid 70's..

So, about my clock. I never had it cleaned nor serviced.

Will any more damage occur to the clock if I wait to do a thorough repair as described above?

 

[R. Croswell]

……..Will any more damage occur to the clock if I wait to do a thorough repair as described above?

No more damage will be done if wait as long as you do not run the clock while you wait. It should be obvious that running a dirty clock without oil (if it will run) will cause accelerated wear. Perhaps the biggest danger is that a worn click or click spring might “let go” causing pain and bloodshed to for the person winding the clock.

RC

 

[Dick Feldman]

The normal sequence of events will be that with use, the clock will run less and less time between windings. You may also see the strike train become unreliable as that train wears.
If the wear in your clock is addressed properly when you do have it serviced, the bushing process will not be appreciably more difficult than if you had it done today.
If the click assembly, etc. worries you, it would be a good idea to have a competent clock repair person check that out and bring that up to date.
Since the movement must be disassembled for that, you would be a good portion of the way towards the rebuild and the problem would only be partially solved. That process would be repeated when you had the clock properly serviced.
I feel it is of great importance is that all wear be addressed when the clock is serviced. Someone may be able to make the clock run again by taking care of the most severe places. (A few vs. many bushings installed)
Clock repair shops vary greatly with the competence of the repair people and the service given. Unfortunately, there are a number of shops in every market that do not do a complete job, but seem to charge as much as quality repairers.
I am not soliciting your business but if the clock came to me, I would give you a firm written repair estimate for your approval before any work was done. Because I do a complete job and give good service, I have a substantial backlog of clock repairs facing me.
I hope this helps,
Dick

 

[abe]

Thank you for all the great advice!

Update: I used to wind my clocks on Sunday mornings before church. Then our church changed it's start time so I began winding my Lister tall case and my Sessions banjo on Saturdays or earlier. And I began winding the banjo earlier week after week. Anyhow I started thinking about this and I wasn't really sure what day I last wound it. So two Sundays ago I wound it after church. I did not wind it midweek. This past Sunday it was running when I came home from church. So now I will wind it Sunday afternoons . I will report back after several weeks and let you all know the results.