Why does he bother cleaning?

Discussion in 'Watch Repair' started by DeweyC, May 29, 2019.

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  1. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    In my search for an answer to the cap jewel question below, I came across some very interesting videos.

    This is one of a 3 part series.

    Aside from the obvious cringe worthy things, it made me realize one major advantage of a microscope is that you are not breathing onto the movement as well as having lots of magnification.

    The point of cleaning is not to make parts nice and shiny, but to leave them chemically clean for the lubricants. His technique certainly eliminates the whole point of cleaning.
     
  2. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Dewey,

    I couldn't watch beyond him holding down the bridge with his finger . . .

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  3. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I had a roamer searock automatic repaired by a jeweller in Wimborne and he left a finger print on the dial. My father could not see it so said it wasn't there, the jeweller was a friend of his. I stopped wearing the watch, it had been a 21st brthday present. No idea where it is now.
     
  4. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    Yeah, that finger on the bridge put me off it as well.

    I fear this one may well turn into one of those botch job stories threads again... Lessons can be learned through them but they usually end up pretty negative.

    A friend of mine turned in a watch for service and crystal replacement at a local watchmaker who has been in business for a long time. The watch was a gift from his wife. The watchmaker didn’t, for some to me strange reason, have access to the “correct” crystal and so put in an unbreakable one where an armored one should have been. Solved the bad fit by gluing the crystal to the dial. My friend didn’t really notice it until I pointed out to him that there seemed to be some kind of residue on the dial. Took the watch back but didn’t get much more from it than his money back I think. It’s sad when people don’t know what to ask for or to expect, especially when it comes to pieces of affectionate value.

    Regards
    Karl
     
  5. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Nothing like seeing how oily your fingerprint is on a mirror-polished ratchet wheel to convince you of the value of finger cots and a good pegwood or plastic stick.
     
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  6. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Like watching a car train wreck. At one point, he uses Rodico on a cap before oiling it and rolls his wheels through it before assembly.

    There are 3 in this series. I viewed all 3.

    But I happen to like dystopian videos.
     
  7. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    At this point I must confess that I use Rodico myself to clean up things. But I do get a fresh blob for each reassembly!
     
  8. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Most brands, including Omega, ban Rodico. It leaves behind a residue and I only use it for removing cap jewels and sticking something in place for photography or such.

    For touching up I use various clean room supplies. There are pointed electrostatic sponges for grabbing dust, surgical cotton swabs for removing finger touches or excess grease with heptane or alcohol, and a vacuum source.

    There is no need to use anything on parts once they come out of the cleaner except for errors, which we all make. But you do not want to interfere with the chemical cleanliness of the part, which is why I keep heptane and IPA on the bench in those pump dispenser bottles with a flow back check valve.

    If it is more than a touch-up, it goes back into the cleaner.

    For me, the scope has really made a difference which I did not think about until I watched those videos. Think about the condensation of your breath when using a loupe. Or dandruff or beard-druff. Not having your nose in the piece really improves the cleanliness.

    And I have not lost a spring or cap jewel on an anti-shock in years. Very controlled when your optics are not moving while your hands are doing something. And at 20X, you can see!

    How are you coming with the scope? After a while your hands know where to go without you thinking about it.
     
  9. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    I'm using it to lube the pallet stones now. Biggest problem still is coordinating my hands to my eyes. Much easier when working through a loupe, because it's right under your nose! Through the scope, if it's not in the field, it might as well not exist!

    I did finally learn how to use the photo tube to take pictures using my iPhone.
    IMG_1740.JPG
    IMG_1746.JPG ....
     
  10. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Rob (I think, I know it is not Gene, we did that already),

    That oiling looks good. When I oil the pallets I use under and over light and tilt the movement so that that the exit pallet is almost face up. I also used an oiler on which I bent the tip.
     
  11. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    I must confess that I've used Rodico for the final clean of the endstones as well. Used in certain ways it leaves a visible residue but when stretched repeatedly so that it's almost white and then used in a pressing, dragging motion it seems to leave nothing at all. Or maybe it's just that it's not a visible residue? I've examined the stones under a microscope under 40x magnification and they look spotless with a clean reflection of light without variations.

    Is the problem with the residue that it promotes the spreading of the oils? Epilames are by their nature a residue but they have the opposite effect. So I some residues have to be non-problematic?

    Regards
    Karl
     
  12. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    The amount of dirt on his bench was enough to turn me off, but I watched all three videos. I could pick out a dozen things easily that made me cringe, but the general attitude is summarized in the second video when he's closing the barrel...

    "This is not the way they taught you in school, but it works and I've been doing it for 40 years."

    The kind of thing you hear from guys like this. Note that he also didn't remove the setting parts for cleaning, which is another thing the "old school" watchmakers say the same thing about "been doing it this way for 40 years!" like that somehow makes it's the right way. How exactly do you clean, inspect parts for wear/damage, and lubricate them if you don't even bother taking the setting area apart?

    I see a lot of poorly serviced watches that come to me, and most of the problems aren't with some complicated process, but simple issues with cleanliness (lack of) and poor oiling. There are hundreds of guys like this out there, and likely they have a loyal customer base as they typically charge very "reasonable" prices.

    Unfortunately many watch collectors don't know what a good service looks like, so they think this is it.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  13. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    Hi Karl,

    Are you referring to the cap jewels? If so, do they not come out of your cleaning machine clean?

    For the most part they do from mine, but on occasions where they don't here is how I clean off small spots of dirt (if they are really not cleaned well, I put them back through the cleaning machine). You need a clean piece of watchmakers paper, and a leather buff stick:

    Cap%20jewel1_zpsohdwqghe.jpg

    Place the cap jewel flat side down on the paper, and use the buff stick to draw the jewel across the paper with some pressure:

    Cap%20jewel2_zps3ilgrvmo.jpg

    You can then use tweezers (I use a size 00 set) to remove the cap jewel from the buff stick, and place it on the bench top, then hold it as you oil the jewel:

    Cap%20jewel3_zpsvaetxddx.jpg

    You can then place the hole jewel on top of the cap jewel, and then place the whole unit in the setting, assuming you are working on a shock protected balance. If not the method for cleaning the cap jewel like this can still work well. In the end if there is any residue left on the cap jewel, the oil will spread as you apply it to the jewel, instead of staying in a tight drop. I don't find I need to use epilame on cap jewels to get a tight drop of oil if the jewel is really clean. Again most time it comes out of the cleaning machine clean and ready to oil, so I don;t always have top clean them like this, but using Rodico will leave a residue behind that will cause oil to spread.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  14. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Al,

    Exactly the method I was taught by Wostep and ETA. I would just add that good tweezers (laid flat) are used to hold the cap jewel against the leather buff while you apply the oil. And that the proper amount is an oil circle more than 50% and less than 75% after the insetting is applied. Takes practice to judge the drop on the cap which is why it helps to have a pump bottle of IPA on the bench. It can only be verified after assembly and before installing. Kind of a pain, but....

    Karl, Al is right. Why are you doubting your cleaning fluids? And yes, Rodico leaves a residue behind that negates your entire cleaning process.

    The whole point is to have chemically clean surfaces before oil or epilame is applied.

    While we are here, there is reason behind brand requirements for lubrication combinations even though it may seem arbitrary. While I use Molykote, many brands no longer accept it because it contaminates cleaning solutions too quickly. I figure a good watchmaker is changing the fluids once a week anyway. But at a service center, it becomes an issue; like WD-40 for a clockmaker.


    I prefer Molykote to high-pressure oils because it will not spread ( I use it at winding/setting and for chronos). I still follow the rule that it should not be visible.

    Oil and grease combinations in the barrel are tested for compatibility by the brands. So try to find the lubes specified by given brands. But even with Teflon mainsprings, I use 8300 in non-auto barrels to increase amplitude.

    Al, what is your opinion and reasoning? Seriously, will not hurt my feelings. People want the pros/cons for how we do things.

    Those videos certainly provided a basis for discussion.
     
  15. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Mostly, I buff cap jewels on a fresh 1/2 sheet of watch paper BEFORE running them through the L&R Master, because that doesn't seem to get rid of the crud rings. Sometimes, there's so much oil or other schmutz that I use Rodico to wipe that off, again before they go in the machine.

    I also polish and peg out all the hole jewels before running through the machine. Afterwards, I inspect all of the caps as they come out of the thimble basket and give them a quick wipe on ANOTHER piece of watch paper before installing - holding them to the light to make sure there's no dust flecks.

    That's for cap jewels for fixed hole jewels. Shockproof jewels almost never come apart before they go through the machine and sometimes not even then. When that happens, they don't come out clean, and even the ones that come apart often have the crud ring on them still, and residue on the hole jewel. There, I confess, I use Rodico - a newly pulled piece! - to sweep the pegwood crumbs off the surface. I suppose I could rinse in fresh Ronsonol after that to remove the Rodico residue.

    I like the buff stick idea! Another item for my next tools order! I've been using the chisel end of a piece of pegwood to drag the cap jewels across the watch paper, and trying to apply enough force to actually clean the jewel while not 'tiddlywinking' the cap jewel into the next county.

    Dewey - Glad to hear the jewel's oiled right. I put a droplet on the cap jewel and then lower the hole jewel onto it, which I find a very delicate operation! Pallet jewels, yeah - over and under light, and the black oiler with the tip bent, after just touching it to the 9415 that stays in the cap of the vial. I'm still probably using too much, and I haven't invested in epilame yet. Baby steps....
     
  16. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Hey, speaking of oils - I was looking at mainspring and barrel greases, and as far as I can tell, they're all 'natural' rather than synthetic. I was under the impression that natural lubricants are only good for service intervals of a year or so, but is that just the oils? Can I use, for example 8301 on the barrel walls of automatics, and 8200 on the mainsprings themselves, and still go with a longer interval? I have too many watches to be doing them each every year or so!
     
  17. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    Not really doubting the solutions per se but sometimes a cap jewel comes out with a speck of dirt still on it. Usually that is on watches that have been sitting in a drawer for a few decades, unused. Organic lubricants that have turned into a tough laquer. At times I have used a chisel shaped piece of pegwood to scrub any residue and remaining resin off and then Rodico to get any remains off. I'll have to reevaluate that practice.

    Thanks for the advice!

    Regards
    Karl
     
  18. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    I would follow the teflon rule(no grease) unless you know the brands recommendation. The action of the braking grease is very important.
     
  19. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    I'm dealing with 50 year old Elgin-branded A Schild autowind movements, and there's nothing in the spec sheets I can find that makes a recommendation on lubricants. So far, I've been leaving the barrels alone, apart from cleaning the exterior and lightly oiling the barrel arbor shoulders. Primum non nocere and all that. And as always, only my own watches.

    EDIT: Actually that makes me wonder when the Swiss started with specific lubricant recommendations/requirements. I think these predate most currently available Moebius oils and greases.
     
  20. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Can you get new springs for them? If so, I would not lube the spring but use braking grease on the walls and something like D-5 on the arbors.

    If the springs are not available and the amplitude of the untouched barrels is acceptable you might call it a day. If not, you might consider removing and cleaning the mainspring from one. In all likelihood, it will be stainless. See how it works after being cleaned with heptane and installed dry except for the braking grease. See what happens to amplitude with grease next. Be sparing with grease, maybe five small dots on the coils.
     
  21. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    I prioritize performance over cleaning solutions, so I also use grease in the setting area and on chronograph cams, etc. I used to use Molykote DX, but I have been using 9405 for some times now and it also works quite well. It's bright blue, so application needs to be precise for it not to stick out like a sore thumb. I typically change my cleaning solutions every 10 movement cleanings, but I do keep a mental note of how dirty the movements are going in. Of course there are disks that you can get from Swatch for example that can be run through the machine and checked after to assess the cleanliness of the solutions, but I've never felt the need to use those.

    I do try to "save" the solutions to a certain extent, so for example before I put a disassembled movement in the cleaning machine, I usually soak the mainspring barrel (typically the dirtiest part, in particular on an automatic barrel with Kluber P125 or something in it), by soaking it in a jar of 99% alcohol, and then using those precision tipped Q-Tips to clean the barrel out. It all goes directly into the cleaning machine right after that.

    Omega%20Constellation%2016_0058%20copy_zps7sekgcxb.jpg

    This is the only situation where I use any solvent at the bench personally - to clean something immediately before running it through the cleaning machine. If I screw up on a cap jewel, or find some other reason that I need to clean something, I always take it back to the cleaning machine. IMO no bench top cleaning will equal what you get coming out the cleaning machine.

    I will also delay putting a really dirty movement in the cleaning machine until I'm ready to change the solutions. So I'll clean that one, change the solutions, and then clean it again. In my view there's never a need to rush anything in watchmaking - I have enough watches to work on and things to do that if I have to drop a set of jewels in the cleaning machine and run them for 20 minutes through a cycle, I can be doing something else in the mean time. There's never a shortage of small tasks that need to be done, so I'm never left "waiting" for anything in the cleaning machine.

    I do not oil new pre-coated mainsprings, and I don't put oil on the bottom of the barrel drum like the guy in that video did. I certainly don't press the new spring in with my fingers, and use sharp tweezers to poke at it (can't help but think he's put nicks in the spring that will lead to a failure). I use a small brass tool I've made to press the spring directly into the barrel:

    Mainspring%20installation_zpskworu41y.jpg

    The only time I would oil a mainspring is when I would use one again, and for me that is a rare thing, because I pretty much always replace the mainspring in every watch I service. The only exceptions would be when I simply can't find a new spring...

    When I do oil a mainspring, it's done in a specific way. The first thing is of course running it through the cleaning machine, and then inspecting the spring for faults, so not laying flat, wavy surfaces, kinks, nicks, etc.:

    MSoil2_zpsaeraw6qj.jpg

    This is the one exception where I do clean a part after it's been in the cleaning machine, so I use watchmaker's paper and alcohol again:

    MSoil3_zpshput1709.jpg

    Soak a piece of the paper in the alcohol, and draw the spring through it between the tweezers:

    MSoil4_zps7m2vkxcm.jpg

    Most likely you will see some dark spots, so keep repeating this until it comes away clean:

    MSoil5_zpsknog6dgp.jpg

    Take a new peice of paper, apply a small drop of oil to it:

    MSoil6_zpslglzcfgs.jpg

    Draw the spring through the oiled paper:

    MSoil7_zps09pnpzwd.jpg

    Then draws it through a clean piece of paper, lightly holding the paper with the tweezers, and this will leave a very thin film of oil on the spring, which is all it needs:

    MSoil8_zpsfavnpmsg.jpg

    Then into the winder, and press it into the barrel.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  22. wrobbie

    wrobbie Registered User

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    Very interesting thread!

    I've never heard of these, do you have more information on this?

    I've been having some issues lately with my rinses, in that I think that the parts are not entirely clean, but have a microscopic film on them. Everything looks spotless under the microscope, but oiling (especially endstones) behaves differently, i.e. spreads too much.

    My cleaning solution is Elma 9:1 and my final two rinses are something which I think is very similar to naphtha, if I go by smell. The rinse is bought in anonymous 2L containers from the only watchmaker supply shop in Singapore. The next step up is a 5L barrel of Bergeon fluid, which is insanely expensive (I'm not a professional). In the past I've used pure ethanol as final rinse, which works really well but is bothersome because you can't put shellac in it.

    Next on the wishlist: surgical sponge swab sticks :)
     
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  23. karlmansson

    karlmansson Registered User

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    You can put shellac into IPA, just not for very long. If you just use it for a final rinse and don’t go over a couple of minutes at room temp, there is a very small risk of the shellac dissloving. It will pit freshly applied shellac though.

    I switched over to all commercial solutions not too long ago. But I have the same problem that you have: a gallon of L&R cleaner set me back about 65 dollars in the end, once the charge for shipping of flammable goods came in. Got one jug of cleaner and one jug of rinse. Both at 65 dollars each. Still cheaper than the Bergeon stuff I can get a hold of in Sweden. Bought the L&R from Germany.
    Before I got those I used IPA as both first and second rinse (switched place for the second to first after a few cycles) and Elma Red as a clean.

    You kind of need to use a hygroscopic rinse if you use a water based solution. Otherwise water may stay in screw holes and such and cause rust.

    Regards
    Karl
     
  24. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Al,

    Very good post. It is great you included why you do things the way you do. Soap and water with a sawdust dryer simply cannot compare with modern cleaning procedures.

    I want to add that I the t-tip swabs made of surgical sponge sold to electronic component makers. I also have a Smith and Nephew surgical suction unit I got off ebay that is used on every watch.

    And you emphasize that a watchmaker must be willing to take the time to make tools for the jobs.

    Rodico is only used for removing cap jewels from incablocs before cleaning and sticking something down for inspection or removal from a collet after which it will be cleaned again. I have had the same stick for over 10 years.

    I avoid using IPA on steel (potential for rust) and use lab grade heptane mainly. Non-professionals shrink at the cost of cleaning materials (like finger cots and solutions) but they are a real value.

    Adding precleaning to the process is extremely important for me since I do a lot of Hamilton 37500s, Chronoflites, A-13s, CDIAs, marine chronometers, etc. The aircraft clocks in particular are extremely messy. I have the L&R with the 3 qt jars that I use with spent cleaner and rinse from the final cleaning machine. This can also be done using dedicated jars in a bath in a standard ultrasonic tank.

    Many of the things I do have no mainsprings available through the material houses. SO, I have had springs made for everything I listed above. When I went to Neuchatel in 2010 I visited the factory that made most of them for me and met with the owner and he explained to me that modern Teflon coated springs need no lubrication but will do no harm.

    In class, we were still instructed to grease the springs (5 dots on bottom, 5 dots on top) even with my report from the manufacturer.

    Personally, I do not add grease to wrist watches and certainly not automatics (bridle grease only). But I do grease the larger mainsprings, especially the Aircraft clock springs and have measured an amplitude increase of 10 to 15 degrees when I tested a couple clocks with their mainsprings both ways.

    This is important to me for timing reasons and because I do not want a pilot/owner yanking a clock during my 1 year warranty (or even a year after) because the clock became unreliable.

    I hope readers appreciate the time you took to provide such a detailed description of your procedure.

    BTW, I am sending you a Private Message.
     
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  25. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Al,

    Forgot to add that you may now understand why I use Molykote. The A/C clock chronos have higher pressures and it does not hurt the vintage wrist chronos. I do far more larger instruments than I do wrist watches.

    You and I are examples of why a watchmaker must think through what is the most appropriate for their niche. We have much more in common than we differ and like any professional watchmaker, we adhere to clean room type procedures when it comes to preparing a piece for assembly.

    I do not have a workroom that meets current Rolex standards (positive pressure). And I often work with open windows. But, my dirty machines (buffer, surface grinder, etc) are in a sperate room and my machine tools are a minimum of 10 feet from my assembly bench. And those are my WW, micro drill and Sherline mill which is 15 feet down the small machine bench. Large lathe and vertical mill are in the corner opposite to my bench. I use oil in the carbide grinder to keep the dust out of the air. Dremel tool is also 10 feet from my bench.

    No filing or polishing is done at my assembly bench.

    Bench and tools are wiped down with IPA or heptane when each new ob is taken from the final cleaning machine. If I need to spot clean, I use solution from one of the pump dispensers with an anti flowback device.

    Cleanliness is checked under a microscope. Dust removed with suction or surgical sponge (pith is too crumbly).

    Oilpot tops are returned down after every pickup.

    For the readers of this thread, these are some of the little things that make a huge difference in the end. They become automatic after a short while.
     
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  26. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    These are small metal disks that are epilame coated and used to test the cleaning ability of solutions. To summarize the procedure, you run three if these disks through the cleaning machine, let them dry and come to room temperature, then apply a drop of test oil to the disks. You wait for 20 to 40 minutes, and look at how the test oil has spread on the disks to determine if the solutions are good or not.

    This was all outlined in Omega Work Instruction 27, but the latest version has all this information eliminated, so not sure this is a standard procedure anymore. The disks were one time use only, and it required to special test oils to be purchased as well. Of course you would need a parts account to order these items...

    Cheers, Al
     
  27. Al J

    Al J Registered User

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    Indeed - the key to good work is being diligent in everything you do. Most if us work alone, and have no one looking over our shoulders every day checking the work. Customers are largely uneducated regarding what a good service is, so we are left to determine/maintain our work quality largely by ourselves.

    Once it becomes habit, you don't give it a second thought - it's just what you do.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  28. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    I'm loving this discussion. One can only learn so much from books (especially Fried, right Dewey?) Things like, the CLEAN part of Clean, Oil, Adjust is way more important than the OIL part. Understanding that, so that when you get poor amplitude you don't think, "Add more oil!" but instead say, "What's still dirty?".

    I'll never approach your level (Positive pressure? My bench is in the DINING ROOM!!), but it gives us a standard to aspire to.
     
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  29. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Rob(:???:)

    I am working with a student in Sweden and I have decided to write a page on my website about adjusting. Most people leave school (including me) with a fairly confused notion of just what the procedures are and why. I have re-read Jendritski again and finally things clicked.

    This came to the fore because I am preparing several Hamiltons for a customer who wants them back to factory. A M22 and two 950Bs. All are now within 5 seconds across 8 positions. The M22 and one 950B were fairly straightforward and I had them within an hour and 3 or four trials (timing in the four quarters plus the 4 intermediate positions; takes about 10 15 minutes in each trial).

    The second 950B had a checkered past. The balance bridge was pigeared to take up end shake caused by a broken pivot that was also reduced so that it vibrated in the hole. The lower motor barrel jewel was shattered. the balance spring stud screw hole was stripped. There was even a timing washer on one of the screws.

    The stud screw has to be tight or the watch will loose amplitude like a insecure clock does. The rest were straightforward corrections but needed to be done.

    The watch took 15 trials, with each trial revealing a closer grouping until I got to 4 seconds variation across the 8 vertical positions. It is like zeroing in rifle sights.

    I am going to write up the steps involved and why. Things like beat, isochronism, draw, slide, lock as the first things to be addressed. Then the procedure and time required to adjust to position.

    When the staffs of these pieces need to be replaced, Fried sez immediately poise the balance. In fact, these balances will be out of static poise by virtue of the positional adjustment. Following Fried and others, the worker would destroy the positional adjustment just to satisfy Fried.

    After restaffing, check the positional adjustment before altering anything. Please.

    Poising is not an end unto itself.

    Anyway, I forsee a treatise/tome on how all the above factors and the natural escapement errors come into play when it comes to final watch performance. For professionals, that is the result of most importance. The prettiness of clean plates is simply something that happens in the process.

    I have found that more my visitors read on my website, the more they are likely to become customers. Plus I hope it helps younger watchmakers.
     
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  30. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Do you shake your head on what Omega listed as acceptable for vintage watches like the 550/750? The old WD were a very good tool to have. They even used them at school.
     
  31. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Dewey(It's Doug, actually), a stepwise description of adjusting a poorly adjusted watch would be great, especially with the logical progression outlined. In my own work in the lab, I obsess over making sure I understand a protocol inside and out, step by step, before I pick up a pipet. Same for cooking, too. So in watch repair, I always like my theoretical understanding to run far ahead of what I attempt at the bench.

    I have changed a handful of staffs (numerically, not volumetrically), and never tried to adjust static poise. Entirely laziness on my part, but now I'm glad I didn't start undercutting screws, or worse, filing them! Dynamic poise makes so much more sense than static - get the wheel, roller, and staff to perfect poise, then add a (relatively) enormous brass collet with a big slot cut in it, and pretend it's still balanced?
     
  32. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Doug (will help me remember!)

    OK. I made a public statement and now must live up to it. I just have to figure out how to organize it without circling back and without doing a linear regurgitation of the theory. I have some ideas but this is where Lukas can come in. He is in the middle of it.

    Like you, I love precision measurement. Just wish I knew more about chemistry; tried a high school AP chem book but when they got rid of shells and started testing the flavors of particles I gave up. I may yet pick up a copy of chemistry for dummies. Annoys me.

    Regards,

    Dewey
     
  33. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    This is a great article that turned a video of poor procedure into a positive ! I have a Bunn model 2 that had a fingerprint on the plate that actually etched itself into the gild . Like many of you I am just a hobbyist that took it up a notch , a parts washer is indispensable , keeping the area clean is my challenge , kitty cat has finally stopped playing with parts and laying on the bench ! I worked on toyotas 20+ years , as I was leaving they had taken auto trans rebuilds out of our hands because there is no shop clean enough for it .
     
  34. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
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    Kevin: I no longer really believe in this "etching" lore. At least in this recent case I dealt with, it was just a stain, and it cleaned off with the proper chemistry: Fingerprint etching, again?
     
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  35. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    Maybe ....

    552811fd473626c335f00407c8c0b6d0.jpg
     

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