Who has read the Tourbillon book by Steffen Pahlow

Discussion in 'Horological Books' started by berntd, Jan 19, 2010.

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  1. berntd

    berntd Registered User

    Jun 21, 2009
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    Hello, has anyone seen this book?

    Is it worth getting?

    Kind regards
    Bernt
     
  2. Ansomnia

    Ansomnia Registered User

    Sep 11, 2005
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    Bernt, I have a copy of this hardcover book.

    I also confess I have not had the free time to really delve into it (I am trying to live 5 lives while sharing the only one I have with other people. So it's impossible.). What I do know about this book is that it is unique. It appears to have been self-published. It is profusely illustrated and all the photos and beautiful illustrations are in colour. Even the text is in colour. Perhaps this is partly why the book had to be self-published as a limited run and why it is not cheap.

    IMO, the book was written by an exceptionally-gifted watchmaker who also happens to be extremely passionate about horology and about the tourbillon pocketwatch. From reading some parts of the book, it appears Mr. Pahlow is also quite computer-literate. The printed text is in larger-than-normal font size, and is easy to read at arm's length (very handy for the retired, older generation of watchmakers).

    The book was originally written in German and the English version is a translation. Mr. Pahlow notes that he expects English readers may stumble across a few odd sentences and he invites them to contact him by email with their comments. I find the English translation generally straightforward although sentence structures do often reflect the original German text and so non-German speaking readers will notice it.

    But idiosyncratic German sentence structure has mainly to do with emphasis constructed by ordering ideas in particular sequences with precise attention to punctuation and so attentive readers will find it logical. German is very similar to Old English in this sense. It is a careful and formal (written) language - not colloquial like the English language of today. So most English readers should be able to follow the discussions and get used to this "German accent". It's a bit like reading English written in the 19C and earlier or like listening to a German speaking good English but with the odd sentence structure from a German perspective, sounding somewhat antiquated and formal in mannerism. A few words in German do crop up in one or two labels inside drawings that were originally labeled in German but everything else is in English.

    This is a book written by and written for someone who is crazy about tourbillon watches. You have to read it from cover to cover to really make proper use of the book. It does not have an index but does have a very detailed table of contents. So you see what I mean. Only when you have read the book will you know where to find everything. It does have an incredible amount of illustrations to aid look-ups but only when you have read the book and made notes will you be able to take advantage of all the information.

    If you are very interested in tourbillons I think you really have no choice but to somehow get your hands on a copy of the book. Price is a subjective matter. It didn't bother me but for some people, this would come across as an expensive book. Limited run books are always expensive. But OTOH, if you deem this book expensive then you should also stay away from anything to do with tourbillons.

    I do not own a tourbillon watch and my interest here is mainly in the skills involved in making such watches. I prefer simpler watches and clocks - I try to keep thing simple. But by understanding the skills involved with making tourbillons I seek to apply some of these lessons to making simple mechanisms with better workmanship.

    I hope you find these comments helpful.


    Michael

    P.S. It's a shame this book does not have an index. The text is obviously in softcopy form but the book was probably published with a page-layout package designed more for brochures and web design. I know a simple trick that will generate an accurate index quite easily. Perhaps I will send Mr. Pahlow an email after all.
     
  3. berntd

    berntd Registered User

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    Hi Michael

    Wow, that was a really interesting review!
    I saw his video clips on youtube and he appears really good at waht he does.

    Ist this book a technical documentary on how to make such a watch or is it more of an art book that shown many watches and movements, together with an explanation and theory?


    By the way, in his email reply to me, the author said that he sends this book in English all over the world and has not had any critique yet.
    Perhaps you send him that email :)


    Kind regards
    Bernt
     
  4. Ansomnia

    Ansomnia Registered User

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    Bernt, the book is not an art book. It's very technical, fussy and precise, like German books tend to be... more so than most English books. I have never seen a book with so many detailed drawings on one watch.

    It appears to teach the reader how to make a tourbillon but not having read the whole book or executed the instructions, I cannot account for how complete and effective the instructions are, although they do appear very detailed.

    The book has a light and a heavy side. On the light side, the author recounts the history behind the tourbillon and his own personal journey in making his watches.

    The heavy side is very technical and describes how to make a tourbillon pocketwatch from scratch. An amateur can read it but making a tourbillon is not at all an amateur's project. Success will only come from an experienced watchmaker. The enthusiast will see what is involved but will have to "pay ALL his dues" and learn everything about making simple watches before attempting this project.

    You have to understand technical terms and have good experience working on and making watches to try to make a tourbillon. But this does not take away the lessons one can learn about technique and work discipline that comes with understanding the process.


    Michael
     
  5. movement2009

    movement2009 Registered User

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    #5 movement2009, Jan 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2010
    The book is very expensive, but everything is diy and not professional,
    1. the English translation is diy, so very poor English and very difficult to read. I hope he spend some money to hire a professional translation to work for him!!!
    2. the photo of the books are very poor, very low resolution, I can't believe the color separation of the printing is such poor, I think he just use the web photo (low resolution) for the book!!!
    3. this book is a documentary telling every parts he made, comes with dimension, technical drawing, only a few section cover the tourbillon cage!!!
    Further, in the most important page talking about the unit, modules and number of teeth, he use "letters" "a", "Z/z" "D" 'd" "Dg", but none of his content telling what is the meaning of this letter, so finally you cannot know what is the module, number of teeth and dimention!!!
    Also the technical drawing are not professional!! They don't have tolerance! and it is just a brief dimension, I don't think you can make any part by following the dimentions without contact the author!!!
    If you want to explore the secret or the technique in making the tourbillon, you will be very disappointed with this book. George Daniel's book are far better, both in price, content and theory. No theory in this German book. He just stated how he make his watch.
    4. The advertising in his site stated that the book will be signed by the author (by the time I order it) but when I get the book, the signature is printed!!! nothing is signed, neither the signature, nor the number of the book. It's a shame.
    5. Another frustrating experience is that I have contact the seller about the problem of the bank transfer (they may deduct a small amount of fee) before I pay, the seller didn't response about it and just ask me to send the money, when the money arrived, he said it lack of Euro 20 or30 (can't remember actually), then he hold my order and didn't do anything!!! Finally I have to ask my German friend to send him the few Euros!!!
    6. As mentioned before, the book don't have index, content page!

    So if you really want to know more about tourbillon, go for Geroge Daniel's book or do some more search in the internet. This book full of technical drawing of different screws, plate, crown wheel....every component of a watch.

    In my opinion, this is not a good book and it didn't worth!

    Actually his free y-tube video is far more better than his expensive diy book.
    -> posts merged by system <-
     
  6. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    I bought the book in German before it came out in English and found just the pictures to be well worth the price.

    I have several years of High school and college german and can almost get around German speaking countries so I may be atypical. I did not spend much time trying to read it but a lot of time looking at his pictures.

    I bought this from Pahlow after a long email correspondance. I found I really like and admire him.

    I also recommend his book on making watch cases (only in German).

    It is probably cheaper to deal via Simonin because Pahlow only takes wire transfers which add $40 to the cost. If you buy both it may be better to deal with Pahlow.

    I also have Daniels Watchmaking and Masterpieces of Contemporary Watchmaking which I also recommend but nothing does what Pahlow does.

    If you can, buy the book, buy them both.
     
  7. Ansomnia

    Ansomnia Registered User

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    #7 Ansomnia, Jan 20, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
    I think readers should examine the issues with a clear head, without getting emotional about it. I would like to add the following comments to clarify some of the issues brought up by movement2009.

    "diy"
    movement2009 criticized the book for being "diy" or DIY (do-it-yourself). In the publishing industry, there is a segment whereby authors choose to publish their own books rather than have a known publisher take on their title and take commissions for their services. "Self-publishing" normally uses the services of a printing company and there are no royalties held back by the printer. The author just pays for the cost of printing a certain minimum quantity of books.

    quality of photos
    In my opinion, the author has made a reasonable effort to produce a quality item. Printing a hardcover book is expensive and adding colours to the basic black is very costly. If you add colour photos, it is worse still. Until you have actually tried to publish a full colour, hardcover book, you simply don't realize the costs and significant hassles involved. The colour photos in this book are not the sharpest but are suitable for the task and I have seen far worse in professionally-published books. The colour technical drawings are excellently reproduced.

    problematic English
    movement2009 also complained about the English text. I gather English is also not movement2009's mother tongue. This makes for a problematic combination but it is not uncommon in the technical field. If you are an engineer, you need to know some German. If you are a watchmaker and you want to be seriously considered, you need to know French and German on top of knowing English. The top makers know French and German, even if those languages may not be their mother tongues.

    So a technical German book on watchmaking translated into English is not a bad thing and is also rare. Obtaining accurate English translations for technical instructions originally-written in German is problematic because the best translators will not know watchmaking terminology or concepts. You need a bilingual English/German-speaking watchmaker to translate for you. This can get extremely expensive.

    technical details on the cage and wheels
    There seems to be many pages of descriptions and detailed drawings for the tourbillon cage so I don't understand what problems movement2009 is referring to. Perhaps he can explain further.

    As for technical details on the cutter modules and dimensions of the wheels and teeth I suspect they have more to do with the author assuming a certain level of expertise and knowledge in the reader that was perhaps not adequately communicated. IMO, the book is not a blueprint but rather, a detailed discussion on how to make a tourbillion. So many of the details that go into making a regular watch movement are not described adequately for someone unfamiliar with producing a regular movement. You have to already know how to make a simple watch.

    tolerances
    As for tolerances, I am not a watchmaker but as I mentioned earlier, IMO, you really need to be a watchmaker in order to make a tourbillon watch from reading this book. Tolerances have to do with what you can measure - so it depends on your measuring capacity/instruments, something you should have already established with tools you already use for watchmaking. If you try to make a tourbillon from this book without already knowing how to make a pocketwatch you will lack too much of the needed basic knowledge and experience and so you will fail for sure.

    other books on making tourbillons?
    movement2009 alludes to instructions on how to make a tourbillon written by George Daniels. I have not heard of any tourbillon book written by George Daniels so I cannot comment on such a book. I do have Mr. Daniels's books on "WATCHMAKING" and "THE PRACTICAL WATCH ESCAPEMENT". They are wonderful works but should not be compared with the Pahlow book as they discuss different subject matter. Here is a webpage showing books written by Mr. Daniels. I don't see a "tourbillon" title there:

    Mr. Daniels's Home Page

    book is not personally-signed
    I agree with movement2009 about his complaint regarding the book not being individually signed as was advertised by the author. I think the author needs to address and redress this problem. Good point.

    extra bank (wire) transfer costs
    As for the extra charges and the bank wire transfer. I am very familiar with wiring money to German banks. They charge a fee to receive wire transfers from overseas whereas no fee is charged when money is exchanged between German banks. When you pay a German merchant, unless you have an agreement whereby he absorbs the bank fees, you have to specify to your bank that you are covering the "overseas charges" as well as the "local charges". This is standard operating procedures for international transactions.

    If you pay a merchant in Germany with bank wire without first discussing or paying the overseas charges, you will not get a good reception. The same applies to paying UK merchants using bank wire from overseas. I won't discuss other forms of payment to the same countries which unfortunately can also often be problematic.

    DISCLAIMER
    I have no other association with Steffen Pahlow aside from having bought a couple of books from the gentleman. I know his English is limited so I am just stating my opinions here to help clarify matters for the readers.


    Michael
     
  8. movement2009

    movement2009 Registered User

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    #8 movement2009, Jan 20, 2010
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    Well, please forgive my poor English as it is not my native language but I think it is readable, I try and work very hard to improve my English:D
    Please be understand that I just compare this expensive book with my other books(in horology, craft, art, music, gun, knife.....) and give my comments, others may have different experience.

    "diy"
    It depends on the author how to treat his "work/profolio", serious author sure will request at least a minimum "professional" quality or the highest quality, e.g. the basic design of a book, the quality of the photo can meet the basic requirement of a standard quality....now we are talking a book over Euro200!!!
    I bought other books from German and their quality (both in content, photos and book design) is excellent. I can see how these people work out the books with hearts!

    quality of photos
    The color photos of this book (the technical drawing is o.k. because it is line work drawing, not photo!) are far worse than that of a cheap magazine or newspaper, if the book is just Euro50, it is o.k. but it's cost is over Euro200!!!
    problematic English
    The basic purpose of a book is to pass the information, experience or knowledge from the author to the reader and language is the only tool for this purpose, if the tool is very bad, the book means nothing!!!
    I bought other translated horology/other technical book with other language, like French, Italy, no problem, it all depends on how serious is the author to produce the book, I can tell you, none of the translated book I own cost over Euro100, all with super translation and large amount of photos, they all took the photo seriously-with heart.
    technical details on the cage and wheels
    I have mentioned that most of the pages are technical drawings of every parts of his watch and 'ONLY A FEW SECTION" (the book have over 300 pages) cover the cage.
    For the wheels and pinons, and other parts of the watch, if you already have knowledge in watchmaking, you should know how to calculate and design your own watch, then the information in this book for such parts is nearly no use, but if you have no experience, the book just give you more questions, it means you can just have a technical drawing of every part of the watch, the technical are not in proper way, no tolerances.....Oh, it need to check if he have mentioned the bph of his watch!!!

    tolerances
    Ansomnia is right, if peope have basic knowledge in technical, they will find the tech. draw of this book is not professional! I have build up my measuring capacity and I already know the tolerances of every parts but I want to expand my knowledge so I buy this book to see how he make his watch and how he determine the tolerances but sorry, none information is provide, so I don't know what is the performance of his watch, wehter it is correct made or not (I can just see it is working at his video).

    "If you try to make a tourbillon from this book without already knowing how to make a pocketwatch you will lack too much of the needed basic knowledge and experience and so you will fail for sure."
    Ansomnia's above statement is quite right, the book is not for telling and teaching how to make a tourbillon, but just a "journey of how the author make his own tourbillon with lots of technical drawing" no different with a blog telling personal project, but it just a printed version and he call it a book!
    Don't think you can follow this book and make a tourbillon while I can see someone now making a tourbillon after he read and study Mr. Geroge Daniel's book.

    other books on making tourbillons?
    I Ansomnia have a copy of Mr. Daniel's watchmaking and already read it through seriously!!!

    Mr. Daniels's Home Page

    book is not personally-signed
    I agree with movement2009 about his complaint regarding the book not being individually signed as was advertised by the author. I think the author needs to address and redress this problem. Good point.

    Kiu Tai Yu sign his book and write some message for me while he didn't adversiting that he will sign his book!!!

    extra bank (wire) transfer costs
    I have talk with him before I pay and he can simply as for a few more Euros (but he didn't) and I don't mind to pay for it. the problem is he should have experience with this because he accept bank transfer only and
    What make me crazy is after he recieve the money he told me the amount is deducted and insist me to send/wire transfer him the only Euro20/30 !!!

    If people think this book is rare, yes it is! If you have a lot of money and want to get a rare book in your library, go and get one but this is not the purpose of a book and it is not the reason for me to buy a book.
    If you really want to learn how to making a tourbillon, sorry this book is neither for newbie (they can't understand it) nor for those have experience (they think it is not professional!!!).

    I apologize for talking too much negative about this book but this is just my experience and would like to share with the others!
    I admire the author as he can make a tourbillon (sure I can't!!!) but for his book, I am willing sorry to said it didn't worth to buy one! (just my opinion, so sorry!!!)

    Go for his video and visit everypage of his web site worth everything, it's true, maybe you can buy his book and compare with with his video and contents of his website. His website is excellent as I like the Lorch lathe so much and he has a lot of Lorch staff and he even have a fussee lathe............a wonderful site to know more about German watchmaking .........;)

    Disclaimer: In case there is any mistake in spelling and gramme, please forgive me!:D
     
  9. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    I appreciate movement2009's criticisms but I an also sympathetic to Mr. Pahlow. I only have his German books but they are both signed and I think them well worth the price.

    What I would ask movement2009 to consider is how much work and cost go into writing and publishing a book. I am writing an article for the bulletin which runs about 20 pages as I have it now. I am well past 100 hours spent on this effort and, as it is now, it would be seriously criticised. I will spend probably another 20 hours dealing with the editor. That is a step Mr. Pahlow could have taken to improve quality but it would have added even more cost and taken more of his time. Most of the time I spend in writing an article is before the editor sees it so lacking this step has not reduced Pahlow's effort very much.

    Multiply that by the number of pages Pahlow has produced, dealing with and paying a publisher, and then getting it translated into language not familiar to him. It is many many hours, probably enough to have made at least one Tourbillon.

    Watchmakers of Mr. Pahlow's skill who take to time and effort to share their knowledge are rare and I forgive many of their errors.

    Considering all that, the book is a huge bargain.

    If you are serious about making a tourbillon, consider that to make good living at this you need to earn about $100 per hour at work. If this book saves you three hours it has paid for itself.

    If you are buying the book to read and increase your background knowledge you are still getting the results of Mr. Pahlow's considerable labor at a very attractve price. That is where I am and why I so strongly recommend the book. I can't adfford one of his watches, I am happy to have one of his books.

    I appreciate movement 2009 bringing up his issues. It will probably save me from buying the English version and he will assure that people interested in buying the book have realistic expectations. His English ist so viel besser als meine Deutsch that I forgive any errors.
     
  10. Ansomnia

    Ansomnia Registered User

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    I agree with Dr. Jon.

    I think the book is a very good investment for people who want to learn about how a tourbillon watch is made. Movement2009 is wrong when he compares this book with Daniels's WATCHMAKING - they are completely different in focus and serve different purposes. Perhaps movement2009 could not think of a better book because there *is* no other book written on the construction of a tourbillon. BTW, the best German technical books *are usually not* translated into any other language for very good reasons which movement2009 apparently does not seem to appreciate.

    Movement2009 also misquoted me as I did not say the book is not professional. I said the book is self-published, a completely different concept. Maybe movement2009 does not understand the publishing world but by misquoting me, he has just lost most of my respect.

    Movement2009, I understand you were personally annoyed by your experiences but you need to stick to the facts when stating your arguments. Fabricating fiction and using manipulating misquotes to attribute misinformation to other people's comments will not earn you any respect or credibility.

    Therefore, I am going to steer away from turning this into a "dissing contest" and stick to the facts.

    I would say, if movement2009 can find a better book on making tourbillons then he should sell his copy of Pahlow's book and buy the other book. I would be delighted to comment further when he can then post a review of that other book and compare it to Pahlow's.


    Michael
     
  11. Ansomnia

    Ansomnia Registered User

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    #11 Ansomnia, Jan 23, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
    Movement2009, I do not take kindly to being misquoted. What is worse in your case is that you are apparently using misquotes to fabricate additional arguments which you attribute to me. In my view, that counts as dishonesty and manipulation.

    I also know something about the printing business because I used to work for a company that supplied technology for the modern printing industry. What you describe is the old-fashion printing process which is more of a photographic (photo emulsion) process. However, self-publishing or publishing on demand is completely different and uses a computerized process which takes PDF (portable document format) or similar computer files from the author and prints them directly from highspeed, high volume computerized printers.

    The appearance of illustrations in a self-published book is highly-dependent on the imaging technology, the printer settings and the inherent resolution of the computerized printer. It is one of the current drawbacks (amongst others) of this type of printing process. However, its advantages include faster turnaround and lower entry costs for the author. This type of printing is geared towards low volume. Many books simply would not be published otherwise.

    I think your attempts to compare the books by Daniels and Pahlow are naive and superficial. I have already said the books are completely different in focus and serve different purposes. In a nutshell, Daniels discusses "watchmaking in general" covering a broad range of topics and details but does not discuss any particular watch. Pahlow discusses and describes his experiences in arriving at and achieving his goal of making the tourbillon watch described in his book.

    You, on the other hand, appear to have wanted and expected something different and that's also why your search did not end with Daniels's book. The problem is that no one has written a blueprint for making a tourbillon. You are either reluctant or unable to admit neither of the two authors is giving you what you want and what's more is that you don't understand the realities and limitations Mr. Pahlow has to operate under with a 1st edition of an English translation. Your lack of familiarity with Germans add to your anger with the high costs of buying the Pahlow book. You don't seem to understand the realities of a single watchmaker trying to publish a full-colour hardcopy book all on his own. Remember, Daniels published his books after a lifetime of achievements and fame.

    As for Jendritzki, I believe he was Swiss and spent years as an instructor and wrote many years in the Swiss horological journals. His books have been published by Bergeon & Cie as well as the Swiss Watch and Jewelry Journal... etc. They have also had the editorial benefit of having been in print since the 1950s. Steffen Pahlow published his book entirely on his own and his book just got published in 2008. Switzerland is also very different from Germany. They may share German as a national language but it's a bit like saying the Americans and Scots or Englishmen can both speak English.

    Another useful analogy might be to say it's like you are trying to compare a high-end BMW or Mercedes to a low-volume custom-made luxury car. The former will be smooth and predictable, products of many decades of refinement while the latter will be completely new, and have many rough edges but also present refreshing insights... and tend to cost even more than BMWs and Mercedes Benzes.


    Michael
     
  12. To uhr billon

    To uhr billon Registered User

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    #12 To uhr billon, Jan 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2010
    I thank “berndt” asking this question [FONT=&quot]Who has read the Tourbillon Book by Steffen Pahlow[/FONT] . I honor discussions, reviews und criticism, no problem!



    See, before I deleted his comments, I wrote him via YouTube an email:
    Your comment is unfair. Please let the public know: 1. Your real name, 2. that you are a man of genius in watchmaking, further where we can find your workshop and examples.
    Then we have the chance to enter into a fair discussion, but there is no sense to discuss, if you are finding fault with book prices, fees or similar.
    Incorrect is your comparing with G. Daniels book, and least of all your criticism of resolutions of pictures, of drawings, printing, binding, cover and so on. Against better knowledge!
    Regards Steffen
    spahlow@t-online.dewww.s1p.de
    I never got an answer; I never got an email from Hong Kong. movement2009, he did not send the book back, he wanted no money back. I think he is sure; this book keeps its worth! And he knew it is dealt on eBay within about 500 till 1.000 of Euros.
    He, movement2009 is doing well to keep my book; it helps to answer his questions like here on the forum NAWCC (date 12-15-2009, 09:17 AM) when he was asking: need help, zinc block for polishing. Here my answer look page 438 till 445 of my book.
    I am sure he understands my “German English” and I hope he will answer to this statement here to demonstrate the audience where the book tells lies, where one finds wrong technical terms, and which photo is not printed in 600 dpi, and which Autodesk drawing of the 147 drawing pages is wrong and shows false dimensions, and where one finds a misdescription of the 300 components. I will help movement2009 to interpret the letters he was asking for: m=module, D=diameter, Z=teeth number, s=tooth space, a=distance. I will show him to work with the index of the 7 pages of the book content – numbering, how we use it in Germany.
    And last not least I will explain to him the masthead of my book: Touhrbillon, about my passion. (my passion!)
    But I assume he is not willing to appreciate that I only want to pass my experience in making Tourbillons, restorations, and watchmaking in practice by videos and books. (YouTube >> Steffen Pahlow)
    Don’t worry be happy! Steffen Pahlow
     
  13. berntd

    berntd Registered User

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    Hello Steffen

    Welcome here!

    I am very glad that you did decide to join this discussion ! :D

    Almost all comments about your book, including from Movement2009 were actually pretty positive and I hope that the end of this discussion will be a positive outcome for eveyone involved!

    May I say here that I take my hat of and bow to you because you are a really, really talented watchmaker and thank you for the great videos on youtube !!!!!


    Kind regards
    Bernt
     
  14. Ansomnia

    Ansomnia Registered User

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    Steffen, welcome to the discussion thread! I'm also glad you are able to share your side of the story with us.

    As usual, there are at least 2 sides to any disagreement. What helps to resolve a disagreement is if the dissenting parties would express themselves objectively and discuss in a factual manner ... and nothing else.


    Michael
     
  15. neighmond

    neighmond Registered User

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    I didn't get to read it yet, but I want to. When does another print run come out?
     
  16. Richard Watkins

    Richard Watkins Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    A belated comment. Having done several translations I am well aware of the task. Most importantly, the cost of a professional translator is huge, many thousands of dollars. In fact it is simply far too expensive unless a book has large print runs and sales so that the cost can be spread out. For a book like this one it would be impossible - it would much more than double the cost.

    There are only two ways to get specialist, small print run books translated: Do it yourself or find someone willing to do it for free. The latter OK, but finding someone who has the necessary technical expertise and the language skills is almost impossible.

    In fact the best way is collaboration. At the moment I am helping translate a French book into English. I am only doing this because the author has good English skills and he is doing the translating. My main role is to improve the English from "good with some strange sentences" to "very good" and sort out some problems with technical terms. The process is quite fast. The author produces an English draft (which is easy because he knows what he is trying to say) and I convert it into "professional" English (which is easy because I understand the subject). Doing it this way will result in a good translation in a few months, whereas the other way could take a year.

    It would have been better if Steffen Pahlow had found someone like me to work with, but where do you find someone with the time and willingness to spend the many, many hours involved? And who also knows something about tourbillons? Sadly, I doubt if such a person exists.
     
  17. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I have restored most of this thread, with some editing and have left a few posts behind that didn't further the conversation. Please try to keep the thread productive:D
     
  18. movement2009

    movement2009 Registered User

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    So bad that all my positive suggestions to Mr. Steffen is neither restored nor edited by the moderator!!!

    I must make it clear that I really want to return this book and get a full refund. I don't ask him about it because I don't want to cause anyone trouble!!! And page 438 till 445 can't answer my question about my question about black polishing with zinc block! One of the reason is that I can hardly understand his Germanish English.

    I still want Mr. Steffen to explain the meaning of "ALL"the letters in page 7 because this lacking information are the "Soul" of the whole technical drawings in his book, I think other owners of the book also want to know about it (if they really read and study this book!!!), he only explain a few of it in his previous reply.

    I hope Mr. Steffen can stated clearly how many copies of his English version book will be printed as it is a limited edition book.

    I hope Mr. Steffen can sign and number all the book for his customers, just as what he advertised in his website, not print his signature.

    I also hope Mr. Steffen can stated clearly how many parts is made by himself and how many parts(which parts) are from old watches.

    Can we say you are copying tourbillon pocket watch from A Lange as the design and the structure are very similar, nearly the same, and the main difference is you Engrave your name on the plate? (shown in your books), you also mentioned your watch meet the Glashutte standard, is this authorized by A. Lange? I am not sure you are making your own tourbillon pocket watch or you are copying A. Lange's. If it is a copy, then it is illegal if it is not authorized by A. Lange because you use it for making profit.

    For the technical drawing, is that you copy exactually the dimensions from old parts of A. Lange tourbillon pocket watch?

    Some hints in self-print book: buy a good digital camera (not expensive now!), take photos with higher resolution and send it to the printer, this can sure no "pixelize" photo appear on the self print books.

    P.S. Jendritzki, hmmmm..........., sure he is not Swiss!:D
     
  19. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #19 harold bain, Feb 9, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
    Movement 2009, I will let your comments regarding the contents of the book remain, in the interests of having a fair dialogue regarding your concerns.
     
  20. movement2009

    movement2009 Registered User

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    #20 movement2009, Feb 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2010
    Thanks Harold, sorry I have no chance to read any replies after my previous post before the "edit".

    Please understand that I have no intention to dispute anything with the author anymore, it is not health! My last post shows what I can experienced after reading the book and have some questions hovering in my mind and I just think others may also interesting to know more about it.
     
  21. To uhr billon

    To uhr billon Registered User

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    #21 To uhr billon, Feb 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    You discuss about me and my “deeds”. But what ever do you know about me? So, let me tell you:
    I start my passion watchmaking in 1965. Experienced watchmaker trained me. Most of them lived in the famous city Glashütte in Saxonia (Germany), where the well known manufactories were and are settled until today. Besides watchmaking I was teached in making cases for pocket watches. In 1980 I delved into Tourbillon construction. My first Tourbillon, flying cage, was finished in 1985. Altogether I completed four Tourbillons include its cases. I’m able to make everything in my workshop, excluded raw rubies, enamel dials, diamonds, raw hairsprings or crystals. (look >> youtube >> steffen pahlow).
    My first book I edited “Das klassische Taschenuhrgehäuse” (case making) publicated 1987, second edition in 2006.
    My second book “To uhr billon, über meine Passion” followed in 2001.
    My third book “To uhr billon, about my passion” is on the market since Nov. 2008.

    I don’t run watch, clock business in any kind, and I don’t sell any kind of watches, tools. I’m an architect by profession settled in Bad Nauheim, Germany.

    I like every criticism, if it is verbalized open-hearted, free and not anonymous, the latter because everyone should know who’s behind!

    Referring to my books I don’t discuss about book-price, bank-fees, and costs of transferring, paper or design. I know that my books are professionally produced, and are in condition, in photo-resolution and design on a par with every book whether written by Jendritzki or Daniels, (or movement 2009).

    Concluding I quote from my correspondence with Hans Jendritzki who lived in Hamburg, Germany:
    Let me translate the last sentence of one letter as noted below:

    …at the end I don’t like to forget to verbalize with my admiration the great achievement making Glashütter – Tourbillons and in addition making this book…


    xyzzytom_54147


    I hope we will discuss the construction of the treated Tourbillon and my watchmaking which I want to transfer to everyone to animate all in making fine watches.
    At the second page of my book is written a request:

    The author translated his book into the English language. It is possible that the reader trips over a word order or does not understand a predication. Trying to get a beautiful book, also to improve his knowledge the author is pleased about to hear a review. spahlow@t-online.de

    Thanks Steffen Pahlow
     
  22. coltraneman

    coltraneman New Member

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    I am very interested in getting this book...can someone please enlighten me who "Simonin" is?

    Many thanks in advance!;)

     
  23. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    Simonin is a Swiss book dealer.

    The benefit if dealing with Simonin is they take credit cards and Pahlow, last time I checked, only takes wire transfers which add $40 to the cost.

    Here is a link to Simonin

    http://www.booksimonin.ch/accueil.asp
     
  24. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
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    To expand on Dr. Jon's post:


    Antoine Simonin, located in Neuchatel Switzerland today is a publisher and dealer in horological books.

    I would say that internationally he is the best stocked specialist horological book dealer globally. He carries most important current titles in stock and at all times has thousands of used horological books in stock.

    His biggest strength is that he is a trained watchmaker and expert in horological education (He was Director of WOSTEP before he retired), and as former longtime President of CHRONOMETROPHILIA (the Swiss horological) collectors association he also knows a lot on historic clocks.


    He is absolutly fluent in French German and English (as is Sonja his assistant).

    So visit www.booksimonin.ch/
     
  25. Ralph B

    Ralph B Registered User

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    "He is absolutly fluent in French German and English (as is Sonja his assistant). "

    Unfortunately, due no doubt to a deprived up-bringing, I am not.
    Consequently, as his catalogue seems to be almost entirely in languages other than English, it isn't a lot of use to me.

    Pity, as what little I can sort of understand looks interesting.

    Ralph B.
     
  26. berntd

    berntd Registered User

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    PayPal would be great!

    In any case, that swiss site is very interesting!

    Regards
    Bernt
     
  27. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Simonin. He seemed quite fluent in English and was thoroughly charming.
     
  28. Betzel

    Betzel Registered User

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    Hello,

    I have watched all 37 (?) of the author's videos on you tube, visited his personal website, seen previews of the book itself and read the various comments here. At this point I'd very much like to own the two books --even to the point of learning German to understand them, but cost (n.b. not the price/value) is a factor for me right now.

    If anyone has purchased either the tourbillon book or the casing book in any language and no longer wants it, for whatever reason, I would like to try and purchase it/them so I can have these works in my small collection to pursue when I someday (God willing) will have the time to make them my passions as well.

    If interested, please contact me privately via PM and describe your terms of sale. I hope this type of conversation is permitted here and solves a problem for anyone who needs this kind of problem solved. Just trying to help. Vielen Dank.
     
  29. berntd

    berntd Registered User

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    Hello,

    Well, yes, you and many others (like myself) have the same problem.
    There is only one thing for it: Save enough to buy the books.

    Regards
    Bernt
     
  30. movement2009

    movement2009 Registered User

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    Hello, I have this book and I found it is completely useless to me and I don't want it but I can't sell it to you because I don't sell(or give) anything to anyone when I think the item is not a good one, no matter what is the price, sorry!

    I hope I was allowed to share further of my experience of this book to other members:

    I was also lead to the author's web site by the youtube advertising and believe the author's book is talking about how he "design" and "make" a tourbillon which meets the A. Lange standard and comes with precision technical drawing that allows reader to know more detaily about each parts of the high standard German tourbillon, but I found it is just an assembly watch! He gather all original parts, or alter the existing parts from other watch and assembly the watch, even the base place is the original ebauch!!! He make just the missing parts and assembly the watch! I would prefer call it assembly watch or for better terms, call it "restoration" from lots of existing parts! I also so disappointed that the technical are copy (scan)from existing parts but lack the details. I even can't find the tooth angle of a simple ratchet wheel!!!

    By the time you saving the money for this book, I would suggest you to learn how to read the special dimensioning of those "precision" technical drawings of this book, most dimension are without leader! Here is a closer look at the technical drawings:

    t5.jpg

    I also see how "professional" the author mark the "taper" dimension!!! Just cool! I can post a further photo showing this "professional" method if any of you want to see!

    Personally I use Solidworks, and my previous job nature allows me to read and approve many different kind of tech. drawing from US, UK, Germany, Italy and Spain, so bad now I can't read this kind of tech. drawing, I still need to learn more:D

    I would also like to know how the author make an escapement wheel that is just 0.05mm below the potence, what will be the end shake and side shake of the staff so as to avoid jam?

    I would also like to know how the author make a wheel or pinnon with module size of M0.235 or M0.172, M0.174,
    A module cutter with just a different of 0.002! Wow, I really want to see such skill to make it but sorry, can't find anything from this book!!!
    Anything change in the module size results in change of the resting dimension of the wheel train and provided dimensions of the following pages is no use (or need to be correct according to the actual made module size) any more!!!

    I also want to see the locking angle related to the locking tooth of the escapement wheel(rather important for a good working detent)but unluckily I can't find any dimension about it and it is funny that he draw the different angle in different pages, also the angle is quite different from that of a typical detent-no locking clearance!!!


    I also can't understand why the author said that he doesn't run watch, clock business in any kind? I saw he is advertising his tourbillon book on you-tube/his website and I already bought one from him. My book number is 243, I believe he at least get Euro48600 by selling his book in English version......[FONT=&quot]..[/FONT] oro18.gif
     
  31. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    My experience in writing detailed procedures is that it is very difficult to get it all right.

    If you write for people sufficiently skilled to make a tourbillon and you are one person there will be missing steps and missing dimensions. The perfection of an industrial process typically costs in the neighborhood of $1,000,000, and with all that they still invest in hand finishing and adjusting. I don't see these companies offering their plans and procedures and if they did, I doubt I could afford them.

    In my business we employ teams of people and spend tens of thousands of dollars to document and review processes much simpler than making a tourbillon, and, on a good day, I can still find bunches of dumb things we missed.

    I figure it takes several thousand hours to make one of these watches. If a book saves me 10% of that time, that is a minimum of 100 hours, typically valued in the US at $100 per hour or $10,000. That is not a bad return on the price of this book errors and omissions and all.

    Movement 2009, I look forward to seeing a the book you write after you have made a watch. Perhaps your tips will save someone enough time for you to sell your book at a high enough price to get a fair return on your labor.
     
  32. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
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    I thank all contributors to this thread for their input. I believe both the pro and contra arguments for and against the fair value of the book have been made and further contributions by those who have allready voiced an opinion will NOT add anymore insights but just increase the animosity between the two viewpoints.

    May I therefore -as the moderator of this forum- ask those who have allready posted their views here from posting more opinions in this thread.

    Contributions from new participants to the discussion are of course welcome unless they just rehash what allready has been said.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
     
  33. To uhr billon

    To uhr billon Registered User

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    #33 To uhr billon, Mar 30, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2011
    I thank every member who discussed about my book on this thread:



    All the best Steffen
     
  34. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
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    Although as a matter of principle I hate to censor the expressions of opinion I have decided to close this thread ( and remove the last posting) because I dont want the content driven debate to deteriorate in an endless rehashing of previously expressed opinions about the 'value' of a long ago completedcommercial transaction.
    :(
     

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