which way does it swing?

bruce linde

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this question is about which way the pendulum should (?) swing for even and odd seconds.

i have two setups where i am regulating seconds pendulum clocks next to each other:

1. my gents C7 master clock is in the master bedroom and only runs between 8am and 8pm. it is next to a regulated (within a couple of seconds a week) welch spring & company #2 which is used as its reference. the gents doesn't have a second hand but the two pendulums swing in perfect lock-step throughout the days. i occasionally make a very slight correction to the gents but some of is the amplitude of the initial swings when i start it up each morning.

2. a newly acquired pinwheel jewelers regulator w/ mercury pendulum that is next to a waterbury no. 8 floor-standing deadbeat jewelers regulator. the mercury pendulum doesn't have enough mercury in it so i custom poured a lead slug that slides down from the top of the (unattached) pendulum rod and rests on top of the assembly that holds the mercury and vial in place (until such time i come up with more mercury). the two sweep second hands both move in perfect lock-step for 48+ hours before starting to drift apart.

obviously it's a bit of a luxury to have a regulated seconds pendulum clock next to the one you're trying to regulate... my question is:

is there a tradition of having the pendulum swing to the right on odd seconds (i.e., 1, 3, 5, 7, 9..., etc.)... or even seconds? on my seconds pendulum clocks (with second hands), i prefer odd... i find it easier.

just wondering if other people even care?



1.jpg 2.jpg
 

bruce linde

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both of my reference clocks are to the right of the newer ones being regulated... which makes it a little easier to see when the pendulum on the reference clock swings to the right at 5-10-15 seconds after (for example).

i don't really worry about it on my ST regulator 2s or banjo (or smaller) clocks.
 

novicetimekeeper

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You can't see the pendulums on most of mine, except for a glimpse through the lenticle on some, so it would never be noticeable.
 

THTanner

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If you put them on opposite walls facing each other, then you would want one to swing left on odd and the other to swing right on odd ;)
 

bangster

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Oh, the agony of a wrong direction swing...:(
 

bruce linde

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now i know how rodney dangerfield feels... i don’t get no respect! :)

so that would be ‘no, there’s no real convention for it’... and ‘people don’t really care? ... and, ‘think you might be a little OCD, bruce?’? ;)o_O
 
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Joseph Bautsch

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I don't think either Steven Hawking or Einsten wrote a technical analysis on the subject question. Therefore the only thing I worry about is that it continues to swing for its specified time span and keeps relative good time.
 

shutterbug

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One issue you haven't thought about, Bruce, is sympathetic vibration or at least interaction. Often, when equal swinging clocks are placed beside each other on a wall, they will eventually equalize and swing in unison. That would be a problem if you're trying to time a clock using the other, because when they are separated, the timing may be different.
 

gleber

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Ode to Bruce's woes...

Odd or even, left or right,
Woe is Bruce, but he must fight.
He knows not why no one seems to care,
Lesser questions have answers, this is just not fair.

Oh why did Galileo not scribe a note,
When about the pendulum of which he wrote.
Is left even or is left odd,
All he had to do was give his nod.

His nod would have settled the score for sure,
Alas he's dead, for which there is no known cure.
The question unanswered and so we must wait,
For this forum to engage in its greatest debate.

Odd or even, left or right,
Surely the answer is within our sight.
Let's have a vote, it will be easy,
Is Bruce sane, or is he crazy?!
 

glenhead

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It seems the clocks next to each other should swing opposite each other. That way you can take advantage of gravitational fluxes caused by the bobs interacting with each other to help maintain power and synchronicity. Over millennia I'm quite sure it'll add up to a significant value. Significant, I say. That will also cancel out the swaying imparted into the wall or the floor, and will negate the deleterious effects of the flexion. You may even save the planet by decreasing wear on the crust. Deleterious. Millennia. Significant.

What a fun thing to think about. Something else to drive my wife nuts with! Odd-even odd-even or even-odd even-odd?

Glen
 

Joseph Bautsch

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Never thought about it but I would think left handed people would push it to the right and right handed people would push it to the left.
 

THTanner

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Never thought about it but I would think left handed people would push it to the right and right handed people would push it to the left.
depends on if you can reach it from the front by opening a door or if you have to reach in from the back
 

THTanner

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reminds me of times gone by

Your Left
Your Left
Your Left Right Left

you didn't dare swing the wrong way for long
 

wow

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I was told by my science teacher when I was young that if a thousand cats walked across a bridge, walking in unison left/ right/left/right, the bridge would cave in due to sympathetic vibration. Bruce, I would be worried about my house collapsing if my pendulums all swung together.
 

THTanner

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I have a client who was told never to touch the pendulum because he might "knock the clock out of beat" so he opens the door and moves a small magnet towards the steel rod until it moves toward the magnet. Then he pulls the magnet away to keep the rod from attaching itself to the magnet. Of course this usually set the pendulum swinging in figure 8's, but, hey, he didn't touch it

I gave him a proper lesson, but complemented him on his clever solution
 

bruce linde

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One issue you haven't thought about, Bruce, is sympathetic vibration or at least interaction. Often, when equal swinging clocks are placed beside each other on a wall, they will eventually equalize and swing in unison. That would be a problem if you're trying to time a clock using the other, because when they are separated, the timing may be different.

actually, i have thought about it... but even with sympathetic vibration two adjacent pendulums will eventually un-sync.

in the case(s) of my side-by-side jewelers regulators, being in sync for 48+ hours certainly might be due to some help from sympathetic vibration.

since the gents is heck-a-loud it only runs during the day... all i can tell you is that it syncs up with the ws&c for the entire day.
 

bruce linde

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I was told by my science teacher when I was young that if a thousand cats walked across a bridge, walking in unison left/ right/left/right, the bridge would cave in due to sympathetic vibration. Bruce, I would be worried about my house collapsing if my pendulums all swung together.
that's why i keep buying more clocks... specifically to counter this issue! :whistle:
 

mauleg

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reminds me of times gone by

Your Left
Your Left
Your Left Right Left

you didn't dare swing the wrong way for long
That would be port or starboard for me. This exercise is akin to stereo cuckoos. I'm just happy when I can get most of my clocks to within a minute a week...
 

bangster

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I was told by my science teacher when I was young that if a thousand cats walked across a bridge, walking in unison left/ right/left/right, the bridge would cave in due to sympathetic vibration. Bruce, I would be worried about my house collapsing if my pendulums all swung together.
Cats? "As I was going to St. Ives..."
 

TooManyClocks

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From someone who never posts but has learned from all of you — THANK YOU!! — after reading this thread i can now say i’ve learned all there is to know about clocks, pendulums...and cats!

John
 

Joseph Bautsch

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Do I detect a bit of frustration here?:( Of all the message boards I posted to this is the only one where "most" of the people posting are serious about clocks and still have a sense of humor.:D And for the most part don't take offense at what is said. Learn to laugh at your self not at someone else.
 
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shutterbug

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Pretty entertaining, bangster! :D
 

TooManyClocks

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Do I detect a bit of frustration here?:( Of all the message boards I posted to this is the only one where "most" of the people posting are serious about clocks and still have a sense of humor.:D And for the most part don't take offense at what is said. Learn to laugh at your self not at someone else.
I hope you didnt mean me!:D I laughed like crazy through most of this thread and it was capped off by Bangster’s post:). I’m very new here and if i came across anything other than the fun mood in common with this thread I apologize to you all. You guys have taught me all i know about clock repair and i thank you.

John
 
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G J M

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What if I run across a torsion clock with a seconds hand? Is the direction of rotation seen from the top looking down or the bottom looking up? :D

Gary
 

glenhead

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What if I run across a torsion clock with a seconds hand? Is the direction of rotation seen from the top looking down or the bottom looking up? :D

Gary
For the earth's sake, if you have more than one torsion clock be sure they're not in sync! The combination of the synchronized Coriolis (that's supposed to be capitalized? Who knew?) effect and the synchronized gravitational flux fluctuations will have an additive effect that will eventually be catastrophic. Catastrophic, I say. Millennia. Deleterious. Don't forget significant.

(This is what happens when I'm rebooting nearly 600 machines in our Labs. Start a batch, sit, think, start a batch, sit, think, fix things, think. It's the thinking part that gets me in trouble...)

Glen
 

THTanner

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if you have more than one torsion clock be sure they're not in sync!
these sorts of issues are the cause of the chronosynclastic infundibulum

Chronosynclastic infundibulum. DEFINITION: n. A place, or a moment, where all the different kinds of truths fit together, and where there are many different ways to be absolutely right about everything.
 

G J M

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For the earth's sake, if you have more than one torsion clock be sure they're not in sync! The combination of the synchronized Coriolis (that's supposed to be capitalized? Who knew?) effect and the synchronized gravitational flux fluctuations will have an additive effect that will eventually be catastrophic. Catastrophic, I say. Millennia. Deleterious. Don't forget significant.

(This is what happens when I'm rebooting nearly 600 machines in our Labs. Start a batch, sit, think, start a batch, sit, think, fix things, think. It's the thinking part that gets me in trouble...)

Glen
I know the feeling. The same happens to me when I'm spending who knows how long being able to see the outside world but not being able to talk to it. I'm afraid about 50% of my sit and think time is sit and not think.
Right now all three clocks are in different rooms but I am going to move two in the same room. Being small fixed objects I don't think there will any noticeable change in the Coriolis effect but the gravitational flux may be something. Two clocks in sync = instant diet. I'll take a chance and add the third if I have to.

Chronosynclastic Infundibulum
OOPS! I think I just had an attack
Gary
 

Joseph Bautsch

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John, sorry if I offended you in any way. Sometimes a post can be taken in different ways and the one I took on yours was my fault. Should have known better. Hope to see more posts from you in the future.
 

TooManyClocks

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No offense taken! I should have looked at what i wrote before i posted it to see how it sounded. I need to remember to do that, and it it'll help me learn for a future post. Besides, i just showed up out of nowhere and for all you knew, i could have been some weird goofball :eek: (sometimes my wife thinks i am just that!—might have to do with me bringing about 26 clocks into the house so far...):D

Thank you for your concern and thoughtful response:)

John
 

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