Where is this SQUEAK coming from?

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by shimmystep, May 20, 2015.

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  1. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

    Mar 5, 2012
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    'koos really are not my thing, normally say no.
    So it's up and running after making a new anchor for it amongst other repairs , but there is this squeak I can't locate. Thoughts please folks.

    I've oiled every part of the crutch, hanger wire, leader that has any contact metal to metal.

    [video=youtube;10fk52oYNmA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10fk52oYNmA[/video]
     
  2. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Check for the pendulum rubbing the wood. Also possibly the trapeze is not smooth.
     
  3. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    #3 shimmystep, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
    Thanks shuts. no wood rubbing. I put a piece of paper on the trapeze to stop metal to metal to test that. squeak still squeaking

    removed the pendulum, squeak there, but obviously faster. hung the hanger from a piece of pivot wire so by passing the trapeze wire, still squeaking.

    The squeak correlates perfectly with the sliding off of the entrance pallet. Now this was made to a true mirror finish, and has had a smear of oil.
     
  4. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    Pallet rubbing?
    Wind whistle from the pendulum?
    j/k on the last one.
     
  5. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Sounds like a bellows sound. Is it fully closed on both sides?
     
  6. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    The squeak is usually the tip of a tooth draging
    across a pallet.
    It often happens when fresh oil is applied.
    One thing that seems to work is to place a piece
    of modeling clay where the crutch meets the
    pendulum.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  7. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    Does it squeak if you swing the pendulum without the weight on(no power)?

    Does it squeak if you remove the leader and let the crutch swing alone?

    Or if you pull the crutch to the side and let the pendulum swing alone(not connected to the crutch)?

    A couple of locations I have found in the past is, 1. The trapeze is spread a little wide so the ends of the loops rub on the loop hanger, or 2. The anchor arbor shoulder rubs on the inside of the plate. Not necessarily because of insufficient endplay, but just settles against one of the plates and rubs enough to set up some kind of harmonics. Might put a dab of oil there.
     
  8. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

    Feb 5, 2011
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    Try a very thin film of vaseline on the pallets,trapeze loops,leader loop and crutch loop. Sometimes oil doesn't work where you've got steel on steel. What technique do you use to polish your pallets?
     
  9. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Since it coordinates with the entrance pallet so well, I'd focus my attention there. If it's not the pallet, then it must be the teeth. I'd sure give Tinker's idea a try before trying to alter teeth conditions :)
     
  10. john e

    john e Registered User

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    #10 john e, May 21, 2015
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
    Try clamping an alligator clip to the anchor as close to the entrance pallet as possible. See if it changes the frequency of the squeak. (angle it so it goes over the arbor and balances weight wise)

    Do you have a beat monitor? Clamp it to a long thin dowel, and use the dowel as a touch microphone to identify the source location better. I recall seeing this technique in popular mechanics back in the 60's, but with a stethescope for engine troubleshooting. I used it with a pickaxe 25 years ago to find a buried well top that had a bad foot valve, I could hear the water rushing through the plastic pipe 5 feet down in the dirt.

    You can even put a half to one inch dia funnel shape on the end of the dowel to make it a small directional mike, kinda like a suction tipped toy arrow.

    John
     
  11. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Thanks for the replies and suggestions fellas, appreciated. I've isolated it to the entrance pallet as I suspected and Tinker suggested. Squeak continues when moved by hand, stops when the power is removed or reduced. Tried a bit of blue tack (in place of clay) as you suggested Tinker, didn't change it.

    Jay, It's a new anchor I made, I polish the faces using wet n dry paper starting at 1000grit, working through at 500grit intervals until 7000grit, and then it is finally finished with a felt wheel with a super mirror polishing compound. You can see the pores of your skin in the reflection J

    The tips of the EW were refaced in my Lorch, and as I said, new anchor made and polished. The action of the 'scapement is pretty good, and works well, much less drop than the original. Pendulum has more swing than a opened minded Bohemian couple from the 70s.

    In conclusion this can squeak quietly all it wants. I've decided it's not coming out the case again. :)
    Decided I'm not going to undo any good work for a quiet squeak that'll probably go away.......sometime.
     
  12. ragobo

    ragobo Registered User

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    I have 3 cuckoo clocks that have made the same noise all his life (with or without oiling). I never bothered too much about it though
     
  13. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    It will sometimes go away on its own.
    It is actually caused by to smooth a surface.
    It is an action called stick/slip. You can try different
    lubricants with higher film strength.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  14. Bradford Needham

    Bradford Needham Registered User
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    For those - like me - researching this symptom: for what it's worth, I just finished working on a similar clock, that has a very similar squeak. Searching this forum for "squeak" turns up several very frustrated and very experienced clock repairers dealing with similar cuckoo squeaks. squeaking cuckoo clock suggested polishing the trapeze - the u-shaped wire the pendulum hanger hangs from - and the inside of the loop of the pendulum hanger.

    20190829_203724B.jpg
     
  15. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    I know what it is but exactly what causes it is quite elusive. It's the pallet assembly in a harmonic vibration with itself. Any change in said assembly's mass or fit will usually stop it. I.e. place a small fishing weight about half way up the crutch wire or rebusing one of both of the pallet arbor pivots will usually do it.
    Willie X
     
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  16. Bradford Needham

    Bradford Needham Registered User
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    Yup, that seems to be the cause in this clock. I removed the pendulum hanger and moved the crutch back and forth by hand, and found the squeak is still there. So - in this case at least - it has nothing to do with the pendulum hanger. See the video to see and hear the squeak with and without the pendulum hanger installed.

    I'm going to leave it alone because I'm pretty inexperienced/unskilled at doing metalwork. Bushing is the next thing on my list of things to learn. Thanks for your help at tracking down the problem.
     
  17. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    A split lead fishing weight about half way up the crutch is easy enough to try. All you need is the split lead weight and a pair of pliers. Willie X
     
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  18. Bradford Needham

    Bradford Needham Registered User
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    After your suggestion, I tried clamping a small split fishing weight onto the center of the crutch - no luck. That it squeaks when I push down or up on the crutch end and manually move the crutch back and forth (see end of the video above) suggests to me that it's not a balance thing in this particular case.

    I then removed the anchor and escape wheel, polished the pallets and escape teeth, reinstalled them and oiled them... to no effect. I'm resigned to the squeak, expecting from others' comments that it will either clear up in a year or so, or will squeak for the rest of its life.

    20190912_114800B.jpg
     
  19. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Did you put a drop of oil each pallet? Yes, a real drop, not just a film. If that works, let it run for a couple months and reclean and lube the ew and pallets.

    RC
     
  20. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Never seen one that stopped squeeking. Move the weight you added (up or down) or change to a larger weight. Next rebush the looser of the pallet arbor pivot holes. WIllie X
     
  21. Bradford Needham

    Bradford Needham Registered User
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    Yup, did that. No luck.
     
  22. Bradford Needham

    Bradford Needham Registered User
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    If I get desperate before my friend picks up their clock, I'll trade out the escape wheel for another from a movement I bought for scavenging parts for this movement (that other movement has an anchor with a missing pivot, so for me it's "parts only").

    The longer story about the scavenge movement: It looks like the same movement as this one. I bought it because I thought this movement had a warning wheel and cam wheel (lifting cam) that had broken pivots, and I would replace those wheels with ones from the scavenge movement; it turns out that this design of movement - both of the ones I have - just have short pivots on those two wheels. Odd.
     
  23. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Is this pivot hole for the verge badly worn or does it just look that way in the picture? Is the verge wire brushing the frame at the point shown?

    It takes two parts rubbing to make the squeak, the escape wheel is only one and so far no indication that there is anything wrong with it. In fact it doesn't appear to be anything wrong with anything. If excessive oil on the verge/teeth didn't temporarily quiet it, I would keep looking. are the pivots of the verge polished and the pallets polished mirror bright with no scratches? When polishing the verge pivots don't forget to also polish the end of the arbor at the base of the pivot. It might help to slightly chamfer the verge pivot holes on the inside of the plate.

    Try putting a tooth pick in the escape wheel so it cant move and see if the verge still squeaks when not in contact with the ew. I think you need to determine what is squeaking before just changing out parts. This sort of thing drives me nuts until it is found.

    RC

    squeek.jpg
     

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