Wheel sticking

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Chris., Dec 5, 2018.

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  1. Chris.

    Chris. Registered User

    Jul 20, 2018
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    Dear Sir/Madam, hope someone can help me or advise me on my clock,I have a Westminster chime clock and found every so often it will miss its chime so then goes out of sinth and then resets on the next two hours, the clock has been cleared and oiled but still sticking, there is a fan like wheel one on left side for the 15 minutes and one on right side, the left my in photo sometimes sticks manly when it sits straight up,does anyone got any information on this please thank you.

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  2. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    I'll move this to the clock repair forum.
     
  3. Dick Feldman

    Dick Feldman Registered User

    Sep 1, 2000
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    Your wheel sticking once in a while is likely a series of wheels sticking.
    Your symptoms are characteristic of a worn movement.
    The chime train in most clocks requires the most energy to operate and it is the first to fail from wear/friction/lack of power.
    Cleaning, oiling and adjusting will do little or nothing to remedy wear in clock movements.
    The normal course of action for a worn movement is to replace it with a new one if available or to install bushings at each wear point.
    Best,
    Dick
     
  4. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    You say the fan is "sticking" when straight up, so let's start there. Tha fan blade is held in position by spring tension so make sure it isn't hasn't slipped on the arbor (axle) and that it isn't hitting anything. We need to be a bit more clear just what you mean by "sticking". Do the qtr. chimes start and run sluggishly and "stick" before completing? Or does the fan "stick" just BEFORE the qtr. chimes start? When it "sticks", if you give it a little nudge will it go on and run? Locate the wheel (gear) that drives the fan, very gently try to turn that wheel about 1/2 turn backward. Note it may only turn in one direction and will turn easily, then release it. Does it turn back and abruptly stop at the same place? When it sticks, look at the chime hammers; are any of the hammers partly raised? Does the clock otherwise run OK?

    Yes, a lot of questions but we need to determine whether the fan is actually hitting an obstruction, or whether the chime correction device is locking the time train, or whether it is struggling to get enough power due to excessive friction and wear, or if the hammer drum is out of time causing the chime train to attempt to start under the load of a hammer already trying to lift. It may be "time for a new Timex" or just a simple adjustment

    RC
     
  5. Chris.

    Chris. Registered User

    Jul 20, 2018
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    Hi, the fan sticks just before in is ready to run it,s get ready to strike and doesn't move ready so when the click sounds it doesn't go,it does when I give it a nudge then it will run fine to it goes in the straight up position or around that position,it will run anywhere else, when I take out the movement and look,cannot see it touching any thing, cannot see any worn privets.once running it runs perfectly fine and at a correct speed.just every so often that fan will stick,in that position.
     
  6. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    This sounds like a chime drum lift point is either starting to lift one of the hammers, or up against it at the end of the pre-chime warning run. Generally, the wheels in the chime train need to get up speed before attempting to lift the first hammer in the sequence for that qtr. IF that is the case, retarding the strike drum slightly may solve the problem. Note that if the drum is retarded too much the last hammer in the sequence may not drop.

    If adjusting the chime drum timing doesn't solve the problem, there may in deed be inadequate power from general wear or some other issues.

    RC
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    #7 Willie X, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    Let the power down an push back and forth on the 2nd wheel. I think you will see some arbors jumping around in the chime train. What DF and RC said.

    Could be simpler, like a bent pivot high in the train, or a bent arbor, bent tooth, bad depthing, foreign matter in a pinion or wheel gullet, etc.

    Willie X
     
  8. glenhead

    glenhead Registered User
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    If it sticks with the fan (known as the "fly", Chris) in the same position every time it could also be that the fly blade itself is snagging on something. Take a look and see if you can scoot the fly a bit toward one plate or the other on its arbor to make sure it spins completely freely and away from all the other "stuff" that's in there. The fly blade is usually a friction fit on the arbor, with the arbor sort of woven into slots on the fly. I've seen the blades catch on something if the fly is slightly out of its run-free zone. If that doesn't do it, then go on with more robust troubleshooting.

    Glen
     
  9. 124Spider

    124Spider Registered User

    FWIW....

    I had a similar issue in my 100-year old Herschede grandfather clock in 2012--the strike mechanism started not operating properly, even though I could hear it release; if I pushed the fly with my finger, it would reluctantly initiate the strike, and generally finish. Then get stuck again the next time.

    I took the movement apart, cleaned it, rebushed two pivot holes that were significantly out-of-round, put it back together, to no avail; same problem.

    Then I looked carefully, and found that, for whatever reason, the plates were pinching the arbors on that part of the movement. I installed a tiny shim in one corner, slightly increasing the distance in that quarter of the movement, and the clock has been striking without issue for the 6-1/2 years since then.

    Obviously, I don't know if this is your problem; indeed, it probably isn't. But this is just an illustration that all sorts of things can go wrong, even with high quality clocks.

    Mark
     
  10. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    I also had a similar issue, and after inspection discovered that one of the teeth on the pinion had broken off.
     
  11. Chris.

    Chris. Registered User

    Jul 20, 2018
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    Hi, thank you so much for your help and information,to be honest think you are saying it is the part what lifts the hammer at each sequence on the big wheel at just above the hammers, what I think you are saying is a Drum,just asking what and how to adjust.it.Think I should mark the teeth on each side and see before removing the next big wheel what runs next to it so I can move back one tooth on the drum and replace the big wheel,is that correct,thank you..
     
  12. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    You should be able to loosen this screw after the qtr chime sequence is finished and move the pin drum backward just a tiny bit so that none of the pins are in contact with any of the hammer lifters. Too much and the last note hammer will fail to drop.

    RC

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  13. Chris.

    Chris. Registered User

    Jul 20, 2018
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    Hi,I didn't do that one I did the one at bottom white teeth and moved that one back one tooth.took clip off,to be honest after doing this the clock hasn't stuck yet and at the moment going ok,but know got some information so can play with it and see how it goes.moving the white teeth wheel back is that a similar thing you have told me.can I ask why it is gone out anyway.if it is this.
     
  14. Chris.

    Chris. Registered User

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    IMG_1224.JPG
     
  15. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    At the "white teeth" you only can move by one whole tooth at a time. You won't need to move a whole tooth, just a tiny amount or you will end up with the wrong notes. Loosen the set screw in the drive gear and you can make a fine adjustment. How did it get off in the first place - parts wear. Perhaps something else going on here. It may have been off just a tad when new but then the clock had enough Power to overcome. General wear through out and perhaps a little set to the springs and she doesn't quite have power she once did. And if it was ever taken apart for cleaning, it may have been slightly misadjusted when put back together

    RC
     
  16. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    One thing is odd about this symptom of the fly always stopping at the same position. That is, when a strike train is running normally the fly would always slip on stopping and naturally land in different places, no matter what. The only exceptions would be when the train is stalling or barely turning, or it's soldered to the atbor. This points my thinking back to a, already mentioned several times, power loss. Willie X
     
  17. Chris.

    Chris. Registered User

    Jul 20, 2018
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    Hi,thank you for your help, after doing some adjustment the clock is running much better now the fly is running faster when spinning,the clock is playing all the notes perfectly at the moment,if it still starts striking again or it doesn't work then I will adjust some more,now got something to look at,thanks again for your kind help and information,have learnt a lot from this,regards Chris.
     

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