What tools should I use

[PaddyBoy85]

I just recently became interested in watch repair. I thought I would get some more practice taking watches apart and piecing them back together. To this end I have started collecting some old pocket watches from thrift stores and purchasing some on eBay. What tools would be best for someone who is just starting out and wants to "dissect" some old pocket watches?

 

[Kevin W.]

Have you purchased any books or other educational material to learn with?
As far as tools go if you do a search on the forum you should find lots on the subject.Hope you have deep pockets because good tools are not cheap.A good pair of tweezers can be 30 bucks, a good pair of screwdrivers a 100 bucks.You cant do good watch repair with cheap tools.
What kind of investment in your time in learning and money spent do you wish to spend?
Its a great hobby to get into but not cheap.Not trying to say you should not, but you should be aware of what you are getting into.

 

[Skutt50]

I see this is your second posting so Welcome to the board.......

You will need a case opener just to get the watch open.

Then you need some good screwdrivers which will not slip and cause damage.

To see what you are doing you need some magnifying. There are several types and you need more than one depending on the type of work or size of the parts you are working on.

To hold the small parts you need some tweezers. Many parts are so small that you can not pick them up with your fingers.

Assuming you manage to disassemble the watch without damaging any parts you need to clean it.

To clean the watch parts an ultrasonic washer comes in handy but you can do without this initially.

When you start to assemble the watch you need oilers and watch oil of 2-3 different types.

This is what you need for a simple fixing of a standard watch, however you will not stop here.

There are "thousands" of tools costing several thousands of dollars before you will be satisfied and even then, you will have an urge to upgrade your tools and spend even more money... It seems to never end!

I do not wish to discourage you but be prepared for a very exiting hobby which will take a big chunk of your time, and your money, to be satisfied.

 

[davidd20042001]

Try not to get discouraged.. Yes it will cost some money, yes it will take some time.. Yes it will take determination.. but it is worth it .. I'm fairly new at this also.. watchmaking that is.. but let me tell you it has but a whole new dimension / outlook to my watch collecting, it has opened up a whole other world to collecting! First join the NAWCC, get as many books as you can and READ! ask questions to the fine folks here..Go to NAWCC marts / meetings and you will be able to get some great buys on tools, materials.. etc.. most of ENJOY! the world needs watch repairers!

 

[R.G.B.]

Skutt gave you the basics and I would add a hand remover and a dremel or rotary tool of any brand. I've never owned a pair of thirty dollar tweezers but I can dress my $10.00 brand with 600 grit and some polishing compound into just what I need for the job. I also use a butane torch to alter the shape into whatever I need to suit the job. It's also there for hardening and tempering which makes a big difference in usability. For screwdrivers get a decent holder and blades can be made with large diameter sewing needles or drill rod. Again I use a rotary tool to hollow grind and polish the tips and they work great.

I'd say imagination and being able to customize your methods is as important as everyday practice. I can take my cheap tweezers and hold the screw above the bridge while letting off just enough pressure for the screw to swing thread end down and drop it home.

For reading material the open library has several public domain books on watchmaking and although they're from the early 1900's the techniques are still used today.

Some you might find useful: (add pdf to your searches)

A practical course in adjusting
Waltham watchmakers handbook
Watch adjusters manual
Lessons in horology
A practical course in Horology

Most of the tools I use are vintage for two reasons. 1: If they were good enough for a watchmaker they'll certainly be good enough for me. and 2: She who must be obeyed likes antiques so I can leave them lying around and she gets to play with them. (genius, I know)

 

[Dr. Jon]

Not really tools but you should get finger cots. These are condoms that fit on your finger tips. They are disposable and keep fingerprints off watches and let you hold a lot of things with your fingers.

Tweezers are great and essential but it takes a lot of practice to hold small parts and handle large parts. If you squeeze too hard the tweezer can launch a small part into oblivion. If you don't apply enough pressure a part can drop into oblivion.

Handling larger parts and even smaller parts with cot encased finger tips is less likely to lose parts.

Set aside an area to work and keep it clean. One other tool is a strong magnet to help find parts. My magnet has retreived many tiny parts from "the dark side".

 

[flynwill]

Some other "tools" that are incredibly useful:

Pegwood. these are straight grained ~1/8" diameter wooden sticks that can be whittled to all sorts of useful non-marring tools. Some folks use bamboo skewers to the same effect.

Pithwood. these are small rounds of very soft absorbent wood, much like balsa. Useful for cleaning tweezers and screwdrivers, also used like a pincushion for your oilers.

Rodico. This slightly sticky putty can be use for cleaning and also like tweezers for picking up the smallest parts.

 

[Neuron]

This post made me think a bit about the subject of "necessary" watch repair tools in a new way...

So I'm thinking about it like this, splitting it into two broad categories based on what you want to be able to do: 1) merely disassemble and reassemble a watch to CLA and "fix" things (e.g. swap out available watch parts without making your own replacement parts or doing machine work on the watch itself); or 2) do "real" watchmaker stuff, (like cutting and installing new gears, balance staffs, etc.) that requires more technical ability and special tools.

For level 1 work, you can get by with the following essentials:

--good quality screwdrivers, tweezers, a case opening knife, and a whole bunch of other small hand held tools that will allow you to do level 1 watch work. This includes optical magnification tools that allow you to manipulate small parts.

For level 2 work, you'll need specialized tools that allow you to do things that a machinist does (like lathe and mill work), but on a much smaller scale.

Nick

 

[darrahg]

Nick, don't forget to include cleaning supplies for your item one. These should not be too expensive but you might want to consider what cleaning solution to use and then find a source. You will need a few containers too. Remember that the hairspring and balance need to be cleaned separately and a special chemical (One Dip or something similar) might be best. DA

 

[RJSoftware]

Lighter fluid. (aka naptha).

It is the best...!

Let's face it, not every watch is worth disassembly. But the gears might be gunked up from old lube.

Then comes the ol lighter fluid trick.

Just get you a small glass jar with metal lid. I use a small minced garlic jar. It's a little wider than an 18s movement. Buy some Zippo lighter fluid. They still sell it at Publix where I live.

Take the watch somewhat apart. Meaning, remove the stem and pull the dial off. (that part is an art in itself). Practice on old windup Timex's.

Swirl the movement in about 3 teaspoons full of the lighter fluid. Just for a little while. Or you can leave it set. Your decision.

Remove the watch movement and tap lightly to shake off excess. Set on clean surface. You might like a rubber glove or hold with tweezers.

You can use a hair dryer like I do to speed things up. But be careful as heat can alter palette jewels that are specifically set. Also could be a fire hazzard. Use at your own discretion. You could just let it dry normally without heat from hair dryer.

When I first use the hair dryer I watch the lighter fluid for how fast it disappears. I have the watch movement on the table.

This is important because the lighter fluid use does not last forever. You have to replace with fresh fluid about every few watches.

If the fluid evaporates very quick then it's good. Else if it drops run for a while then the fluid has too much oil in it. It sucks up the oil from the movements. Residual oil leaves a film.

What you will notice though is allot of watches can be instantly restored. The lighter fluid cleans everything up shiney and super clean.

But it will not do in every circumstance. Some residues are resistant and then full disassembly and cleaning is required.

Understand also that this is not a professional cleaning. You will need to learn how to do that efficiently. But the truth is some watches are just not worth that much bother.

Also the lighter fluid sucks out all the lubrication which means you will need to relubricate.

See you might think (as others) that this is a counter productive thing I am telling you. But no, you should understand all your options as you evolve into watch repair. As you get better you will lean more into genuine repairs that require full basic cleaning service. (disassemble, clean, peg, lube).


In the old days they use to use chemicals like benzine (from what I read in Fried books) but thankfully we have lighter fluid still.

The next thing I can tell you, I would have liked to have known from the beginning.

Get a one eye loupe with headband and some lens better than 10x.

Get a magnivisor also. Use the magnivisor for low level magnification. Flea markets sell them now even with lights.

It is important to get the loupe with better than 10x magnification. You will see, you'll notice that somehow your getting angry/frustrated at a watch and you can't really figure out why.

Well, least I did. But then I tried a 12x then moved up to 20x and the world changed for me.

10x and lower gave me the impression that I could do it. And there are things you can do with 10x or less. But there are other things that you really need more mag for.

10x and less is like snorkeling and looking at the pretty fish way below. You gotta sense of what's going on, but your not really there.

Above 10x (for me) was like going down with a scuba tank. A 20x reveals soo much more detail.

You see things like that microscopic fiber hair thats wrapped arround your escape wheel. Or that bend on the end of a pivot.

You actually see the pivot tips protrude from the jewel holes.

But here's the bug in that ointment...

You have to switch back and forth from the eye loupe to the magnivisor. Which means temporary blindness and possible droppage.

Then comes the binocular eyeloupe. Well, you got a few thousand to spend. Not me.

So I got a method to switch between them. I put the eye loupe on my cheek and then the magnivisor on. Or take the magnivisor off and then hang on chair and use the loupe.

Sometimes (or I should say many times) I forget to take the magnivisor off and it cast a shadow when using the loupe. Frustration frustration...

I now have a repair box. See my past post. It definitley helps me from not losing parts. Trust me, just make the box you won't regret it.

Other things I can say you honestly need.

A good quality arkansas stone. Translucent or white is best. You'll need this because you will be constantly sharpening your screw drivers or you will junk up the screws.

Don't be affraid to customize your screw drivers. There are very very small screws out there. Dial screws are sometimes the worse, but also stem set screws.

The most important tool I'd say beside magnification is the staking tool set. It's a must have. Try to get one with a micro brake. So you can control how far you stake something down. You dont' absolutley have to have it, but it sure looks nice. I don't have one.

Eventually you'll migrate into getting a lathe. Only buy WW (Whitcomb and Whiteker ) compliant. 8mm watchmaker lathe.

This is a standard that allows collets and other useful tools to adapt across manufacture's. Otherwise you'll spend an eternity hunting for acceptable parts so to use your lathe.

RJ

 

[ben_hutcherson]

Lighter fluid. (aka naptha).

In the old days they use to use chemicals like benzine (from what I read in Fried books) but thankfully we have lighter fluid still.

Benzine and lighter fluid are basically the same thing-just a mixture of low molecular weight hydrocarbons(primarily hexanes and pentanes).

It's also known as petroleum ether, white gas, and naptha in various contexts.

 

[Neuron]

Nick, don't forget to include cleaning supplies for your item one. These should not be too expensive but you might want to consider what cleaning solution to use and then find a source. You will need a few containers too. Remember that the hairspring and balance need to be cleaned separately and a special chemical (One Dip or something similar) might be best. DA

Right! "CLA" is what we do most of the time, and the first letter, "C," stands for "clean!" The hand tools are essential to the dissasembly and reassembly parts of the the task, though as another poster suggested it may be possible to clean without disassembly, though I don't advocate that approach.
-> posts merged by system <-

Lighter fluid. (aka naptha).

It is the best...!
Let's face it, not every watch is worth disassembly. But the gears might be gunked up from old lube.
Then comes the ol lighter fluid trick.
RJ

Good points about optical aids! Essential when working with tiny parts.

Re naptha (AKA lighter fluid or Coleman stove "gas"), it is a good cleaning solvent and may even provide some lubricity because it can liquify some dried up oils in the mechanism. At best it can get a stuck mechanism moving again for a brief time, but nothing beats a real CLA with careful disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication/reassembly.

That being said I have used the "lighter fluid trick" with good (albeit brief) results on watches and camera lens shutter mechanisms.

 

[Kevin W.]

If you do use Coleman or lighter fluid i do suggest you use it out doors.It is quite flamable.
It has been discussed before that lighter fluid should not be used on a jewelled movement, but ok for a Westclox dollar watch.
I believe this was a question asked in the past.

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey Kevin, curious why not use naptha on a jeweled movement?
I have had no problem with it.
RJ

 

[Neuron]

Hey Kevin, curious why not use naptha on a jeweled movement?
I have had no problem with it.
RJ

Nor have I (the very few times I've used it), but maybe the stuff can loosen some types of "shellac" used to hold roller and pallet jewels in place. For that reason, if you use naphtha, you might want to remove the balance and fork first. Another reason is that the naphtha would likely dissolve oils and bring grit into the pivot bearing jewels elsewhere in the watch, where the grit would be contained. Still an issue with non-jeweled pivots, but less so since their pivots are more open and grit can be flushed out more thoroughly.

Nick

 

[R.G.B.]

I have no doubt there are better things but I've never had a problem with it with pallet/roller jewels. I haven't used it for anything but forks and balances since I started using ammonia and oxalic acid for a soaking mix. I think it was Doug who mentioned that, Thanks Doug. Lighter fluid is flammable?

 

[RJSoftware]

I know alcohol will disolve shellac. But naptha does not at all.

Heat from hair dryer can melt the shellac, but I give the hair dryer some distance to evaporate the majority of naptha. Then hold the movement in hand so to feel how hot it is getting.

If I can hold it by hand and it does not hurt, then I know it's not getting hot enough to mess up the shellac.

But, then again, I could always be more patient and let it air dry. One would think maybe I was risking a fire hazzard, but the lighter fluid evaporates quick and I think the hair dryer thins out the mixture greatly with the air flow.

Does anyone remember making those lighter fluid guns? Tape a bunch of coke cans with ends cut off together then poor lighter fluid in, put a ball or potatoe in one end, shake and lite the other end...

BOOM...!

RJ

RJ

 

[Kevin W.]

RJ i believe this was answered before as you had stated using naptha.I think Ben answered it, its in a old thread.Ok for non jeweled movements.

 

[AbslomRob]

While there's no doubt that good quality tweezers and screwdrivers are easier to use and less likely to damage the watches you're working on, you can start "tinkering" with dollar store "precision" sets and model tweezers. The trick is to also buy an oilstone (from home depot or the like) and learn how to put a good edge on them. This is an invaluable skill, and you're better off learning it on cheaper drivers/tweezers rather then expensive ones.

 

[Kevin W.]

This is a old thread.Steve Maddox had this to say about naptha for cleaning.He is a very wise person and wish he still posts here.

https://mb.nawcc.org/archive/index.php/t-3995.html