What time is it...?

Discussion in 'Horological Misc' started by RJSoftware, Jul 28, 2016.

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  1. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    These are indeed the strangest days I have ever experienced.

    I wonder about the heat. Somehow it does not seem the same. Maybe it is old age creeping up on me but the sunshine seems a peculiar kind of hot.

    Almost needle-ish like. Little microscopic tiny stings I swear I can almost sense on my skin. Now I admit that I don't have air conditioning in my car and after I get good breeze going it's tolerable.

    I have considered different causes such as constant exposure to air conditioning. But there is something missing. I mean where I don't see kids around playing much in the yards. Anywhere.

    Of course logic dictates that it's too dang hot so why would they want to play in the yard. But on the afternoons that really get hot the road is silent too. From my perspective, where I live that is very peculiar.

    Now here is where we get a bit spooky.

    I have a quartz watch and somehow after being the ever reliable is keeping poor time.

    You would think, so what, try changing the battery. True.

    What had happened is my good old faithful Timex Indiglo railroad style watch was what I would adjust my mechanical clocks to. I've been wearing it for years. Love to press the button at night when I need to know.

    But on this day my Timex Indiglo quartz watch had sped up.

    In fact it has been gaining 5 minutes or more a day. Still doing it. Probably all I have to do is change the battery. But it got me to thinking.

    At first I was cussing out my mechanicals thinking what the heck is wrong now, but I began to realize that they all had the same time. (I have spent a long trying to regulate them to perfection), I just thought well, dang I guess my Timex is on the fritz.

    Then I was thinking about the hole in Earth's magnetosphere. I was thinking about that on my way to Taco Bell, when I realized my arm began to burn from a short moment in the sunshine through the car window. Just another odd unusual sting to it.

    You see, the Timex sped up. I wonder if it is possible that the time keeping of quartz mechanism would be effected by alterations in the magnetosphere.

    I wonder if the effect would be more global or spot here and there. A blast from the sun may string off like ribbons effecting only certain areas.

    So, I suppose if it where true everyone would be saying something about it. I know, probably just my goofed up imagination.

    But, I can't think of anything that would speed up a quartz 5+ minutes a day. If it is something as simple as a weak battery then I wonder how it fails and becomes faster?

    I understand basic principles. A canister has something resembling a quartz tuning fork and through it's counting circuitry send a pulse to the motor advancing at intervals.

    Nothing at all like friction speeding up a balance wheel. In a mechanical increased friction would make the balance wheel spin with less amplitude and that would increase the speed of the escapement.

    But why would a quartz speed up? I see a coil, thinking maybe it might be possible that the coil is picking up some kind of frequency increase effecting the Earth...?

    Do da do da do da dooo da doooo (Twilight zone music -lol).

    Well, enough of the babble. Just a curiosity.

    Any and all opinions appreciated. (gulp...).

    RJ
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I've moved this stream of unconsciousness to Horological Misc.
     
  3. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    #3 RJSoftware, Jul 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
    Ah well it was just for theoretical fun...

    But as you labeled it Steven Thornberry.
    "stream of unconsciousness"

    Hmmm, maybe I am not so welcome here.

    RJ
     
  4. Rob P.

    Rob P. Registered User

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    If being a bit weird means you're not welcome here, then most of us need our keyboards taken away.

    I think the heat is the culprit. Try freezing the watch and see what happens. I don't mean tossing it into the freezer, I mean try moving to someplace cold right now. Antartica sounds like a place you could check out. It even has a hole in the ozone too so you wouldn't have to worry about more than one variable at a time being changed.
     
  5. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    Thanks Rob P. I was hoping it would start a conversation on possibilities of quartz being less effective than mechanical in some distant future effected by solar winds/radiation. Something along those lines.

    Me, I love the cold, but I live in Florida. We do lust for what we don't have.

    About the comment it was just reaction to a probable and usual barbed reply. Some just hate to play so much.

    Ah well...

     
  6. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    I suppose that heat expands the metal parts in a quartz watch like it does in some mechanical pendulum clocks that are not temperature compensated. The different relationship between expanded metal and normal sized plastic parts might have some bizarre effects. But I have heard stories of "smart bombs" that could take out all electronic functions. I'm not sure what that would entail, but maybe something like your "musings" suggest :)
     
  7. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    #7 RJSoftware, Jul 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
    Hey shutterbug. Good to see your reply.

    I wasn't thinking weaponry but hey the swimming pool is big enough. The one weapon they keep talking about is that "weapon of indignation" that Putin probably has. An EMP (electro magnetic pulse) is suppose to disable the entire grid ect.

    I could imagine that and various employment of same principle. For example if they hijacked the cell phone tower system and piped out some mind control frequency.

    Now you might think that's impossible. But they can aim microwave beams at your skull and make you hear messages. Not some big scientific discovery because all they are doing is altering inner ear canal pressure with microwave carrier signal. I don't know what happened to it but they where considering making military communication use of it.

    Another more interesting one is the recent ability to mind read with MRI scans on brain blood flow. They actually reconstructed images as seen from a monkey's eyes in real time. I suppose then it is not too far off into the future that one could map out human thoughts. Perhaps a mind reading machine.

    Speaking of monkey brains they did finally do a brain transplant with 2 monkeys. It only survived for a short while but it had all the functioning actions like looking around, moving head and body parts, mouth etc. That and years ago the cryogenic dog and the clone sheep makes one wonder just how far advance the military has become. These where things people swore would never be. Yet here they are.

    But for the freakshow paradise genetics has everything beat. Well they have the map of the whole human and are exploring. I love Sci-fi but this is Sci-real. It gets deep like Transhumanism and things like Spider-goats. I could go on forever on that one I think. Maybe we all could :)

    For this thread I say it's open season. I like discussing all sorts of science fiction/realities/questionable realities/fear porn..(lol)/any subject of great curiosity. Let the winds fill the sails.

    As to the quartz question, I wonder if some "thing" was to happen and suddenly every quartz clock in the whole world picked up speed due to some "thing" who would know but us mechanical clock/watch owners. Hmmmm.....?

    RJ

     
  8. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    There's been a great deal of EMP research by both defense and power system engineers. My own field is electric power engineering, with an emphasis on lightning protection. And while it is true that thermonuclear weapons--that is, H-bombs--produce a prodigious radio wave, it turns out that conventional lightning protection methods do a fine job of protecting both electronics and electric power systems against just such an electromagnetic pulse. In fact, far greater minds than mine have determined that a nearby stroke of Mother Nature's own lightning produces an electromagnetic pulse comparable in waveshape and amplitude to that which you'd get from a nuclear weapon.

    This proved to be an immense disappointment to the people in my high-voltage laboratory, for the US Air Force had heretofore been generous with EMP research grants. In an attempt to keep the ball rolling, however, some pseudoscientists have continued to promote the idea of EMP weapons and their effectiveness.

    M Kinsler
     
  9. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    Interesting. So is it true Putin has the "weapon of indignation" (the EMP nuke )?

    Since where on the subject of military and electronics, what do you make of HAARP?

    We have seen photos of the Alaskan setup. So it is real. Just not sure what it does for real.

    Some of that gets as silly as the Hadron collider stories of opening next dimension...But the HAARP stores seem more possible.
     
  10. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    I imagine that Russia is no more impressed by the possibility of an electromagnetic pulse weapon than we are. It was interesting for a while.

    As for HAARP, I believe that it was a project to learn about the radio characteristics of the various high-altitude layers of the atmosphere. When the unfiltered rays of the sun reach our atmosphere, the air up there gets fried to the extent that it becomes ionized--that is, it glows and becomes electrically-conductive. As such it tends to reflect certain frequencies of radio waves that reach it from the earth's surface. Radio engineers have long used this reflective property to send radio waves over the horizon.

    It's never been clear to me why either of these technologies have attracted pseudoscience people. But they're right up there with Tesla coils, free energy, and anti-gravity, I'm afraid.

    M Kinsler
     
  11. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Your canister has a quartz crystal in it, not a tuning fork. It has piezoelectric properties. Basically, if you a squeeze or stress the crystal it will generate electricity. If you apply a voltage to it, it will resonate at some frequency mostly determined by it's size and shape.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator

    Ralph
     
  12. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    #12 RJSoftware, Aug 5, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    Me, I just like to entertain thoughts and enjoy the debate. I don't really go squirly enough for the full commitment but probably border on it socially. Lol...! Ah well, there was an old saying with the letter f if they can't take a joke.

    A while back in the flea market a guy sells some survival equipment from an estate sale. This guy had a helmet that looked like it was designed to resist a bullet impact to the face. It had a 2 inch thick acrylic wrap around lens on a heavy fiber metal helmet. Thing was it weighed a ton. But it was ironic because the owner of the helmet died anyway. His canned food selection was nice. I laugh a bit because I bet the kids where happy to get rid of the junk. Survive "this" Dad... Ahk, such a cruel world.

    But things do bounce around in my head. When you had previously mentioned the skip (radio wave bounce) I was reminded of the flat earth theory and the supposed dome.

    I like the flat earth one because it's bold in your face obviously WRONG, but they do a good job arguing, but it's WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG, (I have to convince myself sometimes).

    Other ones out there like the free energy are actually correct but impractical as what one could get free is often very low level or too limited in use. Example generator from flowing stream. One could charge batteries and make do but probably would not make many trips to the grocery store. On the other hand there are wood gas and hydrogen generators that do produce output but nobody is interested.

    Then there are the moon landing conspiracies. I admit that one had me for a while till I read about the laser mirrors (interesting) installed on some key locations. But it is still possible that one of the flights was reproduced on stage as the flag waves in the air. Or not... lol.

    RJ

     
  13. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    Hey Ralph. From what I read (I think) the quartz crystal is made in the shape of a tiny tuning fork.
    RJ

     
  14. harold bain

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  15. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
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    That was a really creative clip, Harold.
     
  16. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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  18. novicetimekeeper

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  19. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
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    The T6 and T8 packages are popular for watch construction. But, the overwhelming majority of crystal oscillators are of the rectangular or circular disc variety.
     
  20. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    Presumably much easier to make, but I was pointing out that RJ was correct about the use of tuning fork shaped crystals.
     
  21. Bill Ward

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    Yes; this effect is sometimes known as the Curie effect- it was discovered by Pierre Curie, Marie's husband. It states that when a voltage is applied to a crystal in a certain direction, the crystal expands. And when a force is applied, a voltage is generated. This is analogous to the way electromagnetic waves propagate, and the Curie effect produces a sound wave in the crystal. This compressive wave reflects from the edges of the crystal, and causes a resonance like that in a flute. The crystal with its electrodes is included as part of an electronic oscillator, and the crystal's resonate frequency determines the circuit's frequency. The resonate frequency (or frequencies- there might be several modes of vibration) is determined by the dimensions of the crystal, but also by its stiffness, or Young's modulus. Both of these are affected by temperature (as the watch guys know only too well!) The total effect might vary with temperature in a rather complicated way.


    Thanks for the link, Harold; I liked the music, even if the science was hogwash.

    RJ: did you ever change the battery?
     
  22. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    The problem with watch crystals is that 32,768 cycles per second is an exceedingly low frequency for a quartz crystal oscillator, which normally like to work in the millions of cycles per second. Hence they've made these weird tuning-fork crystal shapes. Otherwise, you'd need a crystal that's really thin and floppy and thus prone to breakage. Indeed, most quartz crystals are tiny square things.

    I'm also not sure that the quartz crystals in clocks are actually quartz: I think they may be another piezo-electric compound known as barium titanate.

    They sure make an amazing clock, in any event.

    M Kinsler
     
  23. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    No, they are made of quartz.
    You are right about the shape. It is just to get it to
    resonate at a low frequency.
    Even the high frequency crystals are mechanically
    vibrating.
    It is unlikely that the frequency of the crystal is changing by
    5 minutes a day.
    It is more likely that the chip that divides the 32768 Hz to
    1 Hz is at fault or even that the stepper motor is over shooting
    and making two steps.
    It could even be battery issue but I'm not sure how it would
    do that.
    ( Sink hole are caused by water. Most in cities are caused by
    broken pipes. The rest are caused by changes in levels of the water
    tables and changes in acidity of rain water. ( remember the increase
    in CO2 ))
    Tinker Dwight
     
  24. PWfanatik

    PWfanatik Registered User
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    Hey RJ...
    Study up on sunspot activity, effects of solar rays, (which are more than just rays of light...)
    There may have been a sun spot event on the day you are referring to.
    Dave.
     
  25. novicetimekeeper

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    Isn't sunspot activity supposed to reduce the cosmic ray activity?
     
  26. PWfanatik

    PWfanatik Registered User
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    Novice,
    I am not sure I was just dropping a pebble in the pond of thought for RJ...
    The only thing I am sure of in this life is the difference between me and Genius :p
     
  27. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I read it somewhere. I have 25 years of background radiation check records at work, I need somebody keen on handling data sets to compare that with sunspot activity.
     
  28. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    Hey Bill. Sorry I did not reply sooner. I have tried a couple of batteries, now it is stopping on occasion. Might be something like a small particle or in need of cleaning. I did the lighter fluid bath trick with mild hair dryer finish and it worked well for a few hours then quit again. Seems now more like a poor power connection. Sometimes it hesitates to start a second or so when crown fully in. But it still stops. I have other Timex indiglow movements with day and date so I might just swap them out easy. I have too much work to fiddle with it but have had it for years and it's been the "good ol watch". Thing about the Timex indiglo is, when you wake up at night and wonder what dang time it is, all you got to do is hit the button. Don't have to get up out of bed and turn on the light and focus. Etc... it means allot to me hey.

    RJ

     
  29. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    #29 RJSoftware, Sep 27, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2016
    Well, my Timex is working great again. Just a different battery. I got a bunch of batteries cheap at the flea market, so probably went through a few bad ones.
     
  30. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    Did Thomas Tompion debate Jacques Breuget?

    M Kinsler
     
  31. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    I know, keeping it horologic. :)
     

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