What is best way to mark a hairspring?

[RJSoftware]

Hello all.

Every now and then I run into the problem of trying to mark a hairspring. One of the biggest problems for me in vibrating or adjusting beat is simply to mark a spot.

What I have been doing is trying to make a small bend. Sometimes this loans itself to breaking the hairspring or simply losing the spot from reforming it.

I have tried/read (I think I recall) scratching a "bright" spot on side but seems like it never works for me. Thinking about it now I wonder if I should have tried a sharp carbide tip. But I don't want to chance breaking them.

What do you do to mark the hairspring?
What is the best method you have found?

RJ

 

[karlmansson]

When vibrating a new spring I think it's standard practice to cut the spring a full turn away from the vibrating point. That way the end of the spring will mark the location.

i don't think scratching a hairspring is advisable. You may weaken it or damage the corrosion resistance.

best
Karl

 

[RJSoftware]

That's a good one. I have read the vibrating more than once but overlooked using the end as in-line with the vibration spot. Funny how small details are overlooked.

Another typical situation though is when removing spring and trying to maintain staking point. Reforming and/or turning collet for beat correction.

Not sure if a small scratch would really do that much damage. Just saying...

RJ

When vibrating a new spring I think it's standard practice to cut the spring a full turn away from the vibrating point. That way the end of the spring will mark the location.

i don't think scratching a hairspring is advisable. You may weaken it or damage the corrosion resistance.

best
Karl

 

[karlmansson]

Not sure what you mean by "staking point" but if you are just trying to correct for beat error marking the spring itself won't be necessary. It's about the relation between spring and balance.

The only time you would be interested in marking the spring would be if you removed the collet or stud, and then usually you have markings in the form of bends and kinks from the old taper pins in those circumstances. Turning the collet in relation to the spring (altering the pinning point) is something you would not normally have to do unless a section of spring has broken off. I'd suggest you look up an article from a guy in a WOSTEP school, it's a series of articles called "A Day in Watch School". One of them deals with vibrating and spring adjusting.

As with everything you do this at your own risk. If you were looking for people to agree with you the question might have been misplaced. I can only tell you what I would do and I would try my utmost not to leave any permanent marks in a watch, intentional or unintentional. If I felt the need to mark a spring in the way you describe I would probably go with a brightly colored marker with a fine tip.

Best
Karl

 

[RJSoftware]

Well, I don't get how you think that I am only looking for people to agree with me. Seemed like a straight forward question to ask.

As to staking point pinning point same thing to me. Stake it with a pin. Or is it pin it with a stake?

As to beat error, yes I realize that it's the collet's job to be rotated but sometimes two birds accomplished with one stone (shortening or lengthening pinning location can correct beat and speed same time -getting that EXACT location).

I guess your answer is you have NO need to mark the hairspring. No problem.

I liked the cut the excess portion parallel with vibration point. I'm always learning and re-learning.

RJ

Not sure what you mean by "staking point" but if you are just trying to correct for beat error marking the spring itself won't be necessary. It's about the relation between spring and balance.

The only time you would be interested in marking the spring would be if you removed the collet or stud, and then usually you have markings in the form of bends and kinks from the old taper pins in those circumstances. Turning the collet in relation to the spring (altering the pinning point) is something you would not normally have to do unless a section of spring has broken off. I'd suggest you look up an article from a guy in a WOSTEP school, it's a series of articles called "A Day in Watch School". One of them deals with vibrating and spring adjusting.

As with everything you do this at your own risk. If you were looking for people to agree with you the question might have been misplaced. I can only tell you what I would do and I would try my utmost not to leave any permanent marks in a watch, intentional or unintentional. If I felt the need to mark a spring in the way you describe I would probably go with a brightly colored marker with a fine tip.

Best
Karl

 

[karlmansson]

I kind of got that idea from how you interpreted my discouragement from scratch marking with "Not sure if a small scratch would really do that much damage. Just saying...".

So long as it's not a free sprung balance, altering the pinning point is a REALLY roundabout way of correcting rate and beat error. The pinning point is also essential for maintaining anything resembling isochronism in a flat balance spring. So messing with it should not be done without fully understanding what you are attemting to accomplish. George Daniels "Watchmaking" has a chapter dedicated to the pinning point of flat hairsprings, check it out!
For setting beat you either rotate the collet or use the moveable stud holder in newer watches. For adjusting rate you use the regulator and/or timing washers/mean time screws.

Best of luck!

Karl

 

[RJSoftware]

Well, thanks for taking time to reply.

Your right it does not make much sense to mark the hairspring with a scratch or really any other method other than maybe a small correctable bend at the "pinning point". So the quick of it is "don't do it"...!

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I don't understand, not sure your reading or just skipping over my replies as some (not all) of your advise is redundant, but I don't mind and understand.

Please don't get offended. Me, I get tired so I have limited energy to question/reply in perfect form.

The question was "What is the best way to mark a hairspring", not how to wind a watch?

Btw, do you ever notice some people wind the watch by twisting the crown back and forth?

Different strokes for different folks hey.

RJ

 

[karlmansson]

If some of my replies seem redundant it's because I realize that I'm not only answering you but anyone who might read this and wonder why someone would want to mark a hairspring. I did also not understand why you would want to do that, hence my foray into points of attachment and timing. I'm not offended, it's all good.

To answer a question you sometimes need to know the circumstances. As I've already stated I don't believe that scratching a hairspring is a good idea. I would have asked the question "Why?" if the original question was "What glue is the best for fixing balance screws?" as well.

But yeah, as I said, marker...

Best
Karl

 

[EJoseph]

I have never needed to mark a hairspring? Of course when vibrating a new one that's quite another matter but then, as a previous poster said, cutting it one coil out marks the future stud pinning point very nicely. If removing the hairspring to poise the balance or re-staff I usually mark the balance itself with a marker which can easily be cleaned off afterward, and shows me exactly where the roller jewel and hairspring stud are positioned, so I can put them back properly (and then adjust beat as necessary.)

In some watches, like the Rolex 2130, and some fusee pocket watches, it's necessary to un-clip or un-pin the hairspring to make adjustments/remove the balance. In those cases it's pretty easy to eyeball it or conform to the existing kink in the spring, no real need to add more bends or otherwise mark the spring. In general, it's a bad practice to leave any evidence inside the watch that you were ever there.