What ever happened to 3D-printed clock parts?

[kinsler33]

This post was meant to be a reply to TH Tanner (I think) who sought a miserable plastic ratchet-gear-coupling-thing for a romantic cuckoo clock. But I think it's worth its own thread, because I suspect that others may have been as disappointed as I was.

3D printing would have been able to produce those parts almost instantly if everything had gone as predicted, which apparently they did not. My guess is that nobody was able to find a 3D printing material strong, stiff, and stable enough for a machine part, and I haven't seen anything at all about improvements in the precision and resolution of the printers themselves. So the 3-D printed products I've seen have been confined to things like mixing bowls and action figures.

Though I have a rather elderly NAWCC journal that describes the restoration of an electric clock by means of a 3D-printed plastic gear, it was quite a project and by this time I'd have expected to see Timesavers and them offer a 3D printing service for otherwise-impossible parts. But there's nothing, and the only parts I can think of that would work with the softish plastics currently in use would be replicas of wood clock wheels or case parts.

If anyone knows any more about this miraculous process than I do, I'd appreciate any comments.

M Kinsler

 

[R. Croswell]

I think you are just expecting too much too soon from a very new technology that is just beginning to mature. Investors expect a return on their investment so 3D printed parts for cheap clocks that are not really expected to ever be repaired will likely be a long time coming and may never come.

RC

 

[novicetimekeeper]

They are already printing watch parts aren't they? I guess watches have higher volumes and smaller parts, so makes sense to start there.

 

[shutterbug]

I think we would have to see what the longevity would be for any printed part. I'm skeptical about them holding up. I also wonder what the printing material is made from. It would have to be some kind of "glue" wouldn't it? Or do the printers use heated plastics of some sort?

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I think we would have to see what the longevity would be for any printed part. I'm skeptical about them holding up. I also wonder what the printing material is made from. It would have to be some kind of "glue" wouldn't it? Or do the printers use heated plastics of some sort?

The watches use metal.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Micro laser sintering technology to 3D print tiny metal parts

 

[shutterbug]

Interesting read, Novice. Looks like it's from 2014. I would think the technology is improved now, but I haven't seen much advertising for either the printers or for printing as a service. Just a matter of time, I think.

 

[kinsler33]

Thank you. That is a nifty article, but it's five years old now.

What is needed is a general job shop: send us your files and maybe a picture of what you need, choose a material from which to 3D print it, and we'll send you your new part within three days. This is exactly what makers of printed circuit boards and the people who make metal molds for plastics with CNC techniques do; I've seen the advertisements.

The general job shop doesn't care what that gear with the funny pointed teeth is used for as long as you're happy with the results and you remit payment promptly. The technique that was going to change the world made parts of a powdered metal bound with plastic on a 3D printer. These are then popped into the furnace and heated to a temperature just below the melting point of the metal. The plastic burns away and the grains of powdered metal (usually microscopic spheres) weld together ("sinter") and the result is a solid metal structure as strong as one you'd have filed out of a steel block.

It'd be great, and we were supposed to have seen it by now.

Mark Kinsler

phooey

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I was looking for something referring to watches, but they keep their cards close to their chests. I know they print some components by vapour deposition.

 

[bangster]

See Hints & How-To's

 

[kinsler33]

See Hints & How-To's

Well, cough, cough, hack, kaff.... The evidence clearly reveals that I'd read through that whole thread. In point of fact, I contributed three posts to it. And I don't recall it, which tells us all we need to know about being 72.

I would point out, however, that we never found out how things went with the one 3D printing shop that was mentioned--price, materials, resolution and the rest. I really think a 3D print shop would be lots handier than ownership of a 3D printer, for the shop would have a variety of printers and materials, and a staff to advise you.

It doesn't seem like anyone is actually using the technology for anything, certainly not for clocks, and that's what I was wondering about. I did like those plastic verges in the illustration.

Mark Kinsler

 

[Jim DuBois]

There are a lot of printed metal parts being used in all sorts of places these days. A few examples can be seen at 3d printing metal parts - Bing images There is some fair number of companies that will print one-off parts, or even short production runs these days. They can be found using the normal search engines. I can't speak to any of them.

I do have one associate who is metal printing parts, I have seen his work, and it is extremely finely done. Gun parts. But he has more work than he can do so that is the end of that for me.

The metal printed work is not cheap but prices are coming down.

 

[kinsler33]

Those parts at Bing are splendid, and look like they'd easily be suitable for high-class clock work. Between old motorcycles, old cars and trucks, old firearms, and our clocks it would seem that a shop could indeed have plenty of business. That helical bevel gear looks serious.

The next time I need a difficult clock part I will check with one or another 3D printing firms and report what happens.

Mark Kinsler

 

[bangster]

I thought 3Dprinters just used plastic. Do they use metal??

 

[gmorse]

Hi bangster,

Do they use metal??

Just search online for 'additive manufacturing' and see what you find.

Regards,

Graham

 

[kinsler33]

It's helpful to be familiar with a far older technique that involves powdered metals. I do not know how you'd turn metal into a powder, but it's been done for 80 years or so. Then you mix the powdered metal with a binding agent, which is generally some sort of heat-setting plastic that is also powdered.

This composite powder is rammed into a sturdy mold which forms it into the desired shape. Considerable heat and pressure are then applied, and this fuses the binding agent together along with the metal powder. The result is a part of the desired shape, only it has the consistency and strength of chalk and can, in fact, be shaped further if desired.

Now it gets strange. It turns out that as we heat a piece of metal to just under its melting point it will tend to fuse to nearby particles of the same metal without actually melting. And so we heat our chalk-like part in a furnace. First, the binding agent burns off in a cloud of fragrant smoke. Then, as the temperature increases, the granules of powdered metal that remain fuse, or "sinter" into a solid piece that's very close to the shape of our chalk-like part.

The cooled part is extremely strong--approximately that of a solid piece--and accurately retains the detail from the mold. You can beat on it, and while it might bend, it won't fracture. I don't know if any clock parts were ever made this way, because it's cheaper to just use die-cast zinc or plastics, but I believe that parts for firearms and bicycle gearing (Sturmey-Archer used it for their 3-speed bicycle hub) were routinely made with molded powdered metal. This technique is also used to fashion tungsten carbide tools and, when they existed, the tungsten filaments in light bulbs. A variant containing metal oxides is used for rare-earth magnets,

One major difficulty is the term "powdered metal" because people tend to believe that finished parts will somehow crumble back into powder, which they will not. But nobody wants to hear that their brakes were made with powdered metal parts, which I believe some are.

A 3-D printer could easily use a mix of powdered metal and semi-solid binding agent, after which the part would be sintered in a furnace, and I believe that this is how it's done.

M Kinsler

 

[Jim DuBois]

There are a number of methods of printing parts using metals. While the sintering method M Kinsler is one of the methods, and perhaps the most common, another is using a laser to weld the very fine particles as they are deposited on the emerging piece. The machines that work in this fashion are still very expensive they turn out some very robust parts. One of the demonstrations of the technology was the "printing" of a complete Colt 1911A .45 cal handgun. While there are legal and ethical questions around such work, and they followed the law in their demonstration, I think it worth our review. I think they printed every part, except for the firing pin. They printed the springs in the gun itself, as well as the spring in the magazine. They then demonstrated the robustness of the gun by firing 50 rounds through it. See World's first 3D-printed metal gun blows through 50 rounds

So, I think it pretty reasonable to assume metal clock and watch parts can be printed today.

 

[shutterbug]

Like all printing jobs, it's faster and cheaper to print several copies once the job is started. So one-offs will be expensive, and only practical for parts that can't be produced in any other way .... at least in the short term until we all have parts printers as part of our shop tools

 

[Klaas]

This post was meant to be a reply to TH Tanner (I think) who sought a miserable plastic ratchet-gear-coupling-thing for a romantic cuckoo clock. But I think it's worth its own thread, because I suspect that others may have been as disappointed as I was.

3D printing would have been able to produce those parts almost instantly if everything had gone as predicted, which apparently they did not. My guess is that nobody was able to find a 3D printing material strong, stiff, and stable enough for a machine part, and I haven't seen anything at all about improvements in the precision and resolution of the printers themselves. So the 3-D printed products I've seen have been confined to things like mixing bowls and action figures.

Though I have a rather elderly NAWCC journal that describes the restoration of an electric clock by means of a 3D-printed plastic gear, it was quite a project and by this time I'd have expected to see Timesavers and them offer a 3D printing service for otherwise-impossible parts. But there's nothing, and the only parts I can think of that would work with the softish plastics currently in use would be replicas of wood clock wheels or case parts.

If anyone knows any more about this miraculous process than I do, I'd appreciate any comments.

M Kinsler

Hi M,

I like to try it for Knobs and other Cabinet parts.
I am just a beginner in clock repair but i have a simple 3d printer.
I like to try it but need STL files

 

[J. A. Olson]

Once in a while I make chime rod shipping clamps and small washers from 3D printings. To get the level of durability needed for something like a wheel or lever, you'd have to print from a material much more durable than the usual PLA or ABS. There are places that can print with metallic filament but the question is whether the costs and resources would be easier compared to doing things 'the old fashioned way'.