What does this wheel setup do? GB chimer

tracerjack

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I’ve been working on this GB chimer, and finally got things back together, which is when I finally took notice of this set of wheels on the back plate. These photos are before disassembly and cleaning.
08C5CEE9-4498-4B76-A876-5625DEC1FF0E.jpeg 92A6665E-D980-4477-BE80-4C6612369BCC.jpeg
I can’t quite figure out why the connecting wheels are there. The large wheel on the right is the ratchet system for the strike barrel. Why it connects through a series of wheels to the chime second wheel has me still scratching my head. I can only think as the chime mainspring unwinds, it must gradually wind the strike mainspring, but if so, why? I’ve never seen the two trains connected this way. I hope someone can explain this to me.
 
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Vernon

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It looks like it's transferring power to the strike lever.
Vernon
 

shutterbug

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It appears that the second wheel speeds the strike up and the third reverses the direction back again.
 

tracerjack

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Here is a better picture of it. The two center wheels are merely attached to the back plate, no tension washers on any.
GB chime1r.jpg
I watched the back side while initiating the chimes and the C2 turns the first connecting wheel on average 2 teeth for each chime sequence. But during one complete hour cycle, the last wheel doesn't appear to turn at all. Perhaps the arrangement just sort of preloads the strike wheel to assist the strike. Still, the strangest thing I have ever seen.

After writing this, I put a dot on the strike wheel, and it does turn one tooth for each hour in the direction I indicate in the photo. The strike ratchet is a separate piece from the wheel. The ratchet and click remain together while the wheel turns clockwise, so it must interlock somehow.
 
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wow

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Here is a better picture of it. The two center wheels are merely attached to the back plate, no tension washers on any.
View attachment 713952
I watched the back side while initiating the chimes and the C2 turns the first connecting wheel on average 2 teeth for each chime sequence. But during one complete hour cycle, the last wheel doesn't appear to turn at all. Perhaps the arrangement just sort of preloads the strike wheel to assist the strike. Still, the strangest thing I have ever seen.
If it is designed as a power assist for the chime train, there has to be a tensioner somewhere in those wheels. If not, the strike train would turn at the same time the chime train turns.:???:
 
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tracerjack

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If it is designed as a power assist for the chime train, there has to be a tensioner somewhere in those wheels. If not, the strike train would turn at the same time the chime train turns.:???:
Yes, it does turn at the same time the chime train runs, one tooth clockwise on the strike wheel for each hour sequence of chimes. I'm with you on this.:???:
 

Willie X

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I've never seen this but it is a very common problem for the chime train to be low on power at about the 5/6 day point with the strike still running strong.

A simple mechanism to transfer a little more 'umph' to the ole chime train would be a good thing. Another plus would be two springs/barrels that are closer to the same size and strength. This would make the chime side easier to wind and possibly a cost reduction too. (?)

Willie X
 

tracerjack

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I've never seen this but it is a very common problem for the chime train to be low on power at about the 5/6 day point with the strike still running strong.

A simple mechanism to transfer a little more 'umph' to the ole chime train would be a good thing. Another plus would be two springs/barrels that are closer to the same size and strength. This would make the chime side easier to wind and possibly a cost reduction too. (?)

Willie X
So then the strike wheel is sending power over to the chime second wheel. I thought the power was going the other way. What you suggest makes more sense since the chime hammers are quite long. I could see them needing a little help with power, especially by day 5/6. That also explains why the click and ratchet remained together. I kept thinking it impossible if the wheel was being turned counter to how it expands, the click would have move off the ratchet. And it didn't. Now it all makes sense. My curiosity is now satisfied. Thanks.
 

wow

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OK. The strike spring is in a barrel and if the power is released, the barrel has to turn, right? How can the power be transferred to the chime train without the strike train turning at the same time? Something has to keep that from happening. Something like the tensioner in the motion works that allows the wheels to turn without turning the time train would have to be in those wheels somewhere. Make sense? Or am I missing something?
 

tracerjack

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On top of that, there would have to be some sort of slippage when the chime train stops and the strike train is running. I suspect it is in that two part wheel & ratchet on the strike barrel arbor. I plan to study it some more tomorrow. After reading Wow’s comments, I find my curiosity is not so satisfied just yet.
 
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tracerjack

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I think I have it figured out now. Since the wheel on the strike arbor is free to turn on the arbor, when the chime train is released, the strike arbor is able to turn along with the chime side by the line of wheels and the click locked into the ratchet, adding power to the chime from the strike mainspring. But, the strike barrel is held in place by the locked strike train. When the chime train locks after the hour chime, and the strike train is released, the locked chime train can’t move, but the strike barrel is now free to turn. I had to repair a broken tooth on the left center wheel. Someone had already repaired broken teeth on the chime barrel. I have a feeling this design didn’t last long on the production line.
Here are some photos of the front and back of the strike wheel. The last photo is the wheel next to it. No clutch system on it; just a free to turn wheel. After realizing the importance of the ratchet being held by the pin, I quickly changed out the nail someone had previously used, for a properly sized taper pin. I had planned to do that after my testing was done, but realized that wasn’t a good plan.
A34A1288-4F40-4040-9CBC-94FD433F6D45.jpeg DAC221ED-627C-4E82-B9EA-AF09C7AA10E3.jpeg 4172CFFE-480B-47DB-AB3D-3B82E3AA5C2F.jpeg
 
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wow

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Thanks for explaining and sharing, Tracer. Crazy set-up! I’ve never seen it either. I agree it was probably short-lived.
 

Vernon

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I still can't wrap my head around it but it's been fun trying to figure it out! Maybe you could post a video from the back of it chiming and striking?

Vernon
 

tracerjack

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I still can't wrap my head around it but it's been fun trying to figure it out! Maybe you could post a video from the back of it chiming and striking?

Vernon
I did take some video, but didn’t post it because the actual movement of the wheels is so slight, even I couldn't really see anything happening in the video.
 
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RJSoftware

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In some electric clocks as time side electric motor cranks along providing time it simultaneously winding separate strike/chime spring barrels of limited duration. You can also individually wind those barrels so clock starts off chiming & striking. Or leave alone and eventually they get wound up by time train contribution. One trick they use is springs that slip when approach fully wound else the automated winding could break the spring (like self winding watches). The outer coils grip/slip the barrel because that portion of spring is reverse curled which creates enough grip for spring to do a one shot job. But also can slip to avoid breaking from overwinding. Seems like another power distribution thing.
 

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