What do the scratched numbers inside the case mean?

[Tom Banwell]

I have recently inherited my great grandfather's gold Agassiz pocket watch. Inside the back cover are many tiny scratched numbers (ie. 5154) and dates (ie. 4/27/31)and letters (ie. BOW). I assumed that these were watch repair marks, but my local antique dealer said they were pawn marks, indicating the watch had been pawned numerous times. Can anyone enlighten me on distinguishing such marks?

Tom

 

[Tom Banwell]

I have recently inherited my great grandfather's gold Agassiz pocket watch. Inside the back cover are many tiny scratched numbers (ie. 5154) and dates (ie. 4/27/31)and letters (ie. BOW). I assumed that these were watch repair marks, but my local antique dealer said they were pawn marks, indicating the watch had been pawned numerous times. Can anyone enlighten me on distinguishing such marks?

Tom

 

[Tom Banwell]

To clarify, the watch has a back cover which has the markings, and inside of that is the cover which hides the movement. Agassiz is marked on both the movement, and on the face. Stamped on the movement is the number 29692. Inside the movement cover is stamped the number 45506, and there are additional scratched dates on there as well as inside the outer back cover as previously mentioned. Thanks for any help.

Tom

 

[RichG]

Tom,
It was a common practice (in the good old days) for clock and watch repairmen to scratch their initials and dates when they repaired and/or serviced a watch or clock. This were usually placed inside the covers on a watch, where you found them. It is not too common today, though there still are those that do it. If you take a watch in for service be sure to tell them that you don't want it done! Many collectors frown on this practice.
Rich

 

[johnW]

I had a watch serviced a couple weeks ago and forgot to tell the watch maker to not scratch in the service marks date and initials etc.So he added them to the inside of the case back no biggie but I would have preferred he did not put them in,however there was many from before so no biggie but next time I will tell him to not put them on any more of my watches.I thought they stopped doing that years ago.To me it was a dumb practice in the first place all the watchmaker had to do is record the serial number and have a ledger book to record his work..and not mess up the case back.
Cheers
JW

 

[Tom Banwell]

Thanks for the responses. Do you know if a pawnbroker would mark a pocket watch ?

Another question: Is it possible to look up Agassiz and the movement number 29692 and find out when it was made?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[alan goebes]

I thought this was still a common practice--the watchmakers I have used in the past still did it. As long as it was done neatly I never had a problem with it. Do others collectors really frown on it?

It was my understanding that there was no established system of marking--every watchmaker used his own. One watchmaker who had worked in Chicago(now long dead) told me that, if the police found a watch on an identified body, they would circulate the repair numbers to local repair shops in hopes of finding the corresponding watchmaker, who in turn could give a name to the deceased.

As far as using the watch serial numbers as a tracking system instead, it seems to me that, in pre-computer days, this would be impractical--how would the watchmaker have maintained and searched such a large and ever-growing data base? (I guess he could have recorded each repair on a separate index card and filed by serial number, but think of how much space such a file would eventually occupy.)

As an anectdote, twenty-some years ago I took a watch back to my regular repairman and complained that it was not running right, even though I remembered him having cleaned it fairly recently. He looked at the number, checked his records, and showed me it had been almost three years since his repair. Needless to say I quickly stopped complaining.

I hope those of you out there who are more knowledgeable (and that's most of you) will correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

 

[Tom Huber]

Alan, I had posted this info in the past, but will repeat it here to confirm what you said. A watchmaker friend in my area is a member of AWI. He told me that AWI members have a mark which they register with the association. He told me the story that about 20 years ago, many years after he had left the Chicago area and moved to western PA, he received a call from a homicide detective in the Chicago PD. They had a Jane Doe body. the only item she had on her body was her wristwatch. The PD had opened the wristwatch and saw the repair mark. Through the AWI, they traced the mark to my friend in western PA. He had kept his repair logbooks and was able to give them a name and address of a woman in Chicago. He heard later that the body was identified from this and the killer was found. Your reference to this is the only other one I had heard about the Chicago PD.

I wonder if this is common police practice.

Tom

Tom Huber

 

[Gabriel Marquardt]

Does the number of different marked numbers on the case indicate the number of times it's been serviced? I have 6 different engraved numbers from different times on the back of the case of my great great grandfather's pocket watch.

 

[Ron DeGenaro]

That's probably true. Watches were serviced every few years.

 

[roughbarked]

I was taught to do it. I've always done it. It makes it easier to know if you have been inside the watch or clock before. I also scratch a date on every battery I fit along with my rcognisable scrawl. Yes, it does indicate how many repairers use this method to manage their records of repairs done and as such is an indication of how often the watch has been serviced. On clocks this may vary in that wooden cases will have the marks done in pencil.