What determines a clocks value?

[RickThomes]

After a recent posting by Chris, asking “Recommended Price Guide”, I have been pondering what determines a clocks value? Is it rarity? Is it Condition? Is it supply and demand? Is it emotional demand?

I am and have been a collector and not overly concerned with the monetary value but more the value of the clock to my collection. I seldom sell but often buy those items that I desire for my collection and admit that it is mostly based on emotional demand.

What is your opinion?

 

[RickThomes]

After a recent posting by Chris, asking “Recommended Price Guide”, I have been pondering what determines a clocks value? Is it rarity? Is it Condition? Is it supply and demand? Is it emotional demand?

I am and have been a collector and not overly concerned with the monetary value but more the value of the clock to my collection. I seldom sell but often buy those items that I desire for my collection and admit that it is mostly based on emotional demand.

What is your opinion?

 

[Chris-langston]

Is it rarity? Is it Condition? Is it supply and demand? Is it emotional demand?

Well If I had to rank them I would say

1. supply and demand
2. emotional demand
3. condition
4. rarity

I have had clocks in the past that were documented as rare examples. I had it priced about 1/2 of what the "experts" say it is worth. And could not sell it. They were scared of paying to much for a rare clock. So in my opion rarity is low priority and the demand for an item is high priority. thats my 2 cents worth.

 

[harold bain]

Hi Rick. If you are talking about auction prices, it would definately depend on how many people in the room know what it is and want it. That is why I prefer country auctions, there is less informed competition for clocks. Ebay is a different animal altogether. Harold

 

[BILL KAPP]

Chris/Rick,

I think Chris has it right if you are establishing a "book value". Another angle would be to ask "value to who?"

I was bidding on a clock on Ebay where I was the high bidder at 3000, kinda thought that established the value but unfortunately that did not meet the sellers reserve.

One of the problems of ebay is you have to realize that you just paid 25 dollars more than any other "idiot" in the world would.

For the clock I mentioned, I kept testing the reserve and got it a couple of minutes before the auction closed for $4000. That was $1025 more than any other idiot would pay.

It is my second most favorite clock and I don't regret it a bit. I have only seen one other like it and Rick isn't selling at any price. Of course now that I have one, I probably wouldn't be willing to pay such a premium for another.

When romance enters the picture, logic isn't applicable.

Happy hunting,

 

[Sooth]

I think this question could have as many answers as there are collectors.

Personally, I collect by rarity, and condition, but price is usually my first priority. I don't like to pay too much (the cheaper they are, the more I can collect!), but I like to get "bang for my buck".

It really depends. I look for clocks that are in mostly original condition, or that can be restored. I don't like anything that's a mariage, or that has had all it's parts swapped at different times. I like early american clocks, and look for the "classic" shapes, like steeple clocks, column clocks, Ogee clocks, and various shelf clocks.

But that's just me.

 

[Chris Radano]

I always like this topic.
Some of my pieces I purchased for rarity- they may not be desirable. Others I have for aesthetic beauty- they may not be as rare, but many collectors find them desirable. I place a lot of value on the types I collect- I collect them because of my personal taste. I stay away from a lot of pieces that are desirable, because they do not reflect my personal taste... I may still admire, and respect, those types.
Where am I going with this? Just to point out That, yes, resale value should always be considered when making a purchase. However, personal fondness of a piece may have priority for certain purchases.
When they were first manufactured, clocks and timepieces sold to their market at a monetary price. Some expensive models are still expensive. Some were manufactured to be inexpensive, and may always be plentiful in the marketplace.
I believe to always look for quality, but sometimes it is nice to see a less expensive clock, if it is in good condition.

 

[Scottie-TX]

I try to look at prices realistically. We all have some idea what something is worth, definitely not worth, and what we'd be willing to pay. If a seller is a little over the value in my mind - I'll work with them. I'm not gonna turn my back for 50 or a hundred dollars on, let's say, a 500 to thousand dollar clock. Now if the seller thinks his 500 dollar clock is worth a thousand - he's simply gonna hafta find a sucker and it won't be me.

 

[RickThomes]

I am still more convinced than ever that value is based primarily on emotion and the emotional desire to own an example of a specific clock. I think the perfect example is the Seth Thomas # 2 oak regulator and the Howard # 70. Both of these clocks were made in the thousands and thousands and distributed thru out the USA and where produced into the first quarter of the 1900's. They both fetch very high prices for the numbers produced and I believe it is because of the timeless beauty and elegance of both cases. They are the type clock once seen, you say inside your brain, one day I will own one of those. I bet there are more of those two clocks, in private clock collections than just about any others.

So, I would suggest that value is determined in this order >

1. Emotional Demand
2. Supply and Demand
3. Condition
4. Rarity.

 

[lamarw]

One thing that has not been mentioned is the particular clock's provenance. It could be of great value as a family heirloom, or it could, like many other item types, be of dramatically increased value if it previously belonged to a famous or notable person. I can not validate that fact with any of my clocks, but I do have a couple of watches that meet the criteria.

 

[Don Havens]

I operate on a very limited cash base, so price is always of major concern. After that, looks play a big role in my decision-making process. If it looks good (purely personal; no Korean or quartz)and the price is right, I may just buy it. That's how I wound up with all these projects to finish!! Ha-Ha! Cuckoos, too!

Another grabber for me is trying to save the old clocks that no one wants. I love to take a basket case clock and "work a little magic" on it. It is really gratifying to see a "junker" come out looking really good. My wife just shekes her head at some of the awful stuff I buy, and is then blown away when it turns out looking great. I'm mostly into mantle/tambor/wall clocks.

Don

 

[Scottie-TX]

OOOOOoooh! LAM! "PROVENANCE"! I Luvvitt! Thanks. Don; I understand what you're saying and to some extent most of us have a budget of some kind. Of course, bottom line is that you enjoy your interest. I've done both but I know you'll understand that if you restore a basketcase $50. clock you may double your money. If you restore a basketcase $500. clock you may double your money. Sometimes it's no more work to restore a $500. clock than a $50. clock.

 

[Robert Ling]

I agree Rick, emotion plays a big role. Some clocks are just more appealing to us. American made clocks for instance.

Another factor in the price of antique clocks is the quality of the clock and what it sold for when new. If it was an expensive clock when new it more than likely will be today too.

 

[RJSoftware]

Purely emotional.

I know this because when I buy a clock it is strictly for me.

My mother come over to the house and I showed her my new "Hollywood" regulator.

She started hinting about mother's day.

No dice Mom!

RJ

 

[Bill Ward]

One component not yet mentioned is fashion. Recently we went through a period when Swedish neoclassical design was all the rage, as seen in many decorating and home magazines. These freqently featured ads showing white painted violin-shaped tallcase clocks (even when the ad was for something entirely different, such as flooring) and these clocks became extremely expensive. I saw one with a modern movement in a decorators shop for $37,000! At least one company started to reproduce them for about $10,000. But about 30 years ago, Merritts got a containerload of these, and they were selling them for about $200.
Similarly, in the 1950's & 60's, Louis XV roccoco became the decorator's mantra, and anything French shot through the roof.
Now, Mission style has finally become fashionable, boosted by Hollywood collectors like Barbara Streisand and Robert Redford, but even 20 years ago, that stuff was commonly found in the trash.
Some critics define the "dangerous decades" during which a style is deprecated and discarded, as the first five after stylishness ceases.

 

[RickThomes]

Bill,

That is a great observation and holds true thru out the antique mantra. We all have our favorite designs and styles that at times are up in value and then we see the values drop without any obvious reason. I believe the real value is to collect what makes you happy and the monetary value is truly secondary.