What a shame - absolutley sickened

Discussion in 'Horological Misc' started by bajaddict, Nov 30, 2012.

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  1. Thyme

    Thyme Registered Users

    Sep 18, 2006
    3,951
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    Excellent point, well stated. Similarly, I once bought a Gilbert Curfew clock on eBay. During shipping the movement tore loose from the case. The clock was literally totaled beyond repair. The box was undamaged. The extensive damage caused wasn't UPS's fault, it was because the seller didn't realize it could happen. Fortunately for me the seller accepted responsibility and gave me a full refund. UPS returned it to the seller at no charge to me.

    The rule of thumb in any insurance claim is whether the box is damaged or not. In this (the OP's) case it is obvious that the shipping box sustained an impact. That is the liability of the shipping company (which is why anything valuable needs to be insured by the seller).

    In my experience: USPS is the most red tape ridden shipper regarding claims. The government has a rule or a regulation for everything imaginable. The person holding the receipt (the seller) is the one to file the claim. I had an uninsured clock that was shipped to me that USPS delivered when I wasn't home, leaving it on my porch. Apparently it was stolen. USPS refused to pay anything because it was uninsured. It tried suing them in small claims court and lost. Why? Because you can't sue the U.S. government. After that incident I installed a self locking mailbox to provide secure delivery of mail and parcels. But now, often their dumb mail carriers won't close the box fully enough to lock it, despite a notice in big letters on the front of the box to close it firmly. :mad:

    In the world of the US Postal system the phrase "throw the mail" is actually said. Apparently they take that phrase literally.

    Another clock I bought on eBay (that was insured) was a Gilbert Westminster banjo clock. The idiot seller used virtually no packing at all in the box. That one was smashed to pieces. USPS rightfully recognized it to be the seller's liability and refused the claim, which the seller needed to file. I returned it to the seller who was in denial and intransigent. EBay denied my claim and refused to pay me anything! Thank God I paid for it by credit card, not PayPal. I filed an appeal with Citibank and they gave me a full refund through a chargeback.

    Remember that: when buying anything of value to be shipped, always pay by credit card. It's your best defense against an irresponsible seller and packer of the shipped item. Regardless of the nonsense of the early days of eBay, it is the responsibility of the seller/sender to purchase shipping insurance, not the buyer.

    UPS is pretty good about damage claims. I had one item that I shipped that was a 1/4 inch thick stone disc, simply secured in thick cardboard on both sides and clearly marked fragile. It won't break unless it is dropped. Apparently that's how it got broken. Despite the parcel being unscathed they did pay me on the claim. With UPS, items under $100 are automatically insured and everything is tracked.

    As another mentioned:
    FedEx and UPS are similar - but USPS is the worst.
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User

    Jun 24, 2008
    2,071
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    This happened to me once. It was a nice Vienna. They demolished it. I now do as Scottie and others said and double box every clock I ship. The outside box should have at least two inches between it and the inside box on all six sides, and foam or bubble wrab tight between the two boxes. I have never had a problem with a clock since I started packing that way.I charge the buyer for the extra work.

    Will
     
  3. Mark Williams

    Jan 9, 2013
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    In my experience ALL the shippers are bad: Post Office, UPS, AND FED EX. They make NO attempt to handle your stuff with even reasonable care. The people who suggest the masonite and rigid foam reinforcements to boxes are thinking right. And always double box.

    As for insurance, it's a total joke. Case in point. I spent a lot of time restoring a really neat old RCA Victor 45 rpm record changer. I packed it very, very well when I shipped it to a fellow and took out the insurance. When it got trashed....oh boy....according to FED EX it was ALL MYfault and I practically had to threaten to burn down one of their facilities to obtain my claim money. It was a good six weeks of jumping through hoops, and fighting with people on the phone for a lousy $145 claim.

    It wasn't the money. It was the fact that this nice little record player was fine since 1949 --- until the day Fed Ex got their little gorilla mitts on it. Then - RUINED! What idiocy!

    Apparently to these shippers it's a more efficient business model to jerk around a customer and spend endless hours fighting with him rather than: 1) try handling the package sensibly and 2) simply just honoring a legitimate claim for a package they darned well know they destroyed.

    It's business practices like this that make you sick to your stomach and you also know why other countries are eating us for lunch. Why should we consumers have any sort of loyalty to a company that treats you like that? I can probably count on one hand the companies I feel are outstanding and back up what they purport in advertisements.

    I feel for the loss of your nice clock. It's a darned shame.

    Mark
     
  4. TQ60

    TQ60 Registered User

    Sep 15, 2016
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    We have shipped things all over the world back in the eBay days and even managed to get a glass dome for a 400 day clock we picked up in Florida home to Ca in our checked soft sided baggage so packing is something we are somewhat good at.

    Newspapers crumpled up and packed in seem to be very good material as it gives good cushion and maintains pressures in all directions and can be used to wrap items for general protection.

    White foam holds things in place but offers little to no cushion, not good for fragile things but okay for filler.

    Last check before sending is to shake the box and confirm it acts as a solid chunk, any movement or sounds require a repack.

    if anything moves in any way then Newton will act on it and cause destruction.

    Lots of room between item and outside as many things get squished and dropped.

    double boxing helps as well, there needs to be 3 inch minimum on all sides and more if the item inside center is heavy, the packing between the 2 boxes needs to be firm but not solid as this is the cushion for drops and slams.

    The inside box converts the assorted parts and items into a single cube, the material between the inside box and outside box needs to have some give to allow the inside box to move a bit to absorb shock loads and resist the squishing that happens when it is on bottom of the pile.

    If it is something that is glass or can be crushed then make darn sure there is a lot of room between the item and any side or corner.

    A chunk of plywood can be used for additional support if needed.

    The added weight for properly packing does not add much cost at all, and few if any customers who are paying the bill would risk the item by cheaping out on the shipping.

    We have used USPS as well as UPS, ALWAYS insure item regardless of who what where as the insurance sticker on the outside of the box may be an indicator to be careful...or not...

    For fragile things we ALWAYS used UPS as we could use larger well suited boxes and the cost was based on weight and distance, if it was not breakable it went cheapest carrier.

    A side note is regarding "porch pirates", lately lots of folks have been on the news as cameras collecting video of people snatching freshly delivered items.

    FedEx and USPS are the worst as well as many un-named carriers that Amazon uses in that they toss the box on your porch and run, they are too lazy to even ring the doorbell.

    UPS on the other hand requires a signature, and there is rumor of them maybe having option to drop it on the porch, and they also have a form that the receiver can sign authorizing the driver to leave it on the porch.

    When shipping always confirm a signature will be collected, simple state that no signature is no delivery PERIOD!

    Be sure the receiver gets the tracking information as well as insurance confirmation as well as making it clear that as far as you are concerned "NO SIGNATURE IS NO DELIVERY" .

    This means that until they sign for the package it is OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, it is under SHIPPER'S control until they sign for it (insurance is in place) or if dropped on the porch the insurance stops at that point and it is the customers responsibility.

    This must be made crystal clear before shipping takes place, we always quoted shipping for the packed weight and insured for sold price as the "bill of sale" clearly establishes value.
     

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