Westminster chimes every 4 hours only.

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
Hi all.

Firstly, a small problem was that it didn't strike the correct hours on the hour (after a couple of days - I thought it may self-right itself first!), so I took the hands and the face off, and replaced the hour hand in the correct place. This is fine now.


But, strangely, the clock just 'clicks' when you get to quarter past, half past, and quarter to. and only chimes on the hour.


Say, at 12am, it will play the quarter past chime
1am, the half past chime,
2am, the quarter to chime,
and then at 3am it will do its full chime and strike three.
Then, continue this pattern until its full chime at 7am again and so on...

It it only strikes the correct hour and full chime every four hours?!


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o654/jbowersuk/image-5_zps4d841c84.jpeg


After watching, I think it may be to do with the parts not lifting high enough in the above photo for it to connect on the quarter, half and quarter to, but I am not certain and do not want to touch anything for fear of damaging it.

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks.
 

AlpineRaven

Registered User
Sep 16, 2013
88
0
6
Melbourne, Australia
Country
Region
Yep.. The clock itself needs a good clean out (I noticed in one of the photos it has a build up of dust) which could be an indication that is luck of oil so it'll need to be cleaned out.
Cheers
AP
 

Randy Beckett

Registered User
NAWCC Member
May 23, 2012
2,555
24
38
Mt. Pleasant, Tx
Country
Region
Could you show a chime side view of your movement, showing between the plates?

One question about your picture. Is the long lever that is marked moving up at all on the quarter, half, and three-quarter lifts? image-5_zps4d841c84.jpg
 
Last edited:

Randy Beckett

Registered User
NAWCC Member
May 23, 2012
2,555
24
38
Mt. Pleasant, Tx
Country
Region
We just need to see the movement from the side(the right side as pictured above), to be able to see between the plates at the gearing.

The long lever should move up just a little on the first three quarters and move up higher on the hour. The long lever pivots on the shaft on the far right. That shaft goes all the way through the movement and probably has a lever attached to it, between the plates, that interacts with the gearing to start the chiming process when the long lever lifts. You can probably look in that side while lifting the long lever manually and figure out how it is supposed to work and why it's not.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,320
1,354
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
I suspect that the stop lever is just a fraction too low, and will not lift to allow the train to go into warning. It lifts at the hour only (the highest lift, because it has an auto-synch mechanism), and plays the next 1/4 hour tune on the drum. After that, it stops (as it should). A pic will show us where your stop lever is, and offer clues on how to adjust it.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
Great, thanks. Starting to make some progress now.

When it clicks at each quarter, if I manually push the small black screw down it all operates as it should at each quarter, half past and quarter to etc and strikes at the hour....:)

So, now I just need to work out how to get it to do it by itself.

Do these photos help?





attachment.jpg
 

Attachments

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,320
1,354
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Right angle, wrong plate :) Get one or two of the front plate (inside).
 

Randy Beckett

Registered User
NAWCC Member
May 23, 2012
2,555
24
38
Mt. Pleasant, Tx
Country
Region
That helps. I THINK the lever pictured is the one that is connected to the shaft that the long lever on the front is attached to. It looks like the hooked end of this lever rides on a cam on the gear arbot. This cam will have a notch on it that the lever can catch to stop and hold the gear train and keep it from running. while slowly turning the minute hand past the first three quarters, see if this lever is lifting high enough to release this cam.

The other lever and cam you see in the picture(I THINK) is part of the auto-synchronizer mechanism.

westminster2.jpg
 

Attachments

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,320
1,354
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Randy's conclusion sounds right to me. One lever will be for the quarter hours, the other for the hour. You'll be concentrating on the 1/4 hour lever. It looks like it's friction fit, and can be raised a tiny bit to make it function correctly. Go slow. Tiny adjustments. Lift against something solid, like a post.
 

Eckytock

Registered User
Feb 24, 2012
69
0
6
Country
Region
I became interested in this thread as I have the same "Enfield" movement, where the chime sequence is in working order. Looking at the photo of your movement, now plastered with arrows there are a couple of differences I would be looking at.

The pin (Green Arrow) attached to the long lever looks slightly raised. What is holding it up there as it is not touching the pin on the chime warning lever (Blue)?

The chime correction lever is in a strange position (White) it should be sitting on the pin attached to the locking plate (Pink) just prior to the hour chime sequence. During the hourly chime sequence the chime correction lever is pushed back to its usual (9 O'clock) postion.

The chime correction arbour protrudes through the front plate. Is it in its correct postion which is to the left of the correction lever?

I will try to load a video showing the three quarter and hour operation. Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

image-5a.jpg

[video=youtube_share;Zcwg5AxlhMk]http://youtu.be/Zcwg5AxlhMk[/video]
 

Randy Beckett

Registered User
NAWCC Member
May 23, 2012
2,555
24
38
Mt. Pleasant, Tx
Country
Region
Thanks Eckytock for posting the video.

It makes me think of how great a tool it would be for all of us if we had a library that members here could upload properly working chiming movements of all types and makes to, for quick reference when problems such as this one comes up.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
Randy's conclusion sounds right to me. One lever will be for the quarter hours, the other for the hour. You'll be concentrating on the 1/4 hour lever. It looks like it's friction fit, and can be raised a tiny bit to make it function correctly. Go slow. Tiny adjustments. Lift against something solid, like a post.
Sorry for such a slow reply. Thank you for all you help and going to the efforts of posting photos and videos etc!

I've had a quick look tonight with the face still on the clock. Not had time to remove it tonight but can do if needs be.

I think the quarter lever is not lifting enough. It almost falls off the notch at each quarter but doesn't unless I help it slightly.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
It's the lever referred to in post 12 with the red lines drawn on.

Does les that screw somehow adjust how high it lifts? How much of a turn are we talking?

Could you you please expand on the comment 'Lift against something solid, like a post'?

Many thanks.
 

Randy Beckett

Registered User
NAWCC Member
May 23, 2012
2,555
24
38
Mt. Pleasant, Tx
Country
Region
Thanks to the video Eckytock posted in Post#14 I think you should chech the lever he marked with the pink arrow on the picture. After it chimes the first or second quarter that lever should be in the same position as it is on his movement at the beginning of the video, and it's not. Look at it and wiggle it some and see if it is stuck or jammed in some way. Can't tell from the pictures if it is the problem or just indicating the problem from somewhere else but it is definately out of position.

The screw you ask about is just a set screw that locks the lever to the shaft. We'll take another look at that later after you work out why the beforementioned lever is out of position.
 

Eckytock

Registered User
Feb 24, 2012
69
0
6
Country
Region
Chime Correction Arbour2.jpg

I cannot see where the end of the brass coloured spring is attached to this arbour. The end of the spring should be wrapped around this arbour. If it is not attached then I assume the Chime Correction Arbour would not spring back to its rightfull position. The clock would be in constant chime correction mode.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
194566.jpg

I cannot see where the end of the brass coloured spring is attached to this arbour. The end of the spring should be wrapped around this arbour. If it is not attached then I assume the Chime Correction Arbour would not spring back to its rightfull position. The clock would be in constant chime correction mode.
This spring is attached.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
Thanks to the video Eckytock posted in Post#14 I think you should chech the lever he marked with the pink arrow on the picture. After it chimes the first or second quarter that lever should be in the same position as it is on his movement at the beginning of the video, and it's not. Look at it and wiggle it some and see if it is stuck or jammed in some way. Can't tell from the pictures if it is the problem or just indicating the problem from somewhere else but it is definately out of position.

The screw you ask about is just a set screw that locks the lever to the shaft. We'll take another look at that later after you work out why the beforementioned lever is out of position.
This lever lifts each quarter and then drops back down again?!
 

Randy Beckett

Registered User
NAWCC Member
May 23, 2012
2,555
24
38
Mt. Pleasant, Tx
Country
Region
It should be up all the time until it gets to the end of the 3rd quarter when a pin on the cam pushes it down. It is released only by the higher lift that occurs on the hour and the spring should raise it back up.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
Right....

I've taken the hands and face off, then watched what happens at each quarter.

It all works almost perfectly.... The only thing it does wrong is to strike once at quarter past.

Just to confirm.... I've changed nothing!

Put it back together and it still seems to be working.

The only thing I haven't done, is put the small washer and pin back on thats stops the hands falling off in theory.

My only explanation must be that the hands were pushed too tightly on and were binding or making some part of the mechanism stick? Can this be the case?? The pin and washer were very tight.

Here's a video either way. http://youtu.be/esp6w1dCAGo

If anyone knows why it strikes once on the quarter past that would be helpful but not the end of the world!!

thanks.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,320
1,354
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Just what, not why. On the 1/4 hour, something is lifting the rack hook. Not enough to drop the rack, but enough that it can't fall back under the rack properly. That's what is triggering the single strike on the quarter.
 

Eckytock

Registered User
Feb 24, 2012
69
0
6
Country
Region
The reason your strike/chime sequence does not operate as it should is because the chime correction lever is not working. This lever is arrowed white in the following photo and is operated by the pin on the locking plate arrowed pink.
image-5a.jpg
My theory on the reason your clock is striking 1 o'clock on the quarter past is because the high lobe on the star cam (hidden behind the snail) is lifting the strike unlocking lever (long black one) high enough to drop the rack slightly. This should then go on to strike the hour but the locking plate is positioned at quarter past. You must try to get that chime correction lever working - checkout the posted videos - mine on post #14 and yours on post #23 and compare the operation of this lever.
 

jbowersuk@hotmail.com

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
12
0
0
Eckytock

Thank you. The chime correction lever was not doing anything and was flapping in the breeze so to speak. Excuse the terminology but there is a rod coming through the plate that is spring loaded that keeps the chime correction lever in place. This had slipped off the correction lever so it wasn't held up in the right place so wasn't doing anything or engaging on the small pin. Does that make sense??

Touch wood - all good so far.

Many thanks for all your help and everyone else that contributed.
 

Eckytock

Registered User
Feb 24, 2012
69
0
6
Country
Region
Yes, that rod coming through the arbour is called the Chime Correction Arbour. Pleased that it now working OK.
 
Our 2021 National Meeting in Hampton Roads Virginia
Topic related ad experiment
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES

Find member

Forum statistics

Threads
160,923
Messages
1,396,031
Members
82,912
Latest member
Isignaslily
Encyclopedia Pages
1,099
Total wiki contributions
2,788
Last edit
How to wire a 24 volt secondary for a 12 volt ITR/IBM Master clock system by Toughtool