Westminster, chime starts too soon and lasts too long!

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by TrevorWhatmore, Mar 18, 2017.

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  1. TrevorWhatmore

    TrevorWhatmore New Member

    Mar 16, 2017
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    My son-in-law asked me to look at his Westminster chime, mantelpiece clock where chime was running on too long and starting early, particularly on the hour. There are absolutely no markings to indicate origin or manufacturer. It seems that the centre cam’s ‘teeth’ on the shaft of the minute hand are holding up the long lever (via the lifting lever) for too long, and therefore causing the chime to run on until the lifting lever has slipped back into its rest position.
    Between the 15 minute events when the long lever is not being lifted, pulling down the test lever (on right-hand-side with eye hole) results in the expected number of chimes and strikes.
    Chime and strike apart, this clock keeps good time.
     

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  2. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
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    Is it consistently starting early all the time on allchime sequences? If so check if the mainspring nite hand has a bushing you can rotate to correct that. As for the sequence being too long once again is that consistent on all sequences or just the hour? It very well could be that there is a lever (maybe gravity fed) that is slightly gummed up and not falling quick enough causing it to continue on.
     
  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    Sep 27, 2005
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    For my own information could you please explain what is meant by 'the mainspring nite hand'? Going by the rest of your message I would think you were talking of the 'minute hand collet' but perhaps I am quite wrong.

    My apologies for asking but I am not in US and sometimes have difficulty knowing the American terms.

    JTD
     
  4. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    Apr 4, 2006
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    Sounds to me that the clock begins chiming a few minutes before the hour and qrt hour when it should only be going into "warning". Check for a missing pin on the warning wheel or the warning stop lever not adjusted correctly. Shortly before the chime point the clock should go into 'warning' where the wheels of the chime train move briefly until the warning stop pin is arrested by a lever. When the lifting lever drops on the quarter the warning stop pin is released and chiming begins for the proper count.

    RC
     
  5. Jasons34

    Jasons34 Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
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    JTD sorry about that. I meant minute hand bushing. Lately my iPad has been acting very sluggish and causes words to type incorrectly thus auto corrects them. If I would have proof read I would have picked it up
     
  6. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    Sep 27, 2005
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    Thanks for explaining Jason, spellcheckers are a very mixed blessing in my opinion! I thought you must have meant the minute hand, but the words were was so far away from that so I began to wonder if I was ignorant of some important US terminology!

    Thanks again.

    JTD
     
  7. TrevorWhatmore

    TrevorWhatmore New Member

    Mar 16, 2017
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    Hi Jason34
    Yes, all chimes start early. I did turn the bushing and this resulted in the chimes starting less early but it made no difference to the 'extended' duration of the chime which eventually stops when the centre cam tooth allows the lifting lever to drop back to its rest position. I have checked (as best I can) for 'gummed up' levers but they all seem to be free. I am inclined to agree with R Crosswell with regard to the warning position although I haven't checked this yet.
     
  8. TrevorWhatmore

    TrevorWhatmore New Member

    Mar 16, 2017
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    Hi RC
    I notice that a short time before the strike, the mechanism goes into the 'warning' mode like you describe. The strike, once started works fine. I wasn't sure if this should happen for the chime and haven't looked out for it. I will check again to see if it is happening. How can I identify the warning wheel and/or warning lever??
     
  9. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Sounds like the chime stop pin has broken off. Look at the front of the clock; just to the right of center you will see a small brass rotating disk. There should be a steel pin sticking out from the back side of this disk. This pin is what actually stops the chime train at each quarter. If you don't see a pin, look closely and you will see the stub where it broke off. You can replace the pin or look for a new or good used disk.
    Willie X
     
  10. TrevorWhatmore

    TrevorWhatmore New Member

    Mar 16, 2017
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    No, there is no 'warning' for the chime, it just starts up as soon as the lifting lever reaches a certain height. Can anyone help me identify the 'warning' wheel and the 'warning' stop lever.

    TW
     
  11. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    The warning wheel drives the fly. It normally has nothing to do with stopping the train. The afore mentioned stop pin stops the train.
    Willie X
     
  12. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    It is not a stopping problem, it is a warning problem.
    It is not waiting in warning.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  13. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User
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    Not familiar with the exact movement you have but generally the warning wheel with the warning stop pin will usually be the wheel that drives the fly or 'fan'. Check that wheel for a small 'stop pin' or a hole where a pin may have been. The warning stop lever will be the lever that can move into position to arrest the stop pin.

    RC
     
  14. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    One of the pieces that sticks threw the plate would stop against the
    warning pin during warning. It would hold until the star cam drops
    the lever.
    I agree with RC. It sounds like the warning pin is broken.
    This often happens around this time of year when people advance
    the time incorrectly and catch the pin, snapping it off.
    ( Willie read post #10 again )
    Tinker Dwight
     
  15. ragobo

    ragobo Registered User

    Apr 14, 2015
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    This youtube video explains how the chime mechanism works on most clock movements. There you can see the wheel that drives the fan with its warning pin. Worth watching it.

    https://youtu.be/MFiFrE4C_W8


    By the way I think when the reparation is done you'll need to move again the minute shaft bush to its previous position.
     
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