Westfield Watch Company

Discussion in 'Wrist Watches' started by Hawk53, Dec 24, 2013.

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  1. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Mindless,
    Thanks for sharing and adding to the ever growing mystery of Westfield :)
    I'm pretty sure you watch is 1940 based on the stainless steel case back. Looks to be in really good shape for a 74 year old watch. I looked through my Westie ads which are pretty slim at this time and I couldn't find a match, and as you know, without a ad we'll probably never have a name.
    But the hunt goes on never the less!
     
  2. Mindless

    Mindless Registered User

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    It runs well and has been keeping time for the last two days so I'm pretty happy with it. I just really liked the case design/style. Some of the ladies case designs are quite striking to me. I like them. I just wish they were larger and easier to see. I looked through some vintage Bulova ads and so far the closest I've found was/is called "The Barbara". The pictures are kind of hard to see so I'm going to continue to check further but that's what I've come up with so far. Yep, The hunt goes on.
     
  3. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Sweet!!! Bare in mind that you're dealing with a really old watch, so if you're planning on wearing it, it's probably going to need a clean/oil/adjust, just to be safe.
     
  4. Mindless

    Mindless Registered User

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    Yes. I imagine it's never been serviced as there are no marks inside the back. That'll be something I do when I have a bit more time since it'd be just for me. I wouldn't be able to wear it anyway as my wrists are somewhat larger than what little band/strap is available on it. Maybe carry it in my pocket once in a while. I'll probably just put it away for my grandaughter to have when she's older. It still won't be worth much but with a little luck it will spark her interest.
     
  5. shinytickythings

    shinytickythings Registered User

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    Hi Hawk!

    I was wondering if those are your watches and if you can tell me about the case signatures. I'm presuming that the Bulova case is signed Bulova, but what of the Gruen? And what is the back?

    Curious because I have some, what I think/thought are some NOS knock offs of this Bulova case. Not really sure what they are. I picked them up because I really liked the design. I have a few different signatures, but it's not Bulova. Even some slight variation in the case work/design itself. All have stainless backs though. 10k rgp for the case. Size is commensurate with what is listed for the Bulova Ashford/Jordan. The crystal at least, is a perfect match.

    Regards,
    S
     
  6. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    The examples (of watches) you referred to in the quote bubble were examples sent to me by another collector. I do own a Bulova "Ashford" and it carries the standard "Bulova Watch Case Co." signature. I also own a "Jordan" (stuffed away somewhere in a box) which also sports the "Bulova Watch Case Co." sig. Both have the RGP case backs, not SS.

    I've seen the Gruen (in person) case and it also had the RGP case back but I don't recall what the manufacture markings were. I'll look through some notes and see what I can find out.
     
  7. shinytickythings

    shinytickythings Registered User

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    Thank you, Hawk.
    Just the fact that the backs all have matching rgp on the brand names tells me a lot, I think.
    Several of mine are marked "Master USA. Stainless Back" on the inside.
    One is marked "Rex W.C. CO. Stainless back" and has an R in a barrel shaped cartouche. That one seems constructed a little different. The note worthy difference is that the "rings" the lugs pass through are not soldered together. The lugs themselves are obviously soldered into place, but there is a distinctive space in between those pieces.

    Thanks for your info! And great thread btw. I enjoyed it very much. :)
    Will be keeping my eye out for Westfields now.

    Regards,
    S
     
  8. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    You're welcome Steve. The REX watch case company is a hard nut to crack (information wise) and I've seen other examples by them including "drivers" watches. Your comment about the rings and lugs surprises me, especially what you said about the "space between those two pieces", On the "Ashford" there is no gap or spacing and appear to be all molded and seamless. When I looked at the "Gruen" version, I don't recall seeing any visible spacing either. I'm especially interested in case comparisons between brands, as I think it's relatively "unexplored territory" so to speak.

    Thanks also for the comment about the thread, although I can't take credit for starting it, I damn sure am trying to expand it from the original questions to hopefully finding some answers. This sort of became a obsession after I got "POO-POOED" off another website with them stating emphatically that "these aren't Bulovas and don't belong in this forum!!!". Yet these are the same folks that rely on a data base of both ID's and ads that is so full of holes and mistakes in ID's it might as well be "Swiss cheese" than "Swiss movements".:screwball:
     
  9. shinytickythings

    shinytickythings Registered User

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    #109 shinytickythings, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
    Yeah. I have to agree with you, from the information you are finding, it seems that although they aren't Bulova in name, they certainly seem a direct relation to the Bulova family. Considering the dating code similarities, to me seems like some of the strongest evidence.

    Regarding these cases, on the originals you've presented and on others I've seen, they always seem to be molded and seamless as you say. On some I see what appears to be a black enameled line separating the two segments, but even then they clearly appear to be soldered or seamless. The paint or enameling is pretty easy to see. That one Rex case I have it is a space, AND if you're paying close attention, the corners of the curve are at very precise right angles. On all the other ones I see they are more rounded over and sometimes a little sloppy.
    It's always struck me as a little odd. You don't often find reproductions that are of higher quality than the original.
    I'll try to get some photos done and posted for you. Hopefully tonight. I have a busy day and a wedding to shoot this evening. Otherwise I would do it right now.

    Addionally: I would add that I've always suspected they were knock-offs, but they do appear to show some age. They do not look like modern repros in any way, to my untrained eye at least.
     
  10. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Can't wait to see yours :eek:. On the "Ashford and Jordan" the gap between the two segments seems to collect "gunk" and almost looks like enamel, but isn't.

    "Additionally: I would add that I've always suspected they were knock-offs, but they do appear to show some age. They do not look like modern repros in any way, to my untrained eye at least."

    I wouldn't even consider them as "knock-offs", imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!!! :cool:
     
  11. shinytickythings

    shinytickythings Registered User

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    #111 shinytickythings, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
    Ok! Here we go. The Master case vs. the Rex case side by side.

    ashford_case-2631.jpg ashford_case-2632.jpg

    And for good measure here is a detail from the Rex case up close from a different angle.
    ashford_case-2628.jpg

    Edit: There are quite a number of very subtle differences if you start looking closely with a critical eye. It seems like the Master is closer to the factory Bulova and Gruen case, but the Rex case, to me, seems . . . better.
     
  12. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    WOW, I see what you were saying about the separation and what looks like soldering. Bizarre and absolutely fantastic at the same time!!!! The Master's groove on the lug attachment point closely resembles the Ashford, but seems a little wider and not as crisp.

    Steve, did you pick these up as NOS, or did the come with movements?
     
  13. shinytickythings

    shinytickythings Registered User

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    #113 shinytickythings, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
    I just bought the 4 of of these,( 3 Master and the one Rex case), a few months ago. Supposed ed NOS. No movements.
    Crowns, inserts, and real glass crystals all there.
    At the time, I just loved the design and had no idea, until I saw your post, what if anything they went to or were modeled after.
    So thank you very much for that, Hawk!
     
  14. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    At this point in time I have absolutely no idea. I've not seen any, other than the ones we've already discussed. I guess these would be considered "jobber cases" but I find it odd that some of these haven't shown up on fleabay with odd named jobber movements. Very strange.
     
  15. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Going to need a complete case restoration and crystal, COA etc.
    1929 "Air King" 10B movement, currently running. air king.jpg 1929DecemberTheAmericanWestfieldAirKingTrojanCrop.jpg
     
  16. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    And, his mate. 1929 "Air Queen" also running. She's in much better shape, naturally.:excited: AQ 5.jpg 1929 Excerpt 1.jpg
     
  17. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Probably going to be the last post for awhile, at least until I re-build this damn computer!!!
    But I thought I'd share this to go along with the above "Air Queen" watch. air queen.jpg air queen2.jpg
    I wonder if they had the same type of case for the "Air King":???:
     
  18. shinytickythings

    shinytickythings Registered User

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    That case is AWESOME, Hawk!
    Wow.
     
  19. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    COOL case Hawk!

    Here is what the Air King case would look like, along with my favourite ad for it...



    FileServlet?action=postPicture&pictureUuid=60332ddd-53e1-4bd3-a12a-9389a2a3a560.jpg



    Does that Crafton look familiar? Or the Chilton? Lots of case-copy here!
     
  20. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Great (sarcastic) something else to drive me more "NUTS" than I am already!!!Nutjob
     
  21. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    I picked this rare gem recently, and it'll come in real handy. It's the only complete rebuild kit I've ever seen, and since Westfield used the 10B & 7M movement in the early years, I'll be able to repair some currently non-runners! Yay. WR8.jpg WR.jpg WR7.jpg WR3.jpg
     
  22. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    Great find buddy! Don't break anything now...:excited:
     
  23. oliverb

    oliverb New Member

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    As requested by the resident Westfield expert, my latest Westfield Ladies watch:
    48b76b039b777cfcc25ec5356fd455b8.jpg
     
  24. oliverb

    oliverb New Member

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    This was my first Lady's Westfield:
    e6a8b9d2c7a64cbaee8cde12e57aab8f.jpg
     
  25. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    :coolsign: Expert? by no means. But nice to have them join the family oliverb.
     
  26. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Who would've thunk?:excited: 19WE 2.jpg 19WE 3.jpg 19WE 1.jpg 19WE.jpg
     
  27. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    I purchased this pocket watch because it's the only one I've ever seen, and thought I'd share the details even though it's missing "parts".
    15 jewel adjusted movement.
    19WE with dual date codes for 1926 and 1928.
    Westfield Watch Co Swiss
    Porcelain dial
    50.58mm Fahys No.1 oresilver case
    No stem, crown or hairspring/assembly

    Like I said, only one I've ever seen.
     
  28. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    It's not very often I feel like kicking myself in the butt, but I missed the opportunity to buy a vintage Westfield "Drivers Watch" with hinged lugs and the proper "Providence Watch Case Co" case.
    I hope whoever was the lucky new owner discovers this thread and posts pictures of this nice watch.
     
  29. fatman2442

    fatman2442 New Member

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    i signed up because after searching for hours on the internet, I don't know what I have other than it's a 18k westfield pocket watch my great grandfather owned at one point - which leads me to believe it's perhaps older than most.

    here are some pictures, this really isn't my wheelhouse haha.

    file:///Users/FAT/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/watch/IMG_1728.JPG
    file:///Users/FAT/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/watch/IMG_1731.JPG
    file:///Users/FAT/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2014/watch/IMG_1729.JPG
     
  30. fatman2442

    fatman2442 New Member

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  31. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Verrrrrrrrrrrry nice fatman2442!!! Thank you for sharing your great grandfathers watch. If I'm not mistaken, in your second picture (movement) it appears to be stamped L3, which would date the movement to 1953.
    Can you tell what's written(stamped) on the inside of he case back?
    Also, nice "fob" on the chain, any idea about it:???:
     
  32. fatman2442

    fatman2442 New Member

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    #132 fatman2442, Aug 22, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
    The fob is actually a pin, I think he was a Mason but my grandfather was in the Navy, so it could be either of those things. The date is a little strange to me... perhaps my grandmother was confused. I can post another picture of the inside of the back, it's hard to read but it has a few numbers. the back has 2 openings and both have something written, on opens to just the back case and the other opens to the movement.

    The date doesn't make sense to me though because they were married in the 40s and my mother was born in 1952 ... '53 isn't significant. If it was my great grandfathers, '53 makes zero sense, but it was told to me this was given to your grandfather by his father and now it's yours type of deal right before I got married.

    I doubt I'd part with it, at least in the mean time, but I'd like to know ball-park it's worth. I have a bunch of other pocket watches and watches that are obviously less valuable that were in a box including a Westlox Dax, a meyhar stop watch and a 'federal' pocket watch --- all working btw including the first one I posted. in any case here are a few more images. I'm putting both 'inside cases' because I'm not certain which one is better for understanding more. The one hard to read says 247E6 (I think) or maybe the "E" is an "8" same number appears on the inside along with that infinity-type symbol

    IMG_1732.jpg IMG_1727.jpg IMG_1723.jpg
     
  33. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    In your firs pic it certainly appears to be a 18K solid gold case which is worth it's weight, so to speak.
    In the prior set of pictures, the L3 I referred to is just above the stamp "adjusted". If you can confirm this it would be appreciated.
    Keep in mind that the original movement might have died and your great grandfather might have had the family jeweler replace the movement just to keep the watch running. To him, the case might have had more sentimental value.
    It's hard for me to tell, but the numbers look to me to be 24786 which would be the case serial number. Just above the case serial number is the name of the case manufacturer but I can't read it. If you can read it, let me know.
     
  34. fatman2442

    fatman2442 New Member

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    I'm pretty sure it does say L3

    the name says "cuivre" which I gather just means that the inner coating is copper or brass, but I'm not sure. The only other markings I see is one that looks like a sideways figure 8, or 'infinity' symbol, and the other one above the 18k looks like a pair of headphones/horseshoe. Other than that I was hoping the detailing on the back with that shield might help.
    I think you might be right about it being a replacement movement...but I'm not sure if it's easy to tell if they don't match each other?
     
  35. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    "the name says "cuivre" which I gather just means that the inner coating is copper or brass, but I'm not sure"
    Yes that's exactly what it means, which also confirms that the rest of the case is 18K as marked.

    L3 is definitely 1953, so probably the "correct" size replacement movement to fit the case.

    Your grandmother probably isn't confused about the watch itself, she probably just didn't know that the movement had been replaced. I'm sure she just remembered the case as the important part.
    As far as the movement being replaced, keep in mind that back in the 50's, pocket watches weren't the "hot ticket items" as they were back in the day prior to wrist watches. So my guess would be whoever repaired this watch grabbed the first, reasonably priced movement they could find that was the correct grade needed to fit the case.

    Also keep in mind that someone thought enough about the story behind the watch was worth more than the scrap value. Thankfully
     
  36. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Here's a beauty that I came across recently. Nice enamel case. With sellers permission. $_57.jpg
     
  37. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    #137 bobbee53, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014

    Finally found an ad for your watch buddy!
    It is the "CARLTON", in this 1929 advert. Enjoy.:excited:

    1929westfield2.jpg

    Blow-ups of the ad. Several new names here.

    1929westfield.jpg 1929westfield1.jpg



    AND... the only other American Boy ad I could find. 1930.

    1930westfield.jpg


    And finally, a 1947 ad. For a GOLD watch!!

    1947westfield.jpg
     
  38. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Said it before, I'll say it again.................."You are the research King"

    Thanks bud.

    All the names end in "ton"....funny:excited:
     
  39. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    #139 bobbee53, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014



    Cheers bud.
    If you check it out, many Westfield names end in "ton".
    Just found and posted advert number FIVE for the 1932 Lone Eagle!
    That is five ads in three different publications in three different cities. All are from Gensler Lee company, but they had SIXTEEN outlets across the US.
    Goodnight Irene, as our friend from PA would say.

    I also found some interesting ads for the Gothic "Jar-Proof" watches, one has a 1926 photo of the NY Giants baseball team sitting, all wearing one of these watches.
     
  40. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    Pretty cool "Air Queen" advert, 1930.


    1930 westfieldAQ.jpg
     
  41. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Another name put to a different case design from the other "Air Queen" I own... sweet!!!
    I just looked and I have this version also......... super sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Youarethemanavatar.gif
     
  42. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    Ha ha, you're funny!
    But think about it, why were Bulova putting shock-proof movements in all of their Westfields, yet not in their own?
    I found one dodgy 1929 advert for an unnamed watch which has since been named as the Franklin with "guaranteed shockproof" in the write-up, yet the examples seen just sport the normal cap jewel on the staff.
     
  43. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Bob, can you post that 1929 ad?
     
  44. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    Here you go, August 1929 ad from the NY Statesman.


    IMG_20141110_124424.jpg
     
  45. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    More ads.
    1928

    westy1928may.jpg westy1928jun.jpg westy1928nov..jpg


    1929


    westy1929june.jpg westy1929jun.jpg westy1929oct.jpg


    1930


    westy1930june.jpg
     
  46. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    Another great find Bob, kudos!!!
    Did you happen to notice all the Ladies end with the same "sound" as the "men's" we talked about earlier:???:

    Hilarious
     
  47. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    Yes, I think they picked the names by the "Eenie, Meenie" method there!

    Also found about another dozen Lady Maxim ads, but all the same as ones in databases already, but different shops.
     
  48. Hawk53

    Hawk53 Registered User

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    #148 Hawk53, Nov 11, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    Just added these two to the collection Nutjob 1929 Westfield ads.JPG
    Bob, notice the prominent "shockproof":???:
     
  49. bobbee53

    bobbee53 Banned

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    So, we can see by the ads this was a major push by the company to sell shock-proof watches across the whole Westfield line, from 1929-1930/31.
    This is something new, therefore interesting, about the company. What does surprise me is that Bulova were using the system on Westies, but not on their more expensive Bulova line, at least on the popular "sports" models advertised at the same time as the shock-proof Westfields.If they were using shock protection, I see nothing in adverts saying so, nor do I see any in movement photos either. Please let me know if you ( or anyone) find otherwise...
    Strange, very like Bulova!

    Fantastic adverts Hawk! So sporty.
     
  50. everydaycats

    everydaycats Registered User

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    #150 everydaycats, Nov 12, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
    I found this in my old stuff box. I don't think I have posted pics before, but if so, sorry. Looks like a Westfield CurveX, and I have NO clue about a date or actual model name. The number on the case back is 1817060. Movement number is "6AW":

    IMG_5580.JPG IMG_5581.JPG westfiledc2.jpg
     
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