Welch Parlor Clock

Steven Thornberry

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Well, we don't have a parlor, but we did find a place for it. Actually, I'm looking for the complete name. As often happens with Welch clocks of this era (1880's, I suspect), the labels on the back are mostly gone. In fact, only part of one survives, and that enough to make out part of the name (at least I'm assuming it is only part, there seems to have been space enough for more letters). What I can read is "DEX." Anyone have a clue, or, even better, Tran's Welch book (hoping it is in there). I can't tell if this one was supposed to be ebonized or is just darkened through age or someone's misguided process. I would have thought it a walnut, but on the base what appears to have been possibly the original finish shows through, and that looks a bit like rosewood. It would not photograph to my satisfaction.
 

harold bain

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No match in Tran's Welch book, Steven (hope his new book is out soon).
 

laprade

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Steven, I think you will find that the finish you show, is a wood-grained (decorated) finish. The very parallel looking lines are a prominent feature of this sort of work, when used in such moulded framing.
 

inbeat

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Like most of these "Welch" clocks from this era, I believe your clock is as you first suspected, Walnut...nice clock...
As for the model...I have seen this before but can't remember the model name...might it be "Index":???:??if so, it was likely made for another company like American Ringer...Metropolitan , etc....JMHO....
 

laprade

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inbeat, maybe you should examine more closely, the image, Steven, posted. The bottom section of the moulding, could be walnut, or maybe beech, but the "striped" sections above that, have a strong black and pink (for want of a better word) look, which is a feature of rosewood graining. You will also notice, that towards the top of the image, there is some "ware" which is exposing a lighter base wood. If the clock is "grained", which I am certain it is, it is possible that the overall dark gungy finish, is due to the top protection varnish coat, having deteriorated.
 

Steven Thornberry

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Like most of these "Welch" clocks from this era, I believe your clock is as you first suspected, Walnut...nice clock...
As for the model...I have seen this before but can't remember the model name...might it be "Index":???:??if so, it was likely made for another company like American Ringer...Metropolitan , etc....JMHO....
I've taken as good a picture of the label remnant as I could. It appears that the model name began with "DEX," which would rule out a name such as "Index" (though that would have otherwise been plausible). Perhaps "Dexter" (sounds like a cartoon character!:D:})? No indication that it was a special make, which I would have expected in this, the top of the two labels. The bottom label would, I think, have had operating instructions.
 

Steven Thornberry

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inbeat, maybe you should examine more closely, the image, Steven, posted. The bottom section of the moulding, could be walnut, or maybe beech, but the "striped" sections above that, have a strong black and pink (for want of a better word) look, which is a feature of rosewood graining. You will also notice, that towards the top of the image, there is some "ware" which is exposing a lighter base wood. If the clock is "grained", which I am certain it is, it is possible that the overall dark gungy finish, is due to the top protection varnish coat, having deteriorated.
Thanks for the analysis, Stephen. I'm no wood expert and even close up and personal, I can't be sure. Note a couple of spots on one side, where it seems that someone took it upon himself to restore the original finish and got rather heavy-handed. Apologies for the hasty picture quality.

Harold: Thanks for checking Tran. We do need the new edition, should it ever appear!
 

MDean

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Well, we don't have a parlor, but we did find a place for it. Actually, I'm looking for the complete name. As often happens with Welch clocks of this era (1880's, I suspect), the labels on the back are mostly gone. In fact, only part of one survives, and that enough to make out part of the name (at least I'm assuming it is only part, there seems to have been space enough for more letters). What I can read is "DEX." Anyone have a clue, or, even better, Tran's Welch book (hoping it is in there). I can't tell if this one was supposed to be ebonized or is just darkened through age or someone's misguided process. I would have thought it a walnut, but on the base what appears to have been possibly the original finish shows through, and that looks a bit like rosewood. It would not photograph to my satisfaction.
Steven,
Savage's shows one like yours and calls it the "smuggler" and indicates it to be a walnut case.

I really like the tablet with the 2 wheel Carriage with the nice border touch using driving whips and a horseshoe. The name "smugger" does not make sense to me - maybe someone just made the name up for that sale. Hope you can verify the name.

If you google images with Welch Clock horse carriage it will be on the first page.

Emit

edit:
I just noticed that there are differences in the design of the case but it has the same tablet.
 

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Thyme

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I've taken as good a picture of the label remnant as I could. It appears that the model name began with "DEX," which would rule out a name such as "Index" (though that would have otherwise been plausible). Perhaps "Dexter" (sounds like a cartoon character!:D:})? No indication that it was a special make, which I would have expected in this, the top of the two labels. The bottom label would, I think, have had operating instructions.
Intuition suggests that the strongest possibility for the label would be the word "DEXTER", even though we can't find any model by that name made by Welch.

As for the wood: it was not uncommon for clock cases, furniture and even musical instruments to have been covered with a heavy, dark colored varnish around the turn of the 20th century. It could have been refinished, but even original finishes could be dark as that apparently was the fashion. My conjecture for the rationale of why this was done would have been to even out the contrast between light and dark pieces of wood in the construction of the piece, which might otherwise be too striking with woods such as mahogany. A dark finish hides that contrast, but it also hides the natural beauty of the wood.

Since the wood on the side of the case has been laid bare, that side is a good candidate for attempting a reamalgamation of the finish. OTOH, if all the finish is ugly (coated with unattractive old glop) and not in good condition, it might be a good candidate for a total stripping of all the finish. Then, once it has been removed, you could probably identify the wood.

I have one case like that, where I removed all the finish, which was a wreck, as it was not worth trying to salvage it. I was glad I did strip it, as the case is solid rosewood and it looks better without it. Also the unique smell of rosewood is unmistakably fragrant and enhances the case, even without having any glossy finish on it.
 

Steven Thornberry

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Emit: Thanks for the reference. Actually I had seen the Smuggler on Polite and Savage and at first glance thought it might be a match, but, as you say, the case is not a match. As for names, I've often wondered what the rationale behind them is. Some names seem to fit the clock (e.g., Ingraham's Oriental); others might reflect interest in historical or stylistic themes (e.g., Gilbert's Neccho, which, pace RM, was the name of two Egyptians Pharaohs). But others seem simply random, as my son would say.

Thyme: The case, in general, does not look too bad, and I will probably leave it as it is, simply because it is part of the clock's "received history." I agree about the name but would really like to see another to confirm.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Emit: Thanks for the reference. Actually I had seen the Smuggler on Polite and Savage and at first glance thought it might be a match, but, as you say, the case is not a match. As for names, I've often wondered what the rationale behind them is. Some names seem to fit the clock (e.g., Ingraham's Oriental); others might reflect interest in historical or stylistic themes (e.g., Gilbert's Neccho, which, pace RM, was the name of two Egyptians Pharaohs). But others seem simply random, as my son would say.

Thyme: The case, in general, does not look too bad, and I will probably leave it as it is, simply because it is part of the clock's "received history." I agree about the name but would really like to see another to confirm.
Nice clock. I agree, leave that wonderful old finish alone.

In the latter 1/2 of the 19th century, trotting mares and stallions that raced pulling sulkies were the "Michael Jordons" of their day. They had all sorts of colorful names: Flora Temple, Lady Thorn, Flying Dutchman, Mountain Boy, etc.

A multitude of items were named for them. Everyone cashed in.

Horse weather veins, a popular item and now very much collected, were logical choices.

Print makers cashed in on the fame of these beautiful animals, too. They were often depicted going at full gallop, sometimes shown alone or paired with another stallion or mare as a team pulling a sulky. Currier and Ives produced many beautiful hand colored lithographes of just images.

Clock makers cashed in, too. A famous sulky pulling trotter of the 1870's was named...Smuggler! That's how Emit's clock got its name and equestrian glass.

Another equine superstar of the late 1860's was named...Dexter! Here he is immortalized by Currier and Ives. I have no doubt that's the name of your clock and this is what Welch had in mind.

198.jpg

Welch just used the same design on the glass in another walnut case and changed the model name of the clock to the horse of the day. Those crusty CT Yankees! Why waste $ creating a new glass each time another horse became famous every couple of years??

RM
 

Steven Thornberry

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Well done, RM! Very plausible and persuasive. That suggests a search for the names of the clocks on which this glass was used. Where the theory might fall apart, however, is when we find the same clock (Dexter or Smuggler or whatever) with a different glass. Door glass was, after all, very much a kind of "mix and match," as were pendulums. But I like the suggestion, nonetheless.:clap:

Side Note: Polite and Savage shows two examples of the Smuggler (only one by name) and both have the same glass.
 
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rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Well done, RM! Very plausible and persuasive. That suggests a search for the names of the clocks on which this glass was used. Where the theory might fall apart, however, is when we find the same clock (Dexter or Smuggler or whatever) with a different glass. Door glass was, after all, very much a kind of "mix and match," as were pendulums. But I like the suggestion, nonetheless.:clap:

Side Note: Polite and Savage shows two examples of the Smuggler (only one by name) and both have the same glass.
Thanks.

By the way, it should be weather vane not vein. Missed that.

RM
 

laprade

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Back to serious clocking!

Steven, I have enhanced your pic to show what you wanted us to see. (If you have vista or later, you can enhance your pictures, when you open one fully. There is a menu which includes "corrections". In this section, you can do the same as "raw" and lighten or darken the whole pic, without having to go to another program)
Dex%20Side.JPG
I am 100% certain that the clock was grained, as the rosewood look with its straight lines, is typical of factory graining. The straight line graining is the only one one can use when graining mouldings as tight as your clock's. The initial post in the thread about veneers, shows a good example. The one difference, being the absence of "white jesso" on your clock, which seems to show only a base paint, usually pink when doing rosewood, but no jesso. This could suggest that it was done after the clock was in use for some time, and would account for the lack of jesso. The dark gunge on the surface, is most likely to be a sort of bituminous varnish, which was popular in the 19th c.

As we read in Klokwiz's thread, it is terrible stuff to get shut of. I think your decision to leave it as is, is a good one.
-> posts merged by system <-
I have re-posted the other pic, to save people having to run back to the starting line!
 

Steven Thornberry

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Thanks, Stephen. I was certain that some sort of factory graining had been involved originally, although I do like the current "ebonized" look. Too bad about someone's apparent misguided attempts to restore the original finish in a couple of spots.
 

Thyme

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Back to serious clocking!

Steven, I have enhanced your pic to show what you wanted us to see. (If you have vista or later, you can enhance your pictures, when you open one fully. There is a menu which includes "corrections". In this section, you can do the same as "raw" and lighten or darken the whole pic, without having to go to another program)
View attachment 95236
I am 100% certain that the clock was grained, as the rosewood look with its straight lines, is typical of factory graining. The straight line graining is the only one one can use when graining mouldings as tight as your clock's. The initial post in the thread about veneers, shows a good example. The one difference, being the absence of "white jesso" on your clock, which seems to show only a base paint, usually pink when doing rosewood, but no jesso. This could suggest that it was done after the clock was in use for some time, and would account for the lack of jesso. The dark gunge on the surface, is most likely to be a sort of bituminous varnish, which was popular in the 19th c.

As we read in Klokwiz's thread, it is terrible stuff to get shut of. I think your decision to leave it as is, is a good one.
-> posts merged by system <-
I have re-posted the other pic, to save people having to run back to the starting line!
Several points:

The photo is rather blurred and it is not clear at all what we can see in it.

I don't know that "bituminous varnish" was ever available in America (let alone being popular) and I doubt that it would ever have been ever used by clock manufacturers as an original finish. Considering that, if the finish was over-coated at a later date with a dark varnish there should be no objection to removing a compromised finish that is not original.

I wouldn't be surprised if the case IS rosewood, but without further investigation it is impossible to ascertain.
 

inbeat

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Would someone please give me an example of a Welch Parlor clock in this "parlor" style that is made of rosewood? Or one that is "grained" by the factory. Every one I have ever seen has been made of walnut or black walnut. Would love to see a picture of one. I know that the "Italians" are, but they are of a completely different style and earlier date I believe. Thanks.
 

Thyme

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Would someone please give me an example of a Welch Parlor clock in this "parlor" style that is made of rosewood? Or one that is "grained" by the factory. Every one I have ever seen has been made of walnut or black walnut. Would love to see a picture of one. I know that the "Italians" are, but they are of a completely different style and earlier date I believe. Thanks.
Considering that the Ly book on Welch is quite incomplete, and this clock is not found in it, we cannot rule out different types of woods less commonly found on Welch clocks.

Other examples of woods of models of parlor clocks shown in Ly are:

Brandt - Black walnut and Mahogany

Lehmann - Mahogany

Varena - Antique oak and Cherry

Other woods mentioned as utilized are Ash, Walnut, Black walnut and Oak.

Despite what I said previously, I agree that it is unlikely that the case is made of rosewood; however, it could be made of some wood not mentioned in the Ly book. To cite an example of this, I refer to a New Haven 'Rhine' (another parlor clock) I have, that I said I thought was rosewood. I was mistaken; actually, it is solid mahogany. Yet if you look up that model clock in the Ly book on N.H.'s, it only mentions the Rhine as being made of walnut. The wood on mine is open grained, reddish, and has a distinct fragrant odor - clearly mahogany, not walnut. So the Ly books, essentially being reproductions of sales catalogs, are not the final word on such matters.

I also agree that it is highly unlikely to be faux grained. Parlor or "kitchen" clocks were of solid wood and of a certain variety.
 

inbeat

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The Brandt and Varena are cabinets....I did see the Mahogany...but not Rosewood....I agree that the Ly books are copies of catalogs and don't show all of the examples....but in real life..having gone to many, many regionals, I have never seen a rosewood example...and again, I obviously have not seen them all....I have to agree with Thyme...could be a wood not mentioned....highly unlikely it was faux grained at the factory...
Inbeat.....signed in as James Jones...sorry.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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The Brandt and Varena are cabinets....I did see the Mahogany...but not Rosewood....I agree that the Ly books are copies of catalogs and don't show all of the examples....but in real life..having gone to many, many regionals, I have never seen a rosewood example...and again, I obviously have not seen them all....I have to agree with Thyme...could be a wood not mentioned....highly unlikely it was faux grained at the factory...
Inbeat.....signed in as James Jones...sorry.
Several thoughts before this descends into the usual how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin type debate.

1. Rosewood, mostly as veneer, was used rather frequently for many American factory produced shelf and wall clocks. It was a very popular and prized wood used for furnture in the Victorian era.

2. I have never seen this type of "gingerbread" made out of rosewood. However, my absolute rule of life is to never say never.

3. I have seen and currently own a few New Haven clocks of this period where upon close examination you realize that what appears to be say a lively grained mahogany veneer on the door was plain mahogany made more vivid by simple graining and it's original! I also have a Bradshaw 4 column which is veneered in relatively unfigured mahogany which was then enhanced by simple graining. And what about all those Howard clocks? The take home message: that the use of graining to enhance or make a lesser wood resemble a "better" one was employed by clock makers on both better and lesser clocks. Don't recall Welch doing so, but see #2.

4. I do see the "stripes" (or streaks?) referred to on the surface of the base of the clock. I also see relatively lighter areas on the high points of the base where it appears whatever finish(es) was (were) applied has worn through. This is often as it should be after > than a century of dusting. Overall, all I can say based upon the documentation that is available so far is that the clock has a uniform and consistent old crusty darkened finished with expected "high points" wear and a small area where it was intentionally removed on the side. However, I don't feel that based upon the available photographic evidence one can come to any firm conclusions about the base wood, graining vs streaks in a later coat of varnish (often applied in the belief it renewed the finish), etc.

5. What may help is to look at the underside of the base, inside the case, etc, with a strong light. This could provide the opportunity to look at the wood surfaces where the finish(es) may not have been applied to the same extent and experienced less exposure to the elements thus fewer physical changes like darkening, etc.

RM
 
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Steven Thornberry

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Just for grins, I made some additional pix of the areas RM mentioned. (I had to buy a new bulb for the lamp to do it). See what you all think. Fairly obvious which is which. Some interesting comments so far.

BTW, I'm fairly certain that some previous owners were heavy smokers, and that subsequently the clock was stored in some attic, shed, barn, basement, etc. Certainly I needed full strength ammonia to remove some of the built up crud around the outside edge of the door glass. Less on the inside, of course.
 

Thyme

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Just for grins, I made some additional pix of the areas RM mentioned. (I had to buy a new bulb for the lamp to do it). See what you all think. Fairly obvious which is which. Some interesting comments so far.

BTW, I'm fairly certain that some previous owners were heavy smokers, and that subsequently the clock was stored in some attic, shed, barn, basement, etc. Certainly I needed full strength ammonia to remove some of the built up crud around the outside edge of the door glass. Less on the inside, of course.
Photo three of the case interior seems to show a lumpy texture that is not merely alligatored. Clocks don't come out of the factory with a finish that has dust lumps and blobs in it. If you see that it is from sloppy refinishing, and usually it's from a home applied, over-coating of varnish. IMHO, if the finish is not original and is in distressed condition there is no value in retaining it; and that includes a finish that was spoiled by a well intended owner, even if the deed were done a century ago.
 

Steven Thornberry

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Photo three of the case interior seems to show a lumpy texture that is not merely alligatored. Clocks don't come out of the factory with a finish that has dust lumps and blobs in it. If you see that it is from sloppy refinishing, and usually it's from a home applied, over-coating of varnish. IMHO, if the finish is not original and is in distressed condition there is no value in retaining it; and that includes a finish that was spoiled by a well intended owner, even if the deed were done a century ago.
Thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it, but as I said earlier, I ain't touching the finish.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Steven, your last picture looks very like beech, as does the light coloured bottom mould in the image I re-pposted.
Actually, I'm rather doubtful about the use of beech for an American made object.

It is my understanding that the presence of beech is infact used to distinquish an American made object from one of European origin. For example, many turned chairs made both in America and England are stylistically virtually identifical. A microanalysis demonstrating a N. American wood versus beech is used to establish the origin of an object to this side of the Atlantic...and often a difference in value of powers of ten.

So, it may be another lighter wood, but based upon what I've read and have seen, sort of doubt beech. Ash??

Re: leave or refinish or monkey with an old or original surface(s). This debate flares up from time to time. It seems that there's strong feelings on both sides without a clear resolution or common ground. I guess the prevailing wisdom is to cherish the original or old surface as you can't replace what > 100 years of history created. I've made it clear in the past where I stand. I say leave the ultimate decision to the current custodian of the piece guided by their preference with the understanding that ultimately they will either reap the reward or pay the price.

RM
 

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Well, value, reward, price -- they are more (IMHO) than $$$$$$$. Nice discussion. I've never posted a clock that garnered so many comments. I must be losing my touch.:rolleyes:
 

laprade

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RM, doubt if it is ash, the grain looks too soft. Ash is often mistaken for straight grained oak (no M rays). It has lots of hard looking straight lines, whereas beech does have the wavy open grain as seen in the picture, with soft short dashes, which are the same colour as the waves.

I thought maybe birch, but again it has a hard look to it, with bands that run across the grain.

As to beech in furniture. In the UK, a lot of american office furniture was imported in the shape of "globe wernicke" products. Amongst these were office chairs, commonly called "sheriff's chairs". They had ash curved backs that also swept down to the front of the seat. The legs and turnings, were of beech. Another american import, was the "smoker's bow". This chair also had a curves back and arms, but they were supported entirely by turnings, and didn't go down to the seat front. These smoker's bows, were made of beech, with elm seats. Also, most of the bentwood products were of beech.
-> posts merged by system <-
I thought I'd google sheriff's chairs, and found that it is the real name. The pic is from a charity auction in Texas (closed). They describe the chair incorrectly, as "oak". Oak cant be bent like that, it is always ash that is used. As I said, ash is often mistaken for oak! It does look as if this example might be completely ash. (I used to have a collection of them for the dining room, so I know about the presence of beech). What I forgot to mention, was that the GW company used to make bookcases with up and over opening shelf doors, and some of these were made of beech or mahogany.
 

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tom427cid

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Hi all,
Just to keep the discussion from stagnating----The pic of the bottom underside almost looked like Poplar.That said,it was not uncommon for manufacturers to use a secondary wood for the case sides.And as was stated earlier it was grained to look like the more expensive woods used in the front,ie. the door and base mldg,and crest.Also more often than not with "gingerbreads" the back will be poplar.It seems that Poplar gained acceptance around 1860-1870 and particularly with backs it is unusual to see a pine back in a clock of the later period.
Hope this helps.
tom
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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RM, doubt if it is ash, the grain looks too soft. Ash is often mistaken for straight grained oak (no M rays). It has lots of hard looking straight lines, whereas beech does have the wavy open grain as seen in the picture, with soft short dashes, which are the same colour as the waves.

I thought maybe birch, but again it has a hard look to it, with bands that run across the grain.

As to beech in furniture. In the UK, a lot of american office furniture was imported in the shape of "globe wernicke" products. Amongst these were office chairs, commonly called "sheriff's chairs". They had ash curved backs that also swept down to the front of the seat. The legs and turnings, were of beech. Another american import, was the "smoker's bow". This chair also had a curves back and arms, but they were supported entirely by turnings, and didn't go down to the seat front. These smoker's bows, were made of beech, with elm seats. Also, most of the bentwood products were of beech.
-> posts merged by system <-
I thought I'd google sheriff's chairs, and found that it is the real name. The pic is from a charity auction in Texas (closed). They describe the chair incorrectly, as "oak". Oak cant be bent like that, it is always ash that is used. As I said, ash is often mistaken for oak! It does look as if this example might be completely ash. (I used to have a collection of them for the dining room, so I know about the presence of beech). What I forgot to mention, was that the GW company used to make bookcases with up and over opening shelf doors, and some of these were made of beech or mahogany.
H'mmm...sorry, but not sure I agree with you on a few things.

I have not heard the term "sheriff's chair" used before. Sounds like a cutesy dealer's term.

My recollection of the use of the term "smoker's bow," at least in this country, was applied to a low back style "windsor", infact imported to the US from the UK (not vice versa) where these were made in large numbers over a rather long period of time. They were the utilitarian chairs found everywheres from pubs to municipal offices to waiting rooms.

http://img.carters.com.au/63761.jpg

Consistent with their European origin, these may be made of beech! I owned a nice example in I believe elm many years ago similar to the one above. Wonderful surface and color. Quite comfortable.

Maybe beech was used in American furniture? But my recollection is that hickory, which is amenable to steaming and bending, was used for this purpose in American chairs including Windsors and the like.

Will have to pull out my books about windsors and other furniture (if I can find them).

RM
 

laprade

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RM, that is a smokers bow, but not a "windsor". The term "windsor" very often, gets in the wrong context. The seat will be of elm, and the legs would normally be beech. The american "bows" office furniture, were a different design, and had the metal label under the seat. Quite a lot of them were swivel and tilt. Unfortunately, I don't have any now, but I did get my irish neighbour to check out my "sheriff's" chairs. He is a joiner, and verified that the base units, legs and stretchers, are of beech. One is actually broken: a guest managed to fall over in it, and the base snapped off at two of the leg tops!

Also some of the "sheriffs" were swivel and tilt.

I do think that Stevens clock has some beech in it. (keeping on topic: Steven!)
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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RM, that is a smokers bow, but not a "windsor". The term "windsor" very often, gets in the wrong context. The seat will be of elm, and the legs would normally be beech. The american "bows" office furniture, were a different design, and had the metal label under the seat. Quite a lot of them were swivel and tilt. Unfortunately, I don't have any now, but I did get my irish neighbour to check out my "sheriff's" chairs. He is a joiner, and verified that the base units, legs and stretchers, are of beech. One is actually broken: a guest managed to fall over in it, and the base snapped off at two of the leg tops!

Also some of the "sheriffs" were swivel and tilt.

I do think that Stevens clock has some beech in it. (keeping on topic: Steven!)
Not sure I follow you?

Let me see if I can simplify what I said. 1. "Smoker's bow" is a term used here to refer to a UK made chair. I have never heard that term applied to an American product. 2. A similar style of chair made in American is often referred to as a "low back" windsor. 3. the term "sheriff's chair" must be a colloquialism used in Europe. Not here, to my knowledge. 4. whatever, if it's beech doubt American, but I could be wrong.

Once again I disagree. I have seen the "smoker's bow" included in discussions of Windsors reflecting that they are a category of turned chair with plank seat as opposed to a joined chair.

RM
 

Steven Thornberry

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An interesting furniture discussion here, only horological along the very edge of the periphery, however. I presume that the issue of the clock is over and done?
 

harold bain

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RM, you and lap could obviously argue about beech use in perpetuity without any conclusive evidence that THIS clock might be made of beech. I've seen no evidence that any American clock factory ever used beech for case construction, but, if the lumberman showed up with nothing but beech, and the factory was out of wood, I have a feeling they would have grabbed his load, and made the most of it.
But, lacking any firm evidence of this, we are just counting fairies.
Maybe we need a furniture forum, perhaps lap could get his favorite furniture company, Ikea, to sponsor it:rolleyes::Party::D
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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RM, you and lap could obviously argue about beech use in perpetuity without any conclusive evidence that THIS clock might be made of beech. I've seen no evidence that any American clock factory ever used beech for case construction, but, if the lumberman showed up with nothing but beech, and the factory was out of wood, I have a feeling they would have grabbed his load, and made the most of it.
But, lacking any firm evidence of this, we are just counting fairies.
Maybe we need a furniture forum, perhaps lap could get his favorite furniture company, Ikea, to sponsor it:rolleyes::Party::D
Like I said, 6 not 7 fairies.

RM
 

Steven Thornberry

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Now we are treading far too close to insensitivity. Let's call a halt.:mad:
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Hi all,
Just to keep the discussion from stagnating----The pic of the bottom underside almost looked like Poplar.That said,it was not uncommon for manufacturers to use a secondary wood for the case sides.And as was stated earlier it was grained to look like the more expensive woods used in the front,ie. the door and base mldg,and crest.Also more often than not with "gingerbreads" the back will be poplar.It seems that Poplar gained acceptance around 1860-1870 and particularly with backs it is unusual to see a pine back in a clock of the later period.
Hope this helps.
tom
An interesting suggestion. Used with frequency in 19th century America (I tend to think PA with poplar, but recall used other areas as well) and yes, was grained or painted.

RM
 

Steven Thornberry

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Just FWIW, I have seen the twin brother of this clock, with label intact, and the name is, indeed, Dexter.
 

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