Welch on strike

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Scottie-TX, Apr 5, 2014.

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  1. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Oh don't remind me. I know better'n you I got no bidness inside an amerikum spranger clanger. But I am. I am and I need tootlidge. (sp?
    ) Worked fine before I fixt it - cleaned and reassembled. Dunno where to start. It strikes all over the place and don't know when or how to stop. How does half hour work? It's not a passing strike. There's no half hour or dubl-wide slot on countwhee.
    Yeah; It's a Welch #1 small schoolhouse clock
    H A L L P P ! ! ! l
     

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  2. leeinv66

    leeinv66 Moderator
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    Is this tutorial of Bangster"s what you are after? CLick Here. I know how they work in my hand, but I suck at explaining it:(
     
  3. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It would seem this movement was not designed to have a half-hour strike. At least, from what you say and what the pictures tell.
     
  4. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    Doos ya member fo sho wether it struked tha haf our befo ya fixd it?
     
  5. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    #5 Scottie-TX, Apr 5, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
    Great point STEVE; RB. I just assumed it struck halves cuz most do. Probly doesn't. Whew. One down, one to go.
    Thanks PEE-TAH! Perzackly whut I needed. Mine doesn't have a lock lever or warning wheel. Seems lock is accomplished by lever on the fly.
    Currently is neither locking nor warning.
     

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  6. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    There must be a pin missing someplace. It looks like the fly
    was made by the Mario Bros. ( Mushrooms ).
    I just did one that had two pins on the warning wheel.
    Maybe they took one of yours.
    Would love to see pictures when you open it.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  7. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    Hey Scottie, that little bent wire on the fan is for warning and the train locks out on the slot in the maintenance cam. As the j-hook lifts it moves the warning lever up into the path of that little bent wire.Then as the j-hook raises more it starts lifting the maintenance lever up and out of the cam slot,the train starts to run but the warning lever holds the fan until the j-hook drops. The train runs until the count lever drops into the next slot in the count wheel and the maintenance lever drops into the cam slot and locks the train. This is an old design used up until the turn of last century.
    I see monkeys have had a time playing with their pliers and bending all the levers,straighten all that mess out and get it all timed right and it should work. One thing to check for is a pocket in the cam slot created by the maintenance lever where it locks,may need a little filing to square up that edge. I had one recently that was deemed irreparable because that pocket was worn so deep it would hang the lever and stall the time train.
    You did fix that fan pivot didn't you?
     
  8. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Scottie, you got one there that someone's had a very uninformed go at. The levers have been bent and are not in position to function correctly. You're going to have to school yourself on the count wheel strike and how it SHOULD work, then re-position those levers to make it happen. One example is your .....05.jpg pic. The lift lever is nowhere near where it needs to be to establish warning.
     
  9. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Among projects and an ailing pooter, believe I have digested this fully now with your help. I believe JAY is closest altho to me, levers do not appear mangled or misbent;
    Just gotta figger where to move fan. I believe moving fan may turn the trick -- such that it is ready to arrest warning lever just befor locking in slot. May just experiment at first.
    THANKS!
     
  10. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    The fan works like any other warning wheel. When the train is locked the bent wire on the fan should be 180deg. from the warning lever.
     
  11. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    Is there anything that is suppose to keep the fan fixed in the proper position on the arbor, as most are made to slip when the train stops.
     
  12. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    Randy, On those old clocks they had a piece of wire that laid in a groove in the arbor opposite the fan and went through two holes in the fan then bent over like a staple. If you look at his tin can fan you'll see it coming through the tin and the ends bent over. That is the original configuration,the mushroom can is another story.
    Scottie,if that tin can fan looks like a REAL old repair I would be tempted to leave it as history.
     
  13. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Oh I have no intent of replacing the fan. Originally had gold paint splashed on it, I like it as is.
    JAY, in the picture the train is locked and the lever apx. parallel to the warning lever. Reckon it should be rotated 180 degs. from current. Then it would be parallel and lagging.
     
  14. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    This pic
    attachment.jpg
    or this pic
    attachment.jpg
    It should be as pic#2 but if it needs more warning then give it some.
     
  15. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    I'll just start by experimenting trial 'n err. That'll tell me which way to go an' who knows; Mebbe I'll get lucky early.
     
  16. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    JAY I moved the fan 180 degs anti clockwise with it's driving wheel locked with tape. Initial tests are encouraging as it stops every time. I'll now move back to test and observe over a long period of time. THANKS!
     

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  17. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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  18. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Nope; No see-gar. No warning. Warning would commence at fifteen prior but instead, at warning begins striking and strikes until all arms drop fully and normally striking would begin and end properly.
     
  19. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    attachment.jpg That lever is not supposed to be under the maintenance lever like it is in this photo. That's the warning lever and should be over the top and up close to the warning pin on the fan. I should move up into the path of the warning pin as the j-hook starts to lift then drop down and clear it to release the train.
    I 'll have to dig out one of my old OG movements and take some pics.
     
  20. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    This is how it should look when the train is locked;
    scotties 001 (Large).jpg scotties 004 (Large).jpg scotties 003 (Large).jpg scotties 013 (Large).jpg

    This is in warning;
    scotties 007 (Large).jpg scotties 006 (Large).jpg scotties 005 (Large).jpg scotties 008 (Large).jpg scotties 009 (Large).jpg

    This is the train unlocked and running;
    scotties 014 (Large).jpg scotties 011 (Large).jpg scotties 010 (Large).jpg

    This movement is a little different than yours but works the exact same way.
     
  21. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    I didn't realize there was a warning pin made onto the fly arbor until these pics, even though Scotties pics show the same, I was mistaking it for the end of the warning lever. Now it makes sense. I was thinking the warnng lever was simply blocking the fly, and was wondering what was keeping the fly in position on the arbor.
     
  22. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    So Scotties current issue seems to be that the warning stop lever is not encountering the wire on the fly. Fix that, and you may have it, Scottie. It should rise with the J hook, and be in the way when the train is released, holding it there until the J hook drops.
     
  23. James Weaver

    James Weaver Registered User

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    I have an Ansonia that has the same set up on the strike. When I got it, it would not stop striking. Just a little timing of the gears and it works properly. Shutterbug gave you the right answer.
     
  24. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    Do I hear an echo?
     
  25. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Repetition for emphasis :D
     
  26. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    #26 Scottie-TX, Apr 9, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
    JAY, thank you VERY much for all the work you put into your pictorial. If we lived closer I'd treatcha to a beverage of your preference. Just about ready to break the seal on the drum of gatorade. Lifted lever clear of other, checked clearances and VOILA! WARNING. . . . . . . warning and proper stop. I've got about, I figger, about forty five degrees of fan travel to warning. A little scant perhaps but believe it will be reliable.
    Thanks again JAY, etalli.
     
  27. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    In the infamous words of John Hannibal Smith,"I love it when a plan comes together".
    At one time that would be Jim Beam,Brugal Rum or a dry Martini,these days Gatorade and Coca-Cola do just fine.
    You know me I'm not that long winded so I let the camera do the talkin'
    Glad you got it figured out man!
     
  28. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    JAY, I figgered out nuthin'; nada.
    YOU figgered it ALL out. No mangled levers. No pivot problems; Nothing misbent, etc. Simply misplacement of two levers and the fly itself.
    I brought it to the board planning not to think at all and I didn't. As any newbie who knows little or nothing I plunked it totally in your collective laps and YOU figgered it all out. Alls I did was follow your counsel. I'd call that EXCELLENT counsel. Well analyzed; clearly stated and spot on!
    Thanks again guys! GREAT job of fixin' my Welch klanger.
    Ka-Lik, Splash. mmmmmm. Tastes good
     
  29. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    So the lever arbors had been swapped? I wondered about that with the warning lever being that low in the movement.
    Those old big wheel movements are a pleasure to work on,especially the weight driven clocks.
     
  30. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Not certain what you ask. The arbors were in their proper holes. Two arms simply needed transposed. I simply lifted one over the other and dropped it .
    After twelve hours, working perfectlly. Striking all hours; stopping all hours properly
     
  31. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    That's what I was wondering,if the arbors were in their proper holes. When monkeys use tools you never know what they'll do.
    Did you have to take it back apart or were you able to uncross them without doing so.
     
  32. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Naw; I'm lazy. Just a light pull - up 'n over. Done.
     

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