Welch clock

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by T.W.P, Jan 5, 2011.

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  1. T.W.P

    T.W.P Registered User

    Jan 10, 2008
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    HI
    Thought I would post a photo of this nice original Welch clock.
    Made in 1885 and named ROSE' It retains the original finish, pendulum and glass glazed in the frame. Still remains in the same family after 126 years. Runs real good!
    Tom 80516.jpg
     
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  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Nice Clock, Tom.

    Question: Would you mind if we use this thread as a sort of catapult to showcase Welch clocks? We would invite all interested parties to add theirs to yours, and I would add it to the sticky at the top of the forum for ease of reference.
     
  3. T.W.P

    T.W.P Registered User

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    Awesome Steve! Go for it!
    Welch clocks are beautiful clocks that dont get much atttention.....
    unless your a Patti.
    Tom
     
  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #4 Steven Thornberry, Jan 5, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
    Actually, Tom,. I'm a Steven and never even knew a Patti.:D But I'm happy to add this Eclipse Regulator, made for the American Wringer Company, probably in the 1890's. To my knowledge, all original.
    Eclipse Regulator 2.jpg Eclipse Regulator Movement 1.JPG Eclipse Regulator Label.JPG
     
  5. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #5 Steven Thornberry, Jan 5, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
    I will also add the Parisian. Mine has a nice EN pendulum, the insert of which seems to be "plastic" of some sort. The strike on this clock is the slowest I have ever heard (can undoubtedly be speeded up) and quite deep and resonant. 1880's, I would say.
    Parisian.jpg Parisian Movement 002.jpg Parisian label.jpg Parisian pendulum.jpg
     
  6. Allow me to post what I believe to be a Welch Parisian style shelf clock.

    https://mb.nawcc.org/album/thumbs/2/6705de177dcb80eec5dd6397dcd6e2a0_2064.jpg?dl=1294497510

    There are no labels or movement identification, though the movement is a Welch. I have not found this model shown in any of Tran’s guides. I did find a photo of the same case in a general illustrated clock book. It identified it as a Welch, but no detailed information was listed.

    Any additional information is appreciated.
     
  7. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    Your clock was most likely produced by George A Jones or H.J. Davies. Davies took over Jones operation and then went to work for Ansonia. The flat one piece dial sugest Jones, is it mounted with ears on the sides of the dial pan with two holes in each ear, usually only one hole has a screw in it to secure the dial. The pendulum is the one found with Welch movements. Jones clocks had a round bob similar to Vienna regulators but instead of a porcelain R-A insert they had a paper S-F insert with an arrow pointing up or down. Both companies used Welch movements. Jones pendulum attached. 30813.jpg
     
  8. Richard T.

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    Greetings All,

    Below: Welch "Golden Knights" walnut parlor clock

    "Eureka" hanging "kitchen" clock.

    Best,

    Richard T. 63174.jpg 63175.jpg 63176.jpg 80886.jpg 80887.jpg
     
  9. owen.or

    owen.or Registered User
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    Here are two of mine. The wall clock is a "Meyerbeer". The shelf clock is a "Cary, V.P.", one of the Patti clocks. This particular Cary is actually a product of Welch, Spring and Company. David "owen.or" 80931.jpg 80932.jpg
     
  10. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #10 Steven Thornberry, Jan 9, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
    [quote:^wen.or;521482]Here are two of mine. The wall clock is a "Meyerbeer". The shelf clock is a "Cary, V.P.", one of the Patti clocks. This particular Cary is actually a product of Welch, Spring and Company. David "owen.or"[/quote]

    Excellent clocks, David. I will, thus, only hesitantly add a couple much more modest examples: on the left, the Daisy, a thirty hour with Welch's chandelier pendulum; and the Dolaro, an eight-day with a sandwich pendulum.
    Daisy.JPG Daisy Movement.JPG Daisy Pendulum.JPG Dolaro.JPG Dolaro Mvmt..JPG Dolaro Pendulum.jpg
     
  11. DennyI

    DennyI Registered User
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    Patti V.P. (aka Patti No. 1) 80963.jpg
     
  12. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    Welch gingerbread "Assortment F" no.31, Hanging Walnut Parlor w/Eclispe pendulum, mini OG 81132.jpg 81133.jpg 81134.jpg
     
  13. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    This was a good idea to start a Welch thread. I think it dovetails nicely with the recently started J.C. Brown/Forestville thread.

    I have 2 to post.

    The first I guess could be considered a novelty clock?

    The case is nickel plated cast brass with essentially a canister mounted on the rear containing the movement. The "lid" or back of the clock is friction fit. On the inner surface there is a paper label identifying the model as "La Reine". This clock also came in a gilt finish.

    The dial is paper on metal.

    The signed (with the intertwined initials of the maker) movement is a steel spring driven 8 day time only pendulum movement with some interesting features. Note the nickel plating, it is a double wind movement, the between the plates "tic-tac" escapement, and the shape of the escape wheel teeth.

    The other Welch (well, actually Welch, Spring and Co) is a cousin to one posted earlier on this thread. It is the Patty No. 2, VP (for visible pendulum). The rosewood case of the Patty No. 2, VP is identical to the Patty VP down to the flocked paper covered inner backboard except it is about 1/2 the size. Thus, it is also known in the collector's vernacular as the "Baby Patty." By the way, the clock is named after a famous opera singer of the time, Adelina Patty.

    The Patty No. 2, VP came as an eight day clock and an eight day double wind time piece. This example is the latter. The cast brass pendulum bob bearing the conjoined initials of the maker is correct as opposed to the more typical "Patty" pendulum. The door glass in my timepiece, though original, has lost it's gilt decorated border.

    See the wonderful NAWCC Bulletin Supplement #12 The Welch, Spring and Company by Owen and Jo Burt. Here's a link if you are a NAWCC member:

    http://www.nawcc.org/index.php/nawcc-bulletin/past-issues-/564?task=view

    See pages 71-81 and the figures therein for more about the "Baby Patty". Note the pictures of the time piece movement (I didn't wish to take mine apart), figures 86-9 and the similarities to the one in the La Reine.

    RM 81139.jpg 81140.jpg 81141.jpg 81142.jpg 81143.jpg 81144.jpg
     
  14. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Thanks, Rm. Nice clocks. BTW, the spelling is "Patti," for the record.:D Didn't you at one time have a Welch Grecian (or Rose Grecian)? I seem to remember an earlier posting with same.
     
  15. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Oops. My inability to spell strikes again. Thanks for pointing out the correct spelling.

    Thanks for your kind comments.

    Yes, I own a Welch version of the Ingraham Grecian they called the Roman. It's posted on the Ingraham thread on this page:

    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=56510&page=4

    I've also reposted the pics below.

    RM 47684.jpg 81152.jpg 81153.jpg 47686.jpg
     
  16. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Ah, yes, the Roman. I was misremembering. The reason I called it what I did is that vol. I of Roy Ehrhardt's Identification and Price Guide shows a Rose Grecian, which I took to be a Welch, but it may in fact be Ingraham or some other Ingraham knock-off. Ehrhardt's vols. can at times be confusing.:bang:
     
  17. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Actually, I believe you're correct in that Welch used both names, Grecian and Roman, for this style of clock.

    I found a picture of the La Reine in a reprint of the Welch 1880 catalog.

    RM 81160.jpg
     
  18. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Here is my 1892? Welch 8 day, brass movement, shelf clock. 81163.jpg 81164.jpg 81165.jpg 81166.jpg 81167.jpg
     
  19. A few Welch clocks from my collection

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=328&pictureid=2090
    Not too often seen Welch Mfg. Co. Column Shelf, 8-day, spring driven, T/S.

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=328&pictureid=2089
    C. 1880's, Welch, Spring and Co., "Round Top Regulator", 8-day spring driven, wall T/S.

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=328&pictureid=2092
    C.1880, E.N. Welch Mfg. Co., "Round Corner Octagon Lever", 30-hour timepiece.

    https://mb.nawcc.org/picture.php?albumid=328&pictureid=2091
    C.1880, Welch, Spring and Co., Conn., "Empress" , 8-day, time and strike shelf clock.
     
  20. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    My favorite Welch clock is this iron front by Nicholas Muller, casting #61, the "Dolphin". It was sold by the American Clock Company. Has a Welch club tooth movement. Other companies, such as Ansonia, also used the casting
    attachment.jpg attachment.jpg
     
  21. Bill Johnson

    Bill Johnson Registered User

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    I have three Welch clocks. I don't know much about any of them except the one in the first picture, a time only, 30 hour movement, is one of my favorite clocks. The second picture, to my surprise when I got it home, had been fitted with a Waterbury movement. Bill Johnson 68995.jpg 81225.jpg 81226.jpg
     
  22. Bill Johnson

    Bill Johnson Registered User

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    Oops! The clock on the left is a Waterbury. Mistakes like that happen more often when you are on the north side of 70! Bill Johnson
     
  23. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    That don't make it a bad clock. And, hey, a "W" is a "W." (It happens on the south side of 70 also, I find all too often.:D)
     
  24. nicksey

    nicksey Registered User

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    Hello,

    I thought I would ask for some knowledgable opinions of some of my clocks starting with this E N Welch Ogee 30 hour. A humble not too exciting clock but I kind of like it but a few questions spring to mind

    • Has it been restored or even over restored, as the dial although having a few small marks does seem very bright and clean?
    • Would this type of glass be typical of this model rather than say a reverse painted glass?
    • What would you say its age would be?
    Thanks in advance for any info and opinions.

    p.s. Hopefully this is the right place to post this 91904.jpg 91905.jpg 91906.jpg
     
  25. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    This is the right place. Welcome. The dial on your Ogee does not look original, but appears to be a modern day replacement. At least, that's my opinion. The bottom glass may be original, I suppose. Such "frosted" glasses do appear on Ogees, though not nearly so common as other types of design. A look at how it is currently put on may give a clue, whether or not it seems that an original glass was removed and another substituted in its place. All in all, it is a nice looking clock. Enjoy.
     
  26. nicksey

    nicksey Registered User

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    Thanks for that Steven.

    I thought it was likely to be a replacement dial but the glass looks quite old but I have little experience of this. Does the fitting of the glass look like a replacement to you? (see attached). 91911.jpg
     
  27. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    From what I can see, it looks ok. If all wood strips holding in the glass are in good shape and run essentially the length of the opening, I would not doubt it, unless personal inspection led me to think otherwise. In color, the piece of strip I can see does also go well with the inside of the door. I browsed Welch OG's on antiqueclockspriceguide.com and found 2-3 with similar glass.
     
  28. disabilityguy

    disabilityguy New Member

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    This clock came from my late mother-in-law’s house. My wife grew up listening to the sound of it and is now pleased to hear it again. It was not running when we got it but a friend overhauled it at a discount ($65) and now it keeps perfect time. I did one minor repair myself when I adjusted one of the wires that comes from the shaft that is used to activate the strike train. This put the chimes back in synch.
    It is an EN Welch/Sessions; the movement View attachment 4465 has Welch on it and the case matches one from the clockprof.com which he says is a Sessions. I know the takeover results in a lot of “hybrids” as we have here.
    As with any quality workmanship, I am pleased to admire this and now find old clocks quite fascinating. It is no surprise that I have encountered more than one battery operated electric wall clock at the office which fails to bring the second hand up past the 9 position because the motor is too weak. Once I pulled the second hand out they run fine. Compare that to a clock from app. 1903 with all original components that is still going and may outlast me and you.
    As you can see, the alarm mechanism is not in the case though I would not use it.
    Appreciate your site and will look back often to read other stories.
     
  29. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    D-guy:

    Your clock looks like the Sessions Assortment New "A" No. 3 (that's a mouthful), shown in Tran Duy Ly's Sessions book from the 1906 catalogue. Could also have been made a bit earlier. Tran's catalogue picture, however, shows completely different lower side pieces, and I have to wonder, in passing, whether the ones on your clock are original to it. They match up well in color with the rest of the clock, however, so it might just be a case of slight stylistic changes from year to year. I also note that the catalogue picture has some carving on the base that does not appear on yours.
     
  30. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Re: your ? about the originality of the side pieces.

    Note how the crest and upper side pieces have pressed decoration, the lower ones don't. The color, in the pic, might match but look at the wood wood grain of crest and upper side pieces versus the lower side pieces. It's different from that of the lower suggesting a different wood. Looks like similar wood was used for the pieced repair on the projecting bit of the crest on the viewer's right. Makes me wonder if original or all an old repair?

    RM
     
  31. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    RM, I did notice and that is what made me wonder. I note also that the catalogue picture shows pressed decoration on the lower side pieces. But I was willing to withhold final judgment until I heard back disabilityguy, who might have some information on the history and can see it first-hand. I often take that tack, since pictures can be deceptive at times. Your statements, however, are fairly persuasive, I must admit. Thanks!
     
  32. tomogletree

    tomogletree Registered User

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    I have an E.N. Welch that has been in the Family and has wound up residing with mine for now. Too bad the name on the back is in rough shape, perhaps some wise ones here can help me out. It strikes every hour and some where along the way it will skip the correct hour gong. It also has a daily alarm that will scare the hell out of you. I also suspect that the pendulum is not correct. Help me out if you can.

    Thanks in advance:) 98773.jpg 98774.jpg 98775.jpg 98776.jpg 98777.jpg
     
  33. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    Your clock is the "DAHLIA" model and shown in Tran Duy Ly's Welch book as circa 1889. Your pendulum is correct, it is shown in the same book and states comes in nickel with white paper dial and bronze with black papaer dial.
     
  34. tomogletree

    tomogletree Registered User

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    WOW thanks so very much! I do appreciate the effort every one puts in to helping out new folks %^)
     
  35. David B Pendley

    David B Pendley Registered User
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    Hi, Just trying to put a name with this case. The movement is an E. N Welch clubtooth escapement t & s. Case has rounded back. Appears to be walnut. I couldn't find anything close in my Welch books. Thanks. 128598.jpg 128599.jpg
     
  36. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I'm thinking rather that the case is by Henry J. Davies, who is known to have used Welch movements. Davies took over the George Jones operation in 1873 and was himself bought out by Ansonia in December 1877, after which he became General Manager of the (second) Ansonia Clock Co. The clock is actually shown in Tran's Ansonia book as the Connecticut from the 1874 catalogue. 1874 places it as a model offered by the Ansonia Brass and Copper Co., who were known to have offered some of Davies models. Whether ABC themselves used Welch movements, I am not sure.

    I recently posted this thread about an Ansonia clock that may well be a Jones design.
     
  37. John P

    John P Registered User
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    I have this simple shelf clock from E N Welch. With club foot escapement. 8 day with a cast iron bell.
    The label has blackened with age and oil but somewhat readable behind the movement.

    I dont know what the model name might be or year of production. Perhaps this forum will be helpful in the identification.
    If you have info just chime in.

    Thanks John


    128640.jpg 128641.jpg
     
  38. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    #38 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, May 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2018
    The clock you post has a typical Chauncey Jerome Union case. All types of movements, including fusee ones, were placed in them. See attached pics. For more about the clock pictured below go to https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?59464-Post-your-favorite-American-fusee-clock/page3 and scroll down.

    I guess I'm suspicious about a later movement like the one you describe being in the case. Would examine carefully for evidence of swapped movements, dial, etc.

    RM 57867.jpg 57870.jpg 57869.jpg
     
  39. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    And, John, could you describe what can be made out on the label, as well?
     
  40. John P

    John P Registered User
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    Steven you are right and I must have had a senior moment, so here is my Welch clock.

    John

    128790.jpg 128791.jpg 128792.jpg
     
  41. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    A bit more flea market flotsam and jetsam.

    Found this today on the field. Don't usually bother with gingerbreads, but this was another one that was just so unmolested. Some honest wear on the dial and one grommet missing, but otherwise I thought so "right", great old finish, great full labels on the back. Pretty big at about 23 3/4 inches tall.

    What also appeals to me is that it strikes on the hour and 1/2 hour, has a detached alarm and I thought an interesting original tablet. I believe it depicts Columbia on a pedestal holding aloft a victory wreath.

    Also, with my rather foolish fuzzy math, clocks like this are now sometimes relatively inexpensive around here (don't know what it's like elsewhere in the US) especially compared to what these "oaks" were bringing up to 5-10 years ago when golden oak would still cause a yuppie feeding frenzy. All this stuff has come way down. The danger is that though each outlay for a clock like this seems reasonable, over time the aggregate amounts to real money, they occupy real estate, and where do you go with it when it comes time to make some space.

    Ah! What the heck. It's nice to find an honest real antique American clock and have it tick away at home for a spell. And what a wonderful day to be out early in the AM when it's still cool, bright sunshine, walking around a farm field, lots of folks in the trade whom I know and can stop and schmooze with, meet some new folks and hopefully find a treasure or 2. All part of the fun. Sure as heck beats ebay.

    RM 129003.jpg 129004.jpg 129005.jpg
     
  42. inbeat

    inbeat Registered User
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    Two finds from this weekend. First, the Gerster, another of the Patti clocks and the Patti #1 (VP). 143562.jpg 143273.jpg
     
  43. SeaClocks

    SeaClocks Newbie

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    I have been looking all over for an example of this clock! I have several questions I was hoping you could help with with:
    ( This clock belongs to a friend of a friend, and I am considering taking of their hands as they no longer want it)
    -One worry I have is whether the glass and pendulum are original for this model, it appears the example you've shown may be different
    -On the back, the label appears to reference "Fowler MFG Co (Limited) " and i cant find any info on this so far.
    -Is this actually a Welch clock, and if so walnut?

    Thanks ahead, any info you could give is greatly appreciated!
    217650.jpg 217652.jpg 217651.jpg
     
  44. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #44 Steven Thornberry, Oct 28, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
    I wouldn't worry about the difference in the glass and pendulum. Different styles are often found on the same model. If the glass shows no obvious signs of replacement, I would accept it as original. So, far as I can tell from your pictures, compared to catalogue illustrations, both glass and pendulum seem to be Welch products.

    The clock itself appears in Tran Duy Ly's book on Welch clocks (2d ed.). It is referred to as Unknown No. 37, indicating that it was not found in the trade catalogues or other sources. Tran's picture shows the same glass found on Richard T.'s model earlier in this thread. The clock in Tran also shows that it was made for the same Fowler MFG. Co. (Limited). This indicates that it was a special make for Fowler and as such would probably not appear in the trade catalogues of Welch's regular production models. Special makes are not at all uncommon, but they are always a bit more interesting (to me) as a part of the manufacturer's history.

    Almost forgot - it is a walnut clock. This style was popular in the 1880's and was still found a bit in the 1890's. Tran dates the Unknown No. 37 to ca. 1886. Spittlers and Bailey's Clockmakers & Watchmakers of America has a brief mention of Fowler Mfg. Co. and dates it to ca. 1890's. The entry in Soittlers and Bailey is curious in that it seems to imply that a partially legible "Mfg." is the first name of Fowler.
     
  45. blueloon

    blueloon Registered User

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    Here's my one and only E.N. Welch that I just picked up at a garage sale (yes, there's still snow on the ground, but they're starting). I didn't see this one anywhere on the MB. It's a "Marie Tempest".

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    It needs a good cleaning and I noticed that at least one of the levers for the strike is bent. The case bottom has a major crack across it and I will see if I can pull it apart and fix it. The dial is in decent shape and the tablet seems to be original. If anyone knows any more info about this one, I would certainly be appreciative. Thanks in advance.
     
  46. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Nov 26, 2009
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    #46 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2018
    I googled the name and found much about Marie Tempest. Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry: Marie Tempest - Wikipedia

    Tempest1886.jpg

    Briefly, she was an English soprano who performed in late Victorian light opera and musical comedies. She toured North America so her name would have been familiar to Americans and Canadians. People to whom such a clock would have been marketed.

    It's also interesting she was a union organizer. She was one of the founders of the British actor's union, Equity.

    AND it's also interesting in that Welch is famous for its line of clocks named after famous opera stars of the day, the "Patti" series.

    Nice genuinely antique American clock. With TLC should fix up nice.

    RM
     
  47. blueloon

    blueloon Registered User

    Jan 13, 2010
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    Thanks, RM, for the info. It will be a while before I get to cleaning and fixing this one because I've already got a backlog. It probably takes me 3 times as long to clean and reassemble as the normal person. But, then again, I just do this as my personal collection (and for the occasional friend).
     
  48. bondo3

    bondo3 Registered User

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    Here is my Welch. It is the first clock I bought(I only have two). Most of the veneer was off so I stripped it and finished it with mahogany stain and beeswax. I cleaned and oiled it with the help of some youtube videos. It needed a suspension for the bob which I found on ebay. I wrapped the hammer with tape as my wife hates clock sounds. She is nuts.

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