Weight movement converted to spring

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by DN4911, Mar 11, 2017.

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  1. DN4911

    DN4911 Registered User
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    Jan 19, 2017
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    Hi all this was one of a lot of five clocks I got this week off craigslist. It runs but the case is for a weight movement. Any one have an idea what movement belongs here?
     

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  2. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Oct 5, 2007
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    #2 George Nelson, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2017
    Hi,

    Without knowing the maker of the case, it looks as if a 30 hour brass weight movement would fit. Is the case about the same height as a common OG clock? If so, that would most likely confirm the original use of a 30 hour. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I think that Seth Thomas sold a clock like this. I'll look at my book and see what I can come up with.

    More later,

    George Nelson

    PS Found some similar clocks in the Tran book (Arlington Book Company). See the attached very poor picture. These are eight day clocks, something I did not know about.
     

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  3. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

    Jul 2, 2002
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    This is a New Haven "INDUS' model clock. Their is another model "GANGES' . Both were produced as weight or spring driven in the same cases. Circa 1881. See Trans New Haven Book (Arligton Book Co.) page 318. I think you can search this board for mor info.
     
  4. DN4911

    DN4911 Registered User
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    Jan 19, 2017
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    Thanks George and Jack, appreciate it. I didn't know they made the weight driven clocks that long, thought they would have been phased out. I will be on the look out for a New Haven 8 day weight movement with dial. Is it possible they used the same case for both, and that even though the case is set up for weights, it was also used for the spring movement? If so perhaps the movement is original...
     
  5. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Super Moderator
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    Mar 3, 2006
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    Does the dial fit correctly, with no extra mounting holes added? If so, the movement may be original.
     
  6. DN4911

    DN4911 Registered User
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    Jan 19, 2017
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    Yes IMG_5168.JPG IMG_5170.JPG IMG_5171.JPG fits well and no sign that the weights were ever used. No evidence of wear or holes for the seatboard. After searching the forum looks like it might be possible that this has been documented before. When I first saw it I was a bit miffed but now I think it is really interesting that they did this. Also there was a fragment of a label on the back that confirms it is a New Haven Indus model. Thanks to all for the comments and help!
     
  7. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Super Moderator
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    Mar 3, 2006
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    The message board can be helpful.
     
  8. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Nov 26, 2009
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    #8 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
    For what it's worth, here's a link to a posting about the weight driven version of the Ganges: http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?70469-post-your-favorite-New-Haven-clock/page4

    Scroll down to posting # 8.

    Note the dial and dial mask are very similar to the one on your clock.

    Your clock actually is part of an interesting sort of, well, weird period in the New Haven Clock Co. production in the 1870's of which I'm not sure I can make complete sense.

    They were making, for reasons unclear, products that were not quite mainstream.

    At a time when most people wanted 8 day spring driven shelf clocks (and most makers, including NH were making relatively inexpensive stuff like the still ubiquitous 8 day "kitchen" clock) they produced basically miniature 30 hour weight driven clocks like my Ganges, the Indus and even a miniature 30 hour weight driven ogee an example of which I once owned! Dr. Taylor discusses the movements used in this article: http://www.nawcc.org/images/stories/...2/232_531a.pdf

    NHCC also at this late date was making 8 day shelf clocks with integral fusee' movements similar to those made by Jerome some 40-50 years earlier! See my fusee' clock thread for 2 examples and links to articles.

    Well, getting back to the miniature weight driven clocks. They rarely turn up. I don't think they were good sellers. I really do believe that they took the cases they had and stuck 30 hour spring driven movements into them as they would be the best fit. The cases were made for weight driven movements. See posting #17 and #18 of the above linked to thread for an earlier discussion of spring driven movements in these cases.

    So your clock represents an interesting, albeit obscure, bit of NHCC history.

    Another bit of evidence I would look at in your clock is to see if there is any evidence of wear where weights once may have travelled. If none, a reassuring sign.

    Also note that the stiles on either side of the movement of your clock have slots that were once meant to accommodate a seat board upon which the weight driven movement would be mounted. Check those. Again, they should have the same amount of oxidation as the rest of the stile and show no evidence of use or wear. That would again be reassuring.

    Overall, I do think your clock is probably "right" and makes sense in the context of the probable history of these clocks. The case is missing turned round applied decorative bosses from above and below the door and some other doo-dads that were once glued on and are typically missing. See Tran's "New Haven" book to see what's gone.

    Enjoy your clock.

    RM
     
  9. DN4911

    DN4911 Registered User
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    Jan 19, 2017
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    Thanks RM, yes it does look like they took the weight case and just modified it a bit to fit the mvmt. But the movement is an 8 day spring. They gouged out the inside of the stiles a bit so the mvmt. would fit. There is a spool in the stile for the strike side weight cord and it looks pristine. Nothing to suggest a weight movement was ever used, and no evidence of a seat board! The pictures and discussions on the "Favorite New Haven" thread were very instructive. I am not sure that it ever had the turned decorative bosses like those shown. If there were some, they were simply glued on because no evidence of a hole or any glue either for that matter. I do believe the glass is new, I am looking at possible decals. My friend and mentor has a similar New Haven but the door is missing. I want to build him a replacement door. Any idea what type of wood these used? He thought it might be walnut but it isn't real dark. BTW I can't get the link to the PDF article to load correctly. Even when I put in my password. Is there another citation you can give me for the article?
     
  10. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Nov 26, 2009
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    Ok. I did not catch that your clock has an 8 day movement. Caused me to go back an look at a few things which may be of interest.

    Looking at my "Indus" posted in the previously linked to thread, please note the label.

    Printed in black ink, states 1 day, "weight" which is out of alignment with the rest of the printing and in a different type face.

    Now, look at the label on your "Ganges". Printed in red, clearly states "8 Day", nothing about "weight".

    Thoughts about this?

    H'mm...further evidence I think that your clock always was intended to be an 8 day spring clock!

    Interesting choice of names for these models. The Indus is one of the longest rivers in S. Asia running through what is now Pakistan but I believe at that time been part of India? The Ganges is a sacred river in India.

    There is a chronic problem with non-functional links on the MB which seems to have the befuddled befuddled. Short of sending you to the original print version, I have no other advice but to keep trying...the link will work eventually.

    If your buddy's clock appears to be the same wood, I would say the door was walnut. Also consider oak or ash if it appears lighter.

    I do think your clock did have the applied bosses. They were just glued on so they would not leave evidence of dowel holes. I believe that your case was refinished at some point which diminished the left over shadows. However, I do believe I can see traces of them. Take a closer look.

    Once again, a simple genuinely antique American clock can be interesting.

    RM
     

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  11. DN4911

    DN4911 Registered User
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    Jan 19, 2017
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    Thanks all interesting comments. In South America until April but looking forwards to following up on these ideas.
     
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