Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by WRabbit, Apr 3, 2017.

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  1. WRabbit

    WRabbit Registered User
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    I’m having a strike train problem with a 2 weight Resch (Remember) movement. It strikes the hour correctly, but it repeats the hour count at the half hour. I’ve discovered the Resch intermediate wheel has 2 opposing pins equidistant from the center arbor, while the one on my Becker has 2 opposing pins at different distance from the center arbor (see attached pics). I’ve searched the site and what little I can find on Vienna intermediate wheels is the pins are staggered like my Becker.

    A few comments:

    • The Resch has the snail mounted on a star wheel and the Becker has the snail mounted on the hour pipe.
    • The Resch uses a diamond shaped tension spring under the minute canon. It’s in place, but this thing is a bear to get lined up so it strikes correctly.
    • The Resch is a repeater:???: It has a hole in the side of the case with a cord sticking out.

    Is this strike behavior normal? What am I missing?
     
  2. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    #2 Randy Beckett, Apr 3, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017

    I don't think so.

    If you look closely at the rack, you will see that the first tooth is shorter than the rest of the teeth. I think the half hour lift pin should only lift the long lever enough to release the first tooth only, resulting in a single strike on the half hour. Could be the lift pin is bent upwards some, resulting in a higher than normal lift. Also could be that the bridge that holds the intermediate wheel is locked down higher than it should be, holding the intermediate wheel, and lift pin, a little too high.
     
  3. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    With a flirt kicking off the strike, you don't have much control over the drop of the rack. It will drop to a step on the snail.

    I'd accept the hour strike at the half hour, unless the strike weight was dropping a lot faster than the hour weight. If that was the case, I would remove the second pin.

    Ralph
     
  4. WRabbit

    WRabbit Registered User
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    The rack does have a short first tooth, but the pins on the intermediate wheel are equal distance from the arbor (see pic), resulting in a full strike count twice each hour. The wheel appears to have been manufactured this way. Due to this difference I thought this movement may work in a different manner than the Becker I compared it to.

    The pins are straight enough to my untrained eye and the bridge doesn't have noticeable play (again, the eye thing).

    The weight does drop faster than it should. However, I don’t feel comfortable altering the way the movement is designed to work (by removing a pin). I’m hoping the current wheel design is normal and the problem is caused by lack of proper setup.

    Thanks to both of you for taking the time to comment.

    Jim
     
  5. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    I am by no means an expert on these movements, but, it seems like one of the lift pins is bent a little bit, to give more lift to the rack hook. Could the opposite pin be bent a little to give less lift to the rack hook on the half hour?
     
  6. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    The pins do not determine the lift of the rack hook. The movement uses a spring loaded flirt, that is loaded and released by the pins.

    If the strike weight is coming down faster the time weight, I suspect the second pin was added .

    Bending the pins will only change very slightly, the point at where/when the strike sequence begins.

    Ralph
     
  7. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    I guess I am just to dumb to get it. I do not see how those pins can not affect how high the rack hook is lifted. And, Ralph, I do not understand about the spring loaded flirt. If it was a 3 weight grand sonnerie I could understand it. The strike weight is falling faster because the hour strike is actuated twice each hour. Maybe I am just getting to old.
     
  8. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    I suppose the easiest way to figure out what it is supposed to do is to leave the dial off and index it very slowly by hand and watch what happens as the long lever is being lifted as it comes up on the hour, or half-hour. It will either drop the rack a single tooth at first, then the rest when it gets closer to the strike point, or the rack won't move at all until it drops all at once. This would tell what it likely should do on the half-hour.
     
  9. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    "dumb", no, it's me... I should have looked closer. I thought it had a flirt mechanism. I see now, that it does not. Mea culpa...

    I'll still stand by, someone added a pin, if the weight is coming down much faster than the time side, but based on the rack's short tooth, it does suggest the half hour pin is mislocated, by error, wrong replacement, or ??

    I'd relocate the half hour pin.

    Ralph
     
  10. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    Before relocating the pin, try just a little bending, to give a little less lift.
     
  11. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    Can't tell for sure from the picture, but it looks like the point of the rack hook might have been possibly rounded off (filed on) at some time or another. If he rack helper spring is a little too strong, I can see where the momentum of the moving rack might cause the rack hook to jump over the second, and remaining teeth, until the snail stopped it.
     
  12. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Looking at the levers, you'd need to lace the 1/2 pin at almost the
    center of the wheel to not lift it too far and have the rack drop.
    A slight bend of the pin would not be enough.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  13. WRabbit

    WRabbit Registered User
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    Bending the pin didn't make a difference. I think this may be a factory error and the solution is to relocate the pin. I decided to put the movement back together and will consider moving the pin in the future.

    I appreciate the input on this issue.

    Jim
     
  14. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Here are photos of my Resch movement with wheel in question.i measured the distance of each pin from the tip of the teeth. Hope this helps.
     
  15. WRabbit

    WRabbit Registered User
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    Will,

    I appreciate the photos and measurements. I plan on relocating the pin in the near future using your info.

    Jim
     
  16. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I had noticed on the original pics that the pins were placed equally away from the center of the wheel. In Will's picture, you can see that the half hour lift is closer to center. I don't know what that means for sure on your clock, because it does look that way by design .... like both lifts should be equal. But in my mind, it makes no sense to have it that way. It's possible that the clock was originally an hour strike only, and was (badly) modified to strike the half hour too.
     
  17. wow

    wow Registered User
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    http://mb.nawcc.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=338892&d=1491192661

    Here are the two movements. Mine and Jim's. Mine is an hour/half hour strike movement and his looks exactly the same except for model number. ( his is the attachment and mine is the thumbnail)
     
  18. WRabbit

    WRabbit Registered User
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    Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue - Epilogue

    I think it's time to put this dog to rest.

    I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions on how to remedy this issue. The part looked OEM, which caused me to be reluctant to alter it due to thinking the original intention may have been to strike as it was. As previously mentioned, this double hour strike resulted in the strike weight descending twice as fast as the time side. This started to be annoying after 18 months of ownership. The clock was obviously well taken care of in the past. I'm surprised this problem was never addressed.

    Using Will's pictures and measurements, I was able to relocate the pin to the correct position. The clock now strikes correctly for what I assume to be the first time in it's 130+ year life. It's been striking normally for 3 days and the weights are side by side as they descend. I'm a very happy camper....

    A BIG thanks to Will and those who contributed to the thread.

    Jim
     
  19. oldticker

    oldticker Registered User

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    #19 oldticker, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    It is NOT a flirt and the lifting IS affected by the MINUTE WHEEL pins. One pin should lift enough to operate the hour and the other enough to just operate the half hour by dropping the rack ONE tooth only. Make one pin hole slightly closer to the center of the minute wheel pinion to make the correction.

    Another solution is that the lifting lever is lifting too much on both the hour and half hour and an adjustment maybe all that is needed to reduce the lifting height to correct the problem.
     
  20. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue - Epilogue

    Glad you got it going. Glad I could help.
     
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