Waterbury Weights?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by JST, Apr 6, 2017.

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  1. JST

    JST Registered User
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    I recently bought a Waterbury No. 2 Regulatory clock (first picture). It’s an eight day, time only weight driven clock. You can find it on page 173 of Tran Duy Ly’s “Waterbury Clocks and Watches”. Circa 1891. I’m wondering if the weights are correct for that clock (second picture). When I first swing the pendulum, it makes slight contact with the weights until it’s swing evens out. The weights are both 5 5/8” in circumference and 4 7/8” tall. The weight on the right side of the picture weights about 3.4 lbs. and the one on the left weighs 4.4 lbs. The clock will work for a few days and then stops. I haven’t even taken to dial off, so I have no clue why it’s not running for a full week. It might not have anything to do with my question about the weights.

    I’d appreciate any help or thoughts anyone can give me.

    Thanks.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. glenhead

    glenhead Registered User
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    Re: Waterbury Waits?

    If the pendulum hits the weights, try inserting a shim behind the bottom of the case. That may shift the geometry between the pendulum and weights enough to clear. Worth a try, anyway.

    I find it surprising that the weights are different on a time-only clock. My surprise is based purely on ignorance, however. It's entirely possible that they're supposed to be that way, and I'm sure someone with a clue will chime in. :)

    How long has it been since the clock was overhauled? Wear or dirt or both are about the only causes that I know of for a weight-driven clock to run short. That is assuming the weight cables are the right length, and they're not snagged, and all that, and assuming the weights will descend fully to the bottom of the case or the ends of the cables. If you don't know when or if it was ever worked on, or if it has been more than a few years, that would be Step 1. A good cleaning and repair of any issues will both protect the clock and help it run as well as it can.

    Good luck!
    Glen
     
  3. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Re: Waterbury Waits?

    nice clock... but so many things need to be checked, all starting with removing the dial and seeing what lies beneath. almost certainly needs cleaning/servicing... which would address all issues and guarantee good running for next period of time.

    the weights look similar, but not identical... suspect. if it's a time-only, they should be the same. not sure what original spec would have been, but maybe someone here will know. i would guess 3.5 lbs on either side would be fine if serviced... but just a guess.
     
  4. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Most Waterburys with this movement have thin cigar box shaped weights that are hidden in the sides of a wider case. I don't recall seeing this movement in a case with so little space at the sides.
    I'm pretty sure that factory weights would be identical.
    Willie X
     
  5. Jim Hartog

    Jim Hartog Registered User
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    Hello JST,

    Merritt's still sells it as part number CW 117 (Timesavers no longer carries it). I found an image on Google Images by searching "Waterbury weight". It fits Willy X's description perfectly.

    Jim
     
  6. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    willie said 'most'... and we haven't seen what the inside of the case... or behind the dial... looks like. i think the brass weights look more appropriate for this kind of time-only wall hanger, but we obviously need more photos, please!!!! :cool:
     
  7. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Thanks to everybody for their advice. Frankly, I am shocked to think that the case has been altered. I’ve looked it over carefully before buying it, and didn’t see any signs of alterations. But, as Willie X points out, that would explain things. I’m not at home this week, so I can’t measure the case. Can somebody tell me what the width and depth should be? Jim H, thanks for finding the weight that Willie X was describing.

    I need your guy’s advice. Realizing I don’t have the actual dimensions of the case with me, do you think the CW117 weights would work? Thanks again for all the help.
     
  8. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    wait wait wait... we need to see more photos of the inside of the case... AND... the clock should run with those weights. even if one is lighter (or one heavier) than it should be, the fact that it stops is not due to the weights. it almost certainly needs cleaning and/or servicing to know for sure.

    because it's a time-only, both of the weights drive great wheels that BOTH drive the clock... meaning it should run on just one of the weights, i.e., while you're winding it.

    it would be be really helpful to confirm the movement by actually seeing it, to see how the weights are suspended, any wear marks or channels on the sides of the case where the weights travel, etc.

    don't get ahead of yourself by buying weights you probably don't need, and that may not be appropriate for that clock.

    methinks the brass weights are appropriate and look mo' bettah.

    are you comfortable removing the dial? if not, at least please open the door and take as many photos as you can.
     
  9. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Smike, you posted to the thread as I was researching my post above. As mentioned, I'm not home this week. Early next week I'll remove the dial and take better pictures. In the meantime, I do have a few more pictures that might help. All of these pictures were taken on an angle to avoid the glare from the flash. Hope these are of some help. Thanks.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  10. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    i think the brass weights are right/appropriate... even if not original. if you had the rectangular lead ones, they would be visible (based on location of weight cords) and definitely smack into the pendulum... and there's nothing to keep them from spinning. i think the lead ones typically run down the sides of clocks, in channels (willie has huge experience, i'm a newbie... but have multiple similar clocks.)

    btw... i think this is a lovely clock. i would think more about making sure the movement is happy/healthy and running great... you can always find a matched set of brass weights on eBay if you really want them perfectly matched. these recent photos really show how different they are in color/composition. if you polished them, they might look more alike.

    looking forward to more shots...
     
  11. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Maybe someone on the list has one of these clocks? The weights I've seen are cast iron and only about 1 1/4" thick (guessing). The narrow rectangular weights would add about 2 1/2" extra space at the pendulum bob. But that case doesn't look like it would have sufficient depth (front to back). Key measurements would be from the centerline of the cord to the side of the case and the obvious front to back in the weight well.
    Curious, Willie X
     
  12. Jim Hartog

    Jim Hartog Registered User
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    Hello JST,

    If you do a search in Clocks General for "Waterbury #2 pendulum beat scale", a post from 2006 will show up with four photos showing the clock, pendulum, movement and weights. When you get a close look at the clock (dial off), check to see if the weight pulleys at the top of the case have been moved. The rectangular weight pulleys would be further out than cylindrical weight pulleys so that they could slide down close to the outside of the case and not be visible through the door glass. The post also mentions that some of the rectangular weights were grain painted.

    None of the Waterbury regulator #2 pictures (there aren't many) in Google Images show the weights behind the door glass.

    Jim
     
  13. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Thanks everybody for all of your replies. Very helpful. Fear not, I am not running out and buying anything until I'm back home, have removed the dial, carefully inspected everything, and taken more pictures. Jim H., I appreciate you pointing me to that old post. For those interested in reading it, here's the link:

    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?20741-Waterbury-2-Pendulum-Beat-Scale&highlight=Waterbury+%232+pendulum+beat+scale

    I was hoping that somebody on the Message Board has a Waterbury Regulator No. 2 and can post the measurements of the case and some pictures.

    I'll be back next week with more pictures, and probably more questions. :D

    Thanks.
     
  14. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    moral of story: listen to willie :cool:
     
  15. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Problem Solved!! Nutjob Both weight cords were tangled behind the dial (First Picture). That must have happened in transporting it from the auction. Lesson learned: tie down the weight cords before transportation. I’ve included a couple of pictures showing the weights in their proper positions; with the door open and one with the door closed (Pictures 2 & 3). You can’t see them at all when the door is closed. I also included a picture of the inside of one side of the case that shows wear from the weight rubbing against it (Picture 4). The clock has been running ever since I straightened out the cords.

    Thanks to everybody for their comments and help. Much appreciated!!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  16. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    yes, well that might account for it! :cool:

    whenever i buy a weight-driven clock i immediately remove the dial and inspect the movement and ESPECIALLY the weight cords... and usually replace them with new braided nylon cord do i don't have to worry about weights crashing through the bottom of cases on my watch (so to speak!).

    glad you worked it out... nice clock.
     
  17. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    That clock looks really nice. I have always been partial to the 10 and 12 sided geometrics.
    Willie X
     
  18. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Thanks Smike and Willie X. I'm glad to say that it's still running. The pulleys for the cord (which should be replaced) are attached to the top of the clock case. You can see that from the first two pictures in my last posting. The bolt from the pulley goes through the top of the case and a square nut on the other side holds it in place. I can post more pictures if you need them. I'm curious, if I remove the movement from the case, how do I test it? Can it go into some sort of test stand? Or do I put the movement back in the case to test it? Any advise? Thanks
     
  19. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    If the movement is in good condition, it will run on one weight. They are easy to work on, so a take-apart cleaning is something that should not be put off, even if it will run on one weight. ☺
    Willie X
     
  20. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    if you remove the movement and go through it and do all the right things... make sure no bushings are needed, clean and burnish pivots, ultrasonically clean the movement, make sure everything is true, etc. and then reassemble WITHOUT the verge, you can oil LIGHTLY and spin the gears with the slightest touch of a finger. you will be able to tell that it's a happy movement, ready to run.

    you can (relatively easily) create a test stand by getting a piece of plywood (or a place you can work on a level garage wall) and mounting the bracket the the wood (or wall). you can then also suspend the pulleys as needed so you can run the bare movement and observe....

    it's a nice clock and certainly worth a professional servicing if there's a clock shop or nawcc member near you. if you want to do it yourself, do you have any tools... lathe? ultrasonic cleaner? good clock oil? have you done this before? if yes, you're good to go. in no, please PM me and i can share some approaches that might help, but might not be (fully) endorsed by those more experienced in the right way(s) to do this... but that would at least be better than doing nothing.
     
  21. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Thanks for the advice smike. I'm comfortable repairing most clocks. This one won't be too bad. I learned over the years to not assume I always know what I'm doing, and ask questions even though sometimes they sound a bit silly. Probably will end up putting this movement in a test holder than can handle weight driven movements. It won't be exactly like the pulleys in the case, but good enough for testing. Thanks again. I appreciate everybody's responses.
     
  22. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    hope I didn't offend! I know I'm a newbie here, just trying to share the few things I actually have learned. :)
     
  23. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    I usually find the best test stand for clocks like this one is the case it came in. Everything fits just fine.
     
  24. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    On some of these movements I have run them on the test stand without a set of pulleys. The pulleys are in the case to get the weights away from the pendulum and to provide sufficient drop without a longer case size. Observe how the string comes off the arbor, and simply drop the string and the weight directly under the movement, taking care to make sure the string is not tangled or interfering. I sometimes tie a slip knot loop on the string to have the weight hang closer to the movement so I don't have to hang it too high on the test stand.

     
  25. JST

    JST Registered User
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    Thanks everybody for the advice on how to test the movement. I do have one test stand that can handle the weight cords. The cords won't go above the movement like they do in the case, but it should work for testing purposes.

    smike - I certainly didn't take any offense to your suggestions because I'm positive none was intended. I appreciate your thoughts and experiences.
     
  26. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    good.

    btw, just bought these on ebay... another didn't-really-need-'em-but-why-the-heck-not purchase. given our discussions here, i can see clamping them onto a piece of plywood upon which the movement bracket and movement are mounted. they would then let you mimic the in-case setup, while allowing you to visually inspect the running (hopefully!) movement from all angles. as opposed to harold, i often have trouble getting my entire head into the case during testing! :cool:

    my thinking is that these have to be for just that purpose, as i can't see anyone wanted to clamp (instead of more permanently install) needed pulleys in a tall case.



    [​IMG]
     
  27. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    I have a flashlight and a mirror to see what needs to be seen while the movement is in the case for testing.
     
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