Waterbury Regulator # 70 that needs help!!

[Randy Chapin]

Hi,
I am mostly a watch collector but over the 45 years of collecting horology items have kept some very nice ones. Recently I purchased an Oak Waterbury Regulator # 70 from a neighbor who inherited it from dad. It has a 2 jar mercury pendulum but did not, has not been running. In my limited research with Tran du Ley I am guessing that this regulator used a movement not made by Waterbury. I have had the movement to two repairmen and neither could get it running. I think the verge has been altered. What recommendations can you offer please to help get this beauty up and running. It is a keeper. Please help!!
Randy Chapin

 

[bikerclockguy]

The movement looks like it’s patterned after the Seth Thomas 77, so I’m guessing it’s a deadbeat escapement? This one is on eBay, and it has the mercury pendulum, while some of the other 70s do not. His is listed as a “jeweler’s regulator”, so maybe that was a high-end version or something? I was wondering what your one pic was, and when I saw his, I realized it was the ends of the verge. That “ice tong” setup is pretty wild.

 

[bruce linde]

The movement looks like it’s patterned after the Seth Thomas 77, so I’m guessing it’s a deadbeat escapement? This one is on eBay, and it has the mercury pendulum, while some of the other 70s do not. His is listed as a “jeweler’s regulator”, so maybe that was a high-end version or something? I was wondering what your one pic was, and when I saw his, I realized it was the ends of the verge. That “ice tong” setup is pretty wild.

waterbury made their own movements and also sourced pinwheel movements from Switzerland.

you are correct that it is a deadbeat escapement. my waterbury no. 8 has the same Graham deadbeat escapement... an escapement, by the way, which predates Seth Thomas 77… and 61… movements by maybe 150 years.

jewelers regulator clocks beat seconds... the effective length of the pendulum is 1 meter... even if they are sometimes longer because of larger bobs, gridirons, etc. The French actually named the meter after the length of the seconds beating pendulum. It is also called a royal pendulum. Equating the quality and time keeping ability of one of these clocks with a Seth Thomas regulator one or two really just means you need to do some more reading.

The angles of the locking and impulse faces on the verge need to be correct. They need to be checked by someone who knows what they are doing. David labounty fixed the verge on a movement for me a couple of years ago… But I believe he has a 6 to 9 month waiting list.

Those angles are different for heavier or lighter pendulums, and it's also crucial to check the escape wheel teeth at the same time to make sure the geometry is correct. It would not be hard to pull that movement and send it off to someone like David for servicing and any required repairs. They could come up with a workable pendulum and the weight and just run it on a test stand.

in the meant, take advantage of the information readily available online: checking deadbeat verge angles - Google Search

it's kind of hard to see what's going on because the verge is dirty and needs cleaning, and we would need to see clearer and more close-up photos of the lock and impulse faces on both sides of the verge.

randy - where are you located? do you have an iPhone by any chance? Or a mobile phone that you can do a zoom call on? If so, send me a private message and maybe we could do a video call sometime and I could help you see if the verge really has been altered or if the set up just need some tweaking.

 

[Randy Chapin]

waterbury made their own movements and also sourced pinwheel movements from Switzerland.

you are correct that it is a deadbeat escapement. my waterbury no. 8 has the same Graham deadbeat escapement... an escapement, by the way, which predates Seth Thomas 77… and 61… movements by maybe 150 years.

jewelers regulator clocks beat seconds... the effective length of the pendulum is 1 meter... even if they are sometimes longer because of larger bobs, gridirons, etc. The French actually named the meter after the length of the seconds beating pendulum. It is also called a royal pendulum. Equating the quality and time keeping ability of one of these clocks with a Seth Thomas regulator one or two really just means you need to do some more reading.

The angles of the locking and impulse faces on the verge need to be correct. They need to be checked by someone who knows what they are doing. David labounty fixed the verge on a movement for me a couple of years ago… But I believe he has a 6 to 9 month waiting list.

Those angles are different for heavier or lighter pendulums, and it's also crucial to check the escape wheel teeth at the same time to make sure the geometry is correct. It would not be hard to pull that movement and send it off to someone like David for servicing and any required repairs. They could come up with a workable pendulum and the weight and just run it on a test stand.

in the meant, take advantage of the information readily available online: checking deadbeat verge angles - Google Search

it's kind of hard to see what's going on because the verge is dirty and needs cleaning, and we would need to see clearer and more close-up photos of the lock and impulse faces on both sides of the verge.

randy - where are you located? do you have an iPhone by any chance? Or a mobile phone that you can do a zoom call on? If so, send me a private message and maybe we could do a video call sometime and I could help you see if the verge really has been altered or if the set up just need some tweaking.

Hi Bruce and thank you for the thoughtful reply. While I don't have an iphone, I do have an android and often participate in Zoom and jitsi meetings with my laptop and would be happy to connect with you on this wonderful old clock. I would also be happy and able to take many additional photos of any parts necessary. I have had the movement apart several times, but am NOT qualified to tackle a verge for sure.
I am in Santa Cruz, Ca. 831-246-0945, horology@cruzio.com.

 

[Vernon]

Don't lose the idler wheel, it looks like it is about to slip off it's post at the front plate.
Vernon

 

[R. Croswell]

waterbury made their own movements and also sourced pinwheel movements from Switzerland.

you are correct that it is a deadbeat escapement. my waterbury no. 8 has the same Graham deadbeat escapement... an escapement, by the way, which predates Seth Thomas 77… and 61… movements by maybe 150 years.

jewelers regulator clocks beat seconds... the effective length of the pendulum is 1 meter... even if they are sometimes longer because of larger bobs, gridirons, etc. The French actually named the meter after the length of the seconds beating pendulum. It is also called a royal pendulum. Equating the quality and time keeping ability of one of these clocks with a Seth Thomas regulator one or two really just means you need to do some more reading.

The angles of the locking and impulse faces on the verge need to be correct. They need to be checked by someone who knows what they are doing. David labounty fixed the verge on a movement for me a couple of years ago… But I believe he has a 6 to 9 month waiting list.

Those angles are different for heavier or lighter pendulums, and it's also crucial to check the escape wheel teeth at the same time to make sure the geometry is correct. It would not be hard to pull that movement and send it off to someone like David for servicing and any required repairs. They could come up with a workable pendulum and the weight and just run it on a test stand.

in the meant, take advantage of the information readily available online: checking deadbeat verge angles - Google Search

it's kind of hard to see what's going on because the verge is dirty and needs cleaning, and we would need to see clearer and more close-up photos of the lock and impulse faces on both sides of the verge.

randy - where are you located? do you have an iPhone by any chance? Or a mobile phone that you can do a zoom call on? If so, send me a private message and maybe we could do a video call sometime and I could help you see if the verge really has been altered or if the set up just need some tweaking.

Bruce, you pretty well covered it. Dave LaBounty as an article about how to find lift angles that can be found here https://abouttime-clockmaking.com/pdfs/finding_the_lift_angles.pdf From the pictures of this verge, it almost looks like someone attempted to add metal to the pallet on the left in the picture. Lovely old clock, definitely worth the cost to have someone like Dave put it right.

RC

 

[bruce linde]

randy and i have confirmed this is the same movement as in my waterbury no. 8... and the movement is on its way to me so i can check it out. turns out my clock mentor has known randy for over 40 years and will take a look at it if i can't get it running. it kind of looks like someone tried to slipper one of the pallets... i will check angles using the method provided in the attached article, originally sourced/recommended by LaBounty

if needed, i will take my movement apart so we can get measurements from a known non-hacked working verge....

btw... although the article does not explicitly mention this, larger/heavier pendulums want 1.5 degree lift angles... where smaller pendulum setups typically use 2 degrees.

 

[TEACLOCKS]

I'm Sorry I don't see an Escape wheel ?

 

[Randy Chapin]

The escape wheel is there, here are more photos of the movement. Thanks for any and all your thoughts.
Randy

 

[bruce linde]

the movement has been cleaned and is running... and is on its way back to the OP. the pitting on the verge is not on the pallet faces, and appears to have been caused by an ammoniated solution or rust remover. once cleaned it just needed adjustment of the front verge arbor holder to dial in the distance between verge and escape wheel.