Waterbury Mantel Clock

[Mr Upcycle]

Hi, as I am based in the UK you do not get the chance to see many Waterbury Clocks and was pleased to find a Waterbury mantel clock to add to my collection.

However, looking at the movement out of the clock I discovered a couple of things.

It looks like the clock has been worked on in the past and had some parts played about with.

From what I can see, this movement does not have a pendulum adjuster mechanism even though the clock face has the adjuster hole in the top. In fact, there is no adjuster bar and it looks like the adjuster plate on the back of the clock for the pendulum spring is fitted upside down and looking at one of the gears this seems to have been soldered quite heavily for some reason.

I also found the remains of what could be part of a broken lifter bar jammed in the clock but cannot see where this may have been originally attached and the gauge of the bar wire is much thinner to any of the others lifter bars used in the movement.

We then found a pallet which is very worn/broken and looks to have been soldered/repaired in the past.

Can any body help with any pointers or a diagram/manual to check out where the broken part could be from and if it is possible to get a replacement pallet as a unit for the clock.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Willie X]

I don't think that wire staple came from your clock movement.

It would be nice if you could find a good used verge assembly for your clock. It will be difficult to repair that old one but not imposable. There is a 'strip pallet repair kit' that can help and several 'between the plate' replacement pallet that may be useable with mods. Willie X.

 

[R. Croswell]

Hi, as I am based in the UK you do not get the chance to see many Waterbury Clocks and was pleased to find a Waterbury mantel clock to add to my collection.

However, looking at the movement out of the clock I discovered a couple of things.

It looks like the clock has been worked on in the past and had some parts played about with.

From what I can see, this movement does not have a pendulum adjuster mechanism even though the clock face has the adjuster hole in the top. In fact, there is no adjuster bar and it looks like the adjuster plate on the back of the clock for the pendulum spring is fitted upside down and looking at one of the gears this seems to have been soldered quite heavily for some reason.

I also found the remains of what could be part of a broken lifter bar jammed in the clock but cannot see where this may have been originally attached and the gauge of the bar wire is much thinner to any of the others lifter bars used in the movement.

We then found a pallet which is very worn/broken and looks to have been soldered/repaired in the past.

Can any body help with any pointers or a diagram/manual to check out where the broken part could be from and if it is possible to get a replacement pallet as a unit for the clock.

Thanks for your help.

This is what the Waterbury regulator for that clock looks like. Very common to find these with a broken tooth. Yes, it does look like it is upside down. Not going to be easy to fine this part unless you can find a used movement for parts. One option is to leave the regulator inoperative and use an adjustable pendulum bob to regulate the clock. I agree that wire staple did not came from your clock movement. Movements that have been played with are often challenging because you have to re-fix all the stuff that was done wrong first.

RC

 

[Mr Upcycle]

This is what the Waterbury regulator for that clock looks like. Very common to find these with a broken tooth. Yes, it does look like it is upside down. Not going to be easy to fine this part unless you can find a used movement for parts. One option is to leave the regulator inoperative and use an adjustable pendulum bob to regulate the clock. I agree that wire staple did not came from your clock movement. Movements that have been played with are often challenging because you have to re-fix all the stuff that was done wrong first.

RC

View attachment 715586

I don't think that wire staple came from your clock movement.

It would be nice if you could find a good used verge assembly for your clock. It will be difficult to repair that old one but not imposable. There is a 'strip pallet repair kit' that can help and several 'between the plate' replacement pallet that may be useable with mods. Willie X.

Hi Willie X, and RC, thank you both for your comments and suggestions. I am trying to source some parts from another movement if possible. No idea what this other bit of wire was doing in the clock jamming up the gears and good to know you think it is not part of it. it would be good to get hold of some type of diagram to see all the bits. I take it all these clocks with the hole in the front should have originally had a regulator fitted and with my clock the bar/tube has been lost along the way. Good to know that even though it looked like it was fitted upside down that is how it should be. The pallet on this clock is damaged at both ends and on one end a broken piece has been soldered back on. So a new pallet would be required. Also looking for these parts I did not know that you have both internal and external pallet movements. Just goes to show how very different these Waterbury movements are when compared to a Smiths Enfield.

 

[R. Croswell]

....... it would be good to get hold of some type of diagram to see all the bits.

The picture below is one I recently serviced that should be the same as yours mechanically (except the broken strike mainspring and a lot off filth). This one has steel plates instead of brass but is otherwise the same. It also had a broken tooth on the regulator which was replaced from a scrap bin movement.

I take it all these clocks with the hole in the front should have originally had a regulator fitted and with my clock the bar/tube has been lost along the way. Good to know that even though it looked like it was fitted upside down that is how it should be.

This is true unless someone changed the face or swapped cases or movements.

The pallet on this clock is damaged at both ends and on one end a broken piece has been soldered back on. So a new pallet would be required. Also looking for these parts I did not know that you have both internal and external pallet movements. Just goes to show how very different these Waterbury movements are when compared to a Smiths Enfield.

Waterbury was one of the large American clock makers. They made many different movements; some have internal pallets (verges) and some external. There were also several variations of the movement you have, some had a bell half-hour strike, some were made with steel plates, etc. These usually run quite well.

Good luck with this project.

RC

 

[Mr Upcycle]

Hi All and Willie X and RC,
Following on from my last post, on this topic I have been looking out for another Waterbury mantel clock as suggested to be used for spares and was able to find a broken one in need of some TLC.

However when looking over the clock this model seemed to be on the face of it better than the one I already had and did not seem right to just strip this down for the pallet part I needed.

So it looks like I now have another Waterbury clock project to work on.

When I picked up the clock one of the gears was out of the clock movement and I thought that a pinion may have broken. I have now removed the movement and it seems somehow the gear for the strike had managed to pop out of the movement as the back plate had bulged out.
The backplate seems to be brass and I have realigned/flattened the back plate and reinserted the gears and all seems OK as the clock will tick (no problem with the pallet on this one) strike on the hour and ring the bell on the half hour and also has a fully working pendulum adjuster.

The key for this clock has both a winder and adjuster end and on my other clock the key just had a winder so looks like that one may have never had an adjuster bar fitted,

Next we will need to do a full service and strip down, the good news is as I have not worked on this style of USA movement before, I now have another movement to use as a reference point, so hopefully should be able to put it all back together.

This new clock does have some other issues to look at and has also raised some further questions that I hope you can help me with.

1. Any idea on the age and model type of this clock
2. This clock has a plastic window door insert, which I assume is not standard. it looks like the securing ring bezel would be soldered in originally and was not keen on giving this a go with the plastic inset.
3. Inside the bottom base of the clock in the corner there is a hole and I have spotted this in other Waterbury clocks as well, does this serve a function and was this to just help with the sound.
4. The clock face is flaking and has had some attempt of repair/painting any suggestions on what to do to help stabilise what we have left.
5. The back panel is very basic and difficult to remove and as you will see has been prized open in the past. Looking at some other Waterbury clocks they have been fitted with a pull handle which may not be standard but would help.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.

 

[R. Croswell]

Replace the plastic in the door with glass. In the USA I would send the dial to The Dial House. The pictures are a little fuzzy and don‘t show much detail of the movement. Someone set this movement aside for a reason, it may look pretty nice at first blush, but you may be in for some surprises and more fun than expected.
RC

 

[Mr Upcycle]

Replace the plastic in the door with glass. In the USA I would send the dial to The Dial House. The pictures are a little fuzzy and don‘t show much detail of the movement. Someone set this movement aside for a reason, it may look pretty nice at first blush, but you may be in for some surprises and more fun than expected.
RC

Hi RC thanks again for your comments. I thought you should have glass in the door for this age of clock and will add this to my lists for parts.

The clock is holding together at the moment on test and hope it stays that way.

Do you know anything about the reason for the hole in the base?

I have added some extra pictures if that helps with the aging of the clock.

 

[wow]

I do not see a hole in the base in any of your photos. Can you post a shot of it so we can see what you are asking about?

 

[R. Croswell]

Hi RC thanks again for your comments. I thought you should have glass in the door for this age of clock and will add this to my lists for parts.

The clock is holding together at the moment on test and hope it stays that way.

Do you know anything about the reason for the hole in the base?

I have added some extra pictures if that helps with the aging of the clock.

This clock looks to me like early 20th century. You may find this interesting: The Waterbury Clock Company: History and Identification

As for the hole in the bottom, I can't see it in the pictures but the question of a mysterious hole in the base of some clocks has come up before with no proven reason for being there. Two possible reasons that have come up relate to shipping the clocks. It has been suggested that clocks were shipped in groups of several clocks and somehow the holes were involved with keeping the clocks in place during shipping. Another suggestion is that the holes held some sort of restraint to keep the clock crutch/pendulum from moving during shipping. Either way whatever was in the holes was likely removed before the clock was placed in service. Perhaps someone else has additional information.

RC

 

[Mike Mall]

Hi All and Willie X and RC,
Following on from my last post, on this topic I have been looking out for another Waterbury mantel clock as suggested to be used for spares and was able to find a broken one in need of some TLC.

I would suggest looking for another clock for parts, but this could go on forever

If you post this clock query in it's own thread as your newest find, instead of repair, - you may catch the attention of someone with more information on the clock's origins.

 

[bwclock]

Hi All and Willie X and RC,
Following on from my last post, on this topic I have been looking out for another Waterbury mantel clock as suggested to be used for spares and was able to find a broken one in need of some TLC.

However when looking over the clock this model seemed to be on the face of it better than the one I already had and did not seem right to just strip this down for the pallet part I needed.

So it looks like I now have another Waterbury clock project to work on.

When I picked up the clock one of the gears was out of the clock movement and I thought that a pinion may have broken. I have now removed the movement and it seems somehow the gear for the strike had managed to pop out of the movement as the back plate had bulged out.
The backplate seems to be brass and I have realigned/flattened the back plate and reinserted the gears and all seems OK as the clock will tick (no problem with the pallet on this one) strike on the hour and ring the bell on the half hour and also has a fully working pendulum adjuster.

The key for this clock has both a winder and adjuster end and on my other clock the key just had a winder so looks like that one may have never had an adjuster bar fitted,

Next we will need to do a full service and strip down, the good news is as I have not worked on this style of USA movement before, I now have another movement to use as a reference point, so hopefully should be able to put it all back together.

This new clock does have some other issues to look at and has also raised some further questions that I hope you can help me with.

1. Any idea on the age and model type of this clock
2. This clock has a plastic window door insert, which I assume is not standard. it looks like the securing ring bezel would be soldered in originally and was not keen on giving this a go with the plastic inset.
3. Inside the bottom base of the clock in the corner there is a hole and I have spotted this in other Waterbury clocks as well, does this serve a function and was this to just help with the sound.
4. The clock face is flaking and has had some attempt of repair/painting any suggestions on what to do to help stabilise what we have left.
5. The back panel is very basic and difficult to remove and as you will see has been prized open in the past. Looking at some other Waterbury clocks they have been fitted with a pull handle which may not be standard but would help.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.

View attachment 716949 View attachment 716950 View attachment 716951 View attachment 716954 View attachment 716955

1...Your cock appears to be the "Evona" model (Tran #984) which was listed in their 1912 catalog.T he production of this model may have started before 1912 and continued after. It is described a being with a "golden oak or birch mahogany finish".
5...The back panels on the Waterbury clock I have seen did not have a handle. They looked like yours does.

Dial repair charges in the USA at the Dial House or other dial painter/restorers with whom I have communicated would far exceed the intrinsic value of that clock. I am unaware of how much professionals charge in England. Individuals have posted their in-house attempts on this forum, some of which are surprisingly good.
Bruce

 

[Mr Upcycle]

1...Your cock appears to be the "Evona" model (Tran #984) which was listed in their 1912 catalog.T he production of this model may have started before 1912 and continued after. It is described a being with a "golden oak or birch mahogany finish".
5...The back panels on the Waterbury clock I have seen did not have a handle. They looked like yours does.

Dial repair charges in the USA at the Dial House or other dial painter/restorers with whom I have communicated would far exceed the intrinsic value of that clock. I am unaware of how much professionals charge in England. Individuals have posted their in-house attempts on this forum, some of which are surprisingly good.
Bruce

Hi Everyone and thank you all for your comments and suggestions and link on the history of the Waterbury clock company and the age and model type of my new clock.

It would be nice to have a new/restored clock face for this clock but as mentioned the cost of this could exceed the value of the clock. I am all too aware of this as I attempted to clean a Blick clocking in clock face which started off OK and then went down hill quite fast and as the clock dial is quite large the estimates I have had back for this work have followed suite. I should have left it as it was and enjoyed the patina.

Turning to the mystery hole in the clock base, I have added a new picture if that helps.

My first thought was something missing? and if not what was it for, could it be to help let the sound out or as suggested by RC from other posts something to do with shipping. As mentioned I have noticed this hole in the same position in similar Waterbury clock cases.

Finally I am glad you have asked me for a better picture of the inside of the clock to look at the hole.

This clock did not have a pendulum and I have been using the one from my other clock on the lookout for another one.

Just looking at the picture now, I thought I may have to deal with some wood worm!

Thankfully not the case and I have now located the missing pendulum which is really jammed up in the corner.

Thank you all for your support and assistance.

 

[Mr Upcycle]

Just a quick update, I have now managed to get the pendulum out of the case.

This now raises the question, would this be the correct style of pendulum originally used with this clock..

The reason for asking is with this movement we have the pendulum adjuster bar and mechanism and on the pendulum we also have a swing adjuster, so all options are covered.

 

[R. Croswell]

Some clocks come with both means to adjust the rate. Sometimes the original weight gets lost, and sometimes the built-in adjuster fails to work and an adjustable weight is added. I would go with it, you can't see it in this clock.

Here's one of mine that has the same adjustable pendulum, so I'm now sure it is original.

 

[Mr Upcycle]

Some clocks come with both means to adjust the rate. Sometimes the original weight gets lost, and sometimes the built-in adjuster fails to work and an adjustable weight is added. I would go with it, you can't see it in this clock.

Here's one of mine that has the same adjustable pendulum, so I'm now sure it is original.

View attachment 717147

Hi RC as always thank you for your comments and information on the types of set up for adjusting these clocks.

Nice to know I have the original pendulum for the clock and one less part I will need to source.

The pendulum being used from my other clock was a more typical all brass type pendulum and with the other clock the adjuster works just fine.