Watch running very fast

Discussion in 'Watch Repair' started by Daniel Denlinger, Aug 29, 2018.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have a Hampton 18s keywind I have been working on for a month it gain huge amounts of time, checked with a timegrapher, had to adjust balance weight to get Settings correct, now shows movement is spot on ! , but still running very fast. Gains about 3 seconds a minute. I don't know what I can do next.
     
  2. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
    NAWCC Business Sponsor

    Feb 11, 2005
    6,360
    1,223
    113
    Male
    Watch Parts Dealer
    Camarillo, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Daniel and welcome!
    I'm going to move your post to the Watch Repair section where I think you will get better response.
     
  3. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 13, 2014
    458
    141
    43
    Male
    Watchmaker (now accepting new customers)
    Lincoln, NE, USA
    Country Flag:
    What do you mean by "get settings correct"? Can you say in more detail what you have done to it, what watch it is, and so on?
     
  4. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
    NAWCC Business Sponsor

    Feb 11, 2005
    6,360
    1,223
    113
    Male
    Watch Parts Dealer
    Camarillo, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Just a shot in the dark here... If the timegrapher is dead on and the displayed time on the watch is way off, someone could have slipped an incorrect wheel in the motion works. I've seen this happen on models where early on they were 'slow train' then switched to 'quick train'. The new and old parts would interchange but would not yield the correct time.
     
    viclip likes this.
  5. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 13, 2014
    458
    141
    43
    Male
    Watchmaker (now accepting new customers)
    Lincoln, NE, USA
    Country Flag:
    Another shot in the dark: if you have a 16200 watch (standard slow train) and you removed a ton of weight to make a timing machine (set to 17280) say it's right, it would run at +4s/minute. If so that is some serious damage that will be hard to undo.
     
    viclip likes this.
  6. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
    3,407
    94
    48
    Male
    Gothenburg
    Country Flag:
    I agree with Dave and Chris and I think you should start to count threads and check if they match the beat.

    I had a strange watch on my dest some years back. After cleaning etc. I could not adjust it since according to the timing machine it was running extremly fast. I corrected the beat with weights on the balance and guess what! According to the timing machine it ran fine, but the watch was extremely slow.....
    Someone had changed a wheel and adjusted the balance to match the new wheel..... To run correctly the beat was very odd..... I don't remember what I did to it but I remember this "stupid" watch.
     
  7. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Does anyone know what beat this movement should be, I have been using 18,000 bph
     
  8. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
    2,018
    28
    48
    watchmaker
    sydney Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Only way to be sure is to do a train count
     
  9. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Not sure what that is ?
     
  10. River rat

    River rat Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 4, 2009
    559
    106
    43
    I know wristwatches can get magnetized were it messes up the timing could it happen to pocket watches were a watch demagnetizer machine would fix this problem. There cheap in price for used ones think I paid 15 bucks at a NAWCC mart for a used watch demagnetizer machine.
     
  11. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks I have a demagnetizer and used it on this movement. One of the 1st things I checked. DOES anyone know were I can fine information on Hampton 18s keywind Beats per hour specifications
     
  12. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have another Hampton 18s keywind that's keeping fairly good time I am going to check it on machine and see what is BPH is showing Thank you all for you input.
     
  13. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 13, 2014
    458
    141
    43
    Male
    Watchmaker (now accepting new customers)
    Lincoln, NE, USA
    Country Flag:
    They sure might be different. The only way to know for sure is to count the teeth on the wheels and the pinions. (Well if you have for instance a Microset that can count the ticks, you can run it until the hand goes around one hour, and then look at the count.)

    You could also count (out loud helps) each tick for one indicated minute (the second hand going from 60 to 60). You will very likely get 240, 270, or 300. If it's another number, I think Dave gets the prize!
     
  14. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
    2,018
    28
    48
    watchmaker
    sydney Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Train count is where you count the teeth on the train wheels and pinions

    Centre wheel X (third wheel / third pinion) X (fourth wheel / fourth pinion) X (escape wheel / escape pinion) X Pallets = Beats per Hour (BPH)

    So for an example, 80 X (64/8) X (60/8) X (15/8) X 2 = 18000 bph

    Your timegrapher won't tell you the actual beat count, it tries to match the count to a preset set of beat counts programmed into it then calculates the seconds per day based on that count.

    Only timers like Microset and various computer based timers will give you the actual beat count.

    Watch trains are usually standard counts based on beats per second.

    4 beats per second is 14,400bph
    4.5 beats per second is 16,200bph
    5 beats per second is 18000bph

    There are watches with odd counts around, like one omega calibre that at the time needed a modified timer to rate it.
     
  15. Bila

    Bila Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    870
    166
    43
    Male
    Retired
    Country Flag:
    Give us the serial number and I will probably be able to tell you what BPH it should be?
     
  16. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It's a Hampton 18s model #1 year 1872. Serial #96862. This was only the second year Hampton made watches
     
  17. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Other watch I have 18s keywind, that is running well is, 18000 bph. Serial #187609
     
  18. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have two timing machines one does tell me actual bph. That how I have been adjusting it to match 18000. Think that were I made my mistake. I think it maybe a 16200 bph slow train.
     
  19. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I staked a new balance and trying to decide what to set it up as 16200 bph ?
     
  20. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 5, 2007
    1,663
    514
    113
    Watchmaker
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Not to put too fine a point on it; but watch work requires a systematic approach. Jumping from not knowing the beat count to changing the masses on the balance, to demagnetizing (was the watch running running the process?) to "staked a new balance" is only going to create a hopeless situation.

    Time to reboot. Put everything back the way it was and then set your instrument to the correct the settings.
     
    Daniel Denlinger and gmorse like this.
  21. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Also thank you for the lesson on train count very informative. I will try that before proceeding.
     
  22. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks , I was just trying to figure out what the BPH are on this movement, sorry for all the confusion. This watch was a basket case so hard to set everything back the way it was.
     
  23. Bila

    Bila Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 22, 2010
    870
    166
    43
    Male
    Retired
    Country Flag:
    #23 Bila, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
    The 187,609 serial will be fast train @18000BPH, the 96,862 serial is the interesting one as I know Hampden's from 99,000 onward were fast train, but yours is just before that. They are both Model 1's but changes were made during production runs of the same models with the various Watch Companies in most cases. Now for the Hampden assembled New York Watch Company material watches you will see Hampden marked watches in the 42,000 serial range that are fast train, this was due to their much later assembly then their serial number indicates, thus, this is were it becomes confusing. What did you do with the hairspring from that balance, was the hairspring and balance assembly original to the watch:???:
     
    Daniel Denlinger likes this.
  24. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I had to get new hair spring and balance NOS from Mike Payner. Great guy to get Hampton parts from he bought all parts in Canton Ohio before Russia got company, anyway watch had no balance or hairspring when I got it. So I set up for 18000, now going to redo to a 16200. If this does not help I will count train to see correct bph.
     
  25. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Mike Paynter is also a wealth of information for anyone working on Hampton watches he is on Ebay.
     
  26. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
    3,407
    94
    48
    Male
    Gothenburg
    Country Flag:
    If you set it up, doesn't that mean you will have to cut the hairspring? You can't go back! Why not start counting the train to get it right the "first" time?
     
    Daniel Denlinger and gmorse like this.
  27. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Not cutting spring adjusting balance wheel weight
     
  28. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
    3,407
    94
    48
    Male
    Gothenburg
    Country Flag:
    If I think correctly just adding weight will give you a high swing. Wach out for knocking. Do you intend to weaken the main spring as compensation?
     
  29. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Setup new balance to run at 16200 bph. Watch is keeping good time now , needs a few minor adjustments to keep great time for a watch made in 1872. Thanks for all the information that everyone gave me.
     
  30. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
    3,407
    94
    48
    Male
    Gothenburg
    Country Flag:
    Congratulations!

    Can you tell us some data about how it runs e.g. amplitude?
     
    Daniel Denlinger likes this.
  31. Daniel Denlinger

    Daniel Denlinger Registered User

    Jul 28, 2016
    38
    2
    8
    Male
    Retired
    South Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Watch is keeping great time now only losing less than one minute per day. Reading are as follows.(BPH = 16200), (Amplitude = 285). ,(B.E. = .6)
     
  32. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
    3,407
    94
    48
    Male
    Gothenburg
    Country Flag:
    Thanks. I was mainly interested in the amplitude. I thoght it would be way off with the additional weighs but 285 seems very good.
     

Share This Page