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WATCH MOVEMENT STRUCTURE DESIGN.

ducnguyen

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Mar 9, 2021
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Hi everybody.
I'm Vietnamese, my English is very poor, so I use google translate to explain my problems. Everyone sympathizes with my inconvenience. I am a person who has so far only consulted watches, watch construction from the web, but my passion for watch construction has been strongly motivated. So I delved deeper into the construction and design of the watch movement. From there I sketched out a watch movement to my knowledge and to my desired design (image I attached). There are some questions of mine that I want to ask, hope everyone can share and answer my questions. I am extremely grateful to everyone:

1. Currently my gears are drawing according to the module 0.2 and 0.1. I don't know how much module the gears of the clock use, so I want to ask everyone what the gears of the clock usually use. what kind of gear and how much module. (I used the software to input the parameters and generate the gears automatically).

2. There are some watch details when I design them only 0.1mm in size, so are those details wrong? because 0.1mm is a size too small to make.

3. I am trying to simulate with detail Gyrotourbillon, anyone please give some advice and comment on my efforts.

4. I would like everyone to take some of their precious time to review and evaluate my sketches and point out inaccuracies and unreasonable points so that I can perfect my passion.

I would like to sincerely thank, and accept everyone's ideas for the project and my passion to come true, I would love to have everyone's input. Sincere thanks everyone.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg
 
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Dave Haynes

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Sep 12, 2000
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Nguyen ? Duc.
I spent a year there in '66-67. Wonderful beautiful people, beautiful country. Duc, I would advise you to buy a few old cheap watches to study. No battery watches just old wind up watches. You'll see how the power gets from the mainspring to the escape wheel and from there uses the pallet fork and balance to let the power go at a specific rate. It is simple. Send me a private message with your address and I'll send you a dozen or so to take apart and learn.
Dave
 
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ducnguyen

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Mar 9, 2021
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Nguyen ? Duc.
I spent a year there in '66-67. Wonderful beautiful people, beautiful country. Duc, I would advise you to buy a few old cheap watches to study. No battery watches just old wind up watches. You'll see how the power gets from the mainspring to the escape wheel and from there uses the pallet fork and balance to let the power go at a specific rate. It is simple. Send me a private message with your address and I'll send you a dozen or so to take apart and learn.
Dave
Hi Dave Haynes,
Please forgive me if there are any incorrect words, because I use google to talk to you. I am very honored to know that you were in Vietnam 66-67, at that time I was not even born. I was born in 93, we Vietnamese are very pleased to welcome friends from far away, currently in Vietnam we don't have anyone who can manufacture watches, they only repair and maintain watches. That's why I want to join the mechanical watch industry, partly because of passion, partly because I want to bring my creativity into products. I'm so glad that you spent your precious time with me, I have sent you a private message about the issues I am wondering and not understanding. If you are free, you can check your private message box. I thank you very much for your feedback.
 

karlmansson

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Apr 20, 2013
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Hey Nguyen!

There will be several different modules used in a wristwatch. This is dependent on the power being transferred. For instance, the ratchet wheel will have a larger module than the fourth wheel. The cutters for the wheels and the pinions will also differ, depending on the number of teeth. The tooth profile used in horology is epicycloidal, or approximations thereof. In most other mechanical applications where power transfer is prioritized over friction an involute profile will be used instead.

Best of luck! A gyrotourbillion is quite the first project. Do you intend to make the movement as well? I would suggest starting smaller just so that you get somthing working before you move on to more advanced stuff.

Karl
 
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ducnguyen

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Mar 9, 2021
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Hey Nguyen!

There will be several different modules used in a wristwatch. This is dependent on the power being transferred. For instance, the ratchet wheel will have a larger module than the fourth wheel. The cutters for the wheels and the pinions will also differ, depending on the number of teeth. The tooth profile used in horology is epicycloidal, or approximations thereof. In most other mechanical applications where power transfer is prioritized over friction an involute profile will be used instead.

Best of luck! A gyrotourbillion is quite the first project. Do you intend to make the movement as well? I would suggest starting smaller just so that you get somthing working before you move on to more advanced stuff.

Karl
Hi karlmansson,
I thank you for taking your precious time with me, I understood some of what you shared, but I have a question: If two gears have different modulus, then we will calculate the gear ratio. how. I understand that for most watch gears, they make their own cutlery and not follow the prototype wheel that is on the market. I longed to be able to make this movement, I also understand that I should research the small one first, but the Gyrotourbillon is so beautiful, I was drawn to it with an irresistible force. I did some research and found a few simple prototypes of the Gyrotourbillon: https://edu.3ds.com/en/projects/gyrotourbillon. i plan to design a plastic prototype (using 3d printer), and edit on it. When everything goes well, I will invest in cnc machine to make it with steel material. I intend to make the watch without hands, instead there will be two rotating circles on the dial.
 

karlmansson

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Apr 20, 2013
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Hi karlmansson,
I thank you for taking your precious time with me, I understood some of what you shared, but I have a question: If two gears have different modulus, then we will calculate the gear ratio. how. I understand that for most watch gears, they make their own cutlery and not follow the prototype wheel that is on the market. I longed to be able to make this movement, I also understand that I should research the small one first, but the Gyrotourbillon is so beautiful, I was drawn to it with an irresistible force. I did some research and found a few simple prototypes of the Gyrotourbillon: https://edu.3ds.com/en/projects/gyrotourbillon. i plan to design a plastic prototype (using 3d printer), and edit on it. When everything goes well, I will invest in cnc machine to make it with steel material. I intend to make the watch without hands, instead there will be two rotating circles on the dial.
I would suggest buying and reading “Watchmaking” by George Daniels before you proceed with making your watch. Not sure if translated copies are available though. Even if you intend to use CNC, Watchmaking provides some good insights into choices of materials in watches. Making it entire out of steel will not only be very difficult but in some applications also counterproductive.

Two meshing gears (or gear and pinion) will always need to have the same module. But gears and pinions with different modules often share the same arbor in a watch. Also, the same module will use different cutters for different teeth counts as the diameter will change. This especially applies to the dedendum part of the tooth form.
Again: tooth profiles used in horology are epicycloid. In other applications such as gearboxes an involute tooth form is used. While you can make epicycloid (or closely resembling cutters) yourself (have a look at Clicksprings patreon page) it is a lot of work and hard to get right, especially for small cutters. PP Thornton is one maker of horological cutters but a single cutter can be somewhere around 80 euro. And you need a variety of them for a single movement.

Beat of luck!
 
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ducnguyen

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Mar 9, 2021
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I would suggest buying and reading “Watchmaking” by George Daniels before you proceed with making your watch. Not sure if translated copies are available though. Even if you intend to use CNC, Watchmaking provides some good insights into choices of materials in watches. Making it entire out of steel will not only be very difficult but in some applications also counterproductive.

Two meshing gears (or gear and pinion) will always need to have the same module. But gears and pinions with different modules often share the same arbor in a watch. Also, the same module will use different cutters for different teeth counts as the diameter will change. This especially applies to the dedendum part of the tooth form.
Again: tooth profiles used in horology are epicycloid. In other applications such as gearboxes an involute tooth form is used. While you can make epicycloid (or closely resembling cutters) yourself (have a look at Clicksprings patreon page) it is a lot of work and hard to get right, especially for small cutters. PP Thornton is one maker of horological cutters but a single cutter can be somewhere around 80 euro. And you need a variety of them for a single movement.

Beat of luck!
I sincerely thank you for the useful knowledge you have given me, I have gained more knowledge from your comments. I ordered the book "Watchmaking" by George Daniels, and received it. However, the book is in English, it will probably take me a while to convert it into Vietnamese through google translate. In terms of structure as well as materials, you also opened my mind to how to think about materials and gears. I will try to continue implementing my project according to the knowledge you have shared. Once again I would like to thank you very much for your precious time. If in the process of completing, there is something I do not understand or do not know, please allow me to continue to ask you.
 
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karlmansson

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Apr 20, 2013
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While you are certainly most welcome to contiue to ask questions here there is a fair bit of studying that you can do to get the basics down. To better understand how you will need to design your gears, have a look at gear theory in general and epicycloid gears. This website is a good resource: Designing Cycloidal Gears (csparks.com)

There is also a lot of handwork that goes into most movements, CNC machined or not, especially when it comes to finishing and fitting. So I would suggest getting some practice there. My approach has been to service a lot of watches from different manufacturers to get a feeling for how others before me have solved different problems and how they have laid out their movements. It is also interesting to see how watches have evolved over time and what solutions have popped up and then faded away ones better materials were available. For instance: the need of a fusee in a pocket watch almost entirely went away when modern, alloy springs with compensating curve became the new standard. It made the entire movement a LOT simpler but more sophisticated at the same time.

Regards
Karl
 
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ducnguyen

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Mar 9, 2021
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While you are certainly most welcome to contiue to ask questions here there is a fair bit of studying that you can do to get the basics down. To better understand how you will need to design your gears, have a look at gear theory in general and epicycloid gears. This website is a good resource: Designing Cycloidal Gears (csparks.com)

There is also a lot of handwork that goes into most movements, CNC machined or not, especially when it comes to finishing and fitting. So I would suggest getting some practice there. My approach has been to service a lot of watches from different manufacturers to get a feeling for how others before me have solved different problems and how they have laid out their movements. It is also interesting to see how watches have evolved over time and what solutions have popped up and then faded away ones better materials were available. For instance: the need of a fusee in a pocket watch almost entirely went away when modern, alloy springs with compensating curve became the new standard. It made the entire movement a LOT simpler but more sophisticated at the same time.

Regards
Karl
I really appreciate your advice, it's true that I need to learn more, learn more about them, find out a lot better. But unfortunately in Vietnam, the current watch industry has no or very few, so it is almost impossible for me to have access to it. I can only do my own research and research through the internet, from materials available on the internet, so many things I still have a lot of difficulty in making watches. But my passion is great, so I will try to continue. Thank you very much for your advice, I will keep trying, have a nice day.
 
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ducnguyen

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Mar 9, 2021
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I also found a recipe developer's cake maker software in this site: Designing Cycloidal Gears, all wheels I make are based on software developed under this website.
 

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