Watch & Clock Bulletin Articles

Discussion in 'Member News and Views' started by Rhett Lucke, Apr 5, 2020.

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  1. Rhett Lucke

    Rhett Lucke Board Secretary
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    In the past few month's, and since joining the Board of Directors, I've seen and fielded a number of concerns from members concerning the lack of Bulletin articles on specific subjects (particularly wrist and pocket watches). To address this concern, it is first important to understand that our Bulletin content is almost entirely made up of articles submitted from members. Therefore, the number of articles on any given subject is strictly driven by what our members submit. Our excellent editorial staff has no bias towards any given area and is always interested in receiving articles on all horological related subjects.

    As I read through the many excellent threads in the various forums on this message board, it is clear to me that we have many members with interesting collections, artifacts, research projects and stories that are certainly worthy of inclusion in the Bulletin. When considering whether to write up an article or story, it is important to understand that not all articles need to be of a technical nature. Many of the most interesting stories revolve around the personal aspects of the hobby, how an object was obtained or its history of ownership.

    At a time when most of us are having to spend more time at home, due to the Covid-19 Virus. I would like to suggest members consider taking some time to submit an article or story to our editorial staff in Columbia.
     
  2. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    I wholeheartedly second your recommendation, Rhett! I have found that the publications staff members are easy to work with and are very helpful. There are some basic guidelines that are included on the Publications tab of the NAWCC website - these include submitting the content in Word, and the pictures or illustrations in separate files (JPG or TIF). The section also outlines the different types of submissions. It would be great if some of the research, collections, interesting finds, etc. that we see here on the Message Board could be included in the Bulletin for others to enjoy and learn from.

    Pat
     
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  3. Al Dodson

    Al Dodson Registered User
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    I believe we should also reinstitute the webinars. These are much easier to put together than a published article. They need be no more than a power point presentation. They also give the participants a chance to interact live with the presenter.
     
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  4. Rhett Lucke

    Rhett Lucke Board Secretary
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    Al,

    The reason I started this thread was to help address some specific complaints I've received regarding Bulletin content. Our editorial staff is always looking for member content to include in our bi-monthly Watch & Clock Bulletin.

    Having said that, you bring up an excellent and timely point in regards to webinars. Especially during these times when many are spending significantly more time at home and online. These webinars are another avenue, where individuals can put together a presentation on virtually any horological related subject for an interactive online presentation. It should also be noted that past webinars are available for online viewing at: GoToStage.com
     
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  5. Al Dodson

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    Thanks Rhett. I wonder how many members know that. I do, but I bet most don’t. We should be actively promoting this and other offerings with emails to our members now, especially when they are looking for diversions. Since this is unrestricted, we should be reminding them to share this with interested friends who are not members.
     
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  6. Tom McIntyre

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    We also have our video content available on our Vimeo site. The V icon in our social media links at the top of the message board will take you there. A lot of that material was in Adobe Flash that has had some problems recently.

    If you would rather follow this link it will work too. NAWCC.

    I would encourage everyone to click on anything on this site that you do not know the function. You may find something interesting and you may be able to report something that is not working. :)
     
  7. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Tom, thanks so much for the hint about the Vimeo and YouTube icons at the top of this page to link to the recorded programs. I always use bookmarks I had added long ago. You just saved me a step (or two)!
     
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  8. John Cote

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    I'm all for the video links and anything else on the NAWCC web but as Rhett says, we need watch people to step up and write for the Bulletin. We can all say that print is dead but one of the main complaints I hear from my NAWCC member watch friends is that there is no watch content in the Bulletin.
     
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  9. Tom McIntyre

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    Back when I was running 3,000 to 5,000 attendee computer usergroup conferences, we gave admission discounts to those who provided content. I wonder if incentives still work? Wristwatch collectors in particular usually do not have the 100 hours of free time a week that I do.
     
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  10. John Cote

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    That's an interesting idea. At first impression I like it. Let me run this by the board. Thanks Tom.
     
  11. Jerry Treiman

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    We already have a lot of good material posted on our message board. Wouldn’t it be possible to add a feature in the Bulletin that presents edited highlights of those postings? This might also help draw more people to the message board. I would not expect the Bulletin editors to be the ones to select material for publication, as they are editors and not necessarily watch or clock experts. However, the moderators of our various forums might be able to nominate threads that they think have good material to share in print, and the authors might be given the opportunity to polish or add to their initial posts, and the editors can format it for publication. This spreads the burden fairly evenly for publishing material that is already written. If I am not mistaken we already grant the NAWCC permission to use what we post for educational purposes (with credit and ownership retained by the author).

    There might be an issue with peer review and incorrect information, but perhaps the forum moderators will have a sense of which threads are more authoritative. Also, it is the nature of these threads that someone else will speak up if they think something is incorrect or incomplete, providing an informal peer review. Certainly not everything is publishable, but there should be enough material for a column every two months; perhaps separate columns for clock threads, pocket watch threads, wristwatch threads and repair threads.
     
  12. John Cote

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    I love this idea Jerry. We should do this.
     
  13. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Along similar lines, the following forum has been discussed by the mods and admins. Highlights

    I think you can view it, though not add to it. As the introduction states: "This forum contains highlights from interesting discussions on the Message board that will be posted on the NAWCC main site. They will each contain a link to their original discussion thread.
     
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  14. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Just curious....If threads are referenced, or linked, would they also be locked before including a link?
     
  15. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I see no reason to lock a thread simply for this purpose. Relevant and interesting material might be added at a date following the reference or link.
     
  16. Rhett Lucke

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    Tom, Jerry and Steve, all great thoughts for the board and headquarters to review.

    I've also thought that many of the threads on this message board were candidates for Bulletin articles or duplication in the ongoing "Fantastic Finds" write-ups.

    At the same time, I would still like to encourage anyone interested in putting together an article or story to visit the website link Pat mentioned above or contact the publications department for details on how format and submit.
     
  17. Clint Geller

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    #17 Clint Geller, Apr 16, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
    The four videotaped presentations from the seminar we did at the museum: "Timeless Testaments: Civil War Watches and the People Who Carried Them" could be uploaded to this site. I could put one together on early Howard watches as well. I'll be retiring on May 1, so I'll have the time.
     
  18. Jim DuBois

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    There was also a detailed video of the Masonic display at the ESR last fall. I have it if someone wants to upload it where it can be seen by members. It is about 1.5 hours long and is done by George Goolsby.
     
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  19. Tom McIntyre

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    #19 Tom McIntyre, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
    Clint, the Vimeo link at the top of every page will take viewers to the NAWCC Vimeo site.The videos can be embedded here just by copying and pasting the URL into a post. as you can see here.

     
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  20. Dr. Jon

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    My recent encounter was not encourage.

    One of the threads in the Euroopean and other watches forum produced a link to a very good article on Saltzman and jacot. The article is in German in Klassik Uhren.

    I translated the article and then offered it to the Editor.

    The editor wrote that before they did anything I needed to get permission to use their copyright.

    I wrote in reply that contact withte magazine is quiet difficult and I had hoped that:
    1) They woud enquire about the subect of the article
    2) Offer assistance obtqining copyright if the article was of interest,

    The editor also failed to specially state what the nature of that permission had to be.

    FWIW I expect no glory or admiration for translating some else's work. I also doubt a journal is going to give me freedom t coy their work without some confidence that it will be used as promised and latter from a journal editor would be far mior likely to gain permission. I am not going to put as lot of non horological time into trying lacking any confidence they will use it.

    My view is that the article is worth reading for two reasons:

    1) It has a lot of information on the Swiss -American watch business in the late 19th and early 20th century,
    2) The structure and methods of research are examples if how to do this.

    I am done with this editor. If you are a board member do not ask for the editor to reach back. I will not respond.

    For me now I know why there are not a lot of articles on a lot of things in the NAWCC journal. I have published elsewhere and I probably will again.

    If anyone wants my translation let me know and I will furnish it provide they agreed not to violate copyright and disseminate it.

    As to the translation, I have had several years of high school German and while not fluent can get around i the langauge and I am familiar with German horological terms. I believe its a decent translation, a corrected and rephrased many net translation errors; but would benefit from professional editing, as the Journal did before,
     
  21. Tom McIntyre

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    I wonder if there is any interest in historical fiction? When I am writing about topics in horology it is most often the people who interest me. When I do not know the circumstances of a particular series of events, I try to understand the person well enough from the other information I have about them to add whatever is needed.

    I feel free to do that in a presentation, but perhaps less comfortable doing it in a "scholarly" work.

    I particularly find the history of John Roger Arnold to be too sparse and often inclined to diminish him.

    John Arnold is widely admired and he deserves it for his accomplishments and for the way he developed under fire and became a favorite of the king. However, John Roger actually had an equally important role in developing the business and supported his father while he spent his final years with a new young wife doing nothing for the name. John Roger even purchased his father's business rather than inheriting it. Later in life John Roger and his wife were barren and his nephew whom he had adopted died very young. As a result he took in John Dent as a partner during some of his most inventive years. Dent terminated their partnership when the contract allowed and claimed essentially all of the work for himself. He even set up his competing business a few doors down the street. During the final three years of his life John Roger outsold Dent in their head to head competition to the extend that Charles Frodsham was able to buy out John Roger's estate and eventually drive Dent out of the neighborhood.
     
  22. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    I have been thinking about a similar item in British horology. I got the idea from the play Heisenburg which hs about an evening Werner Heisenberg spent with Neils Bohr.

    My idea is play called about A Man Who came to Dinner (The Man who came to Dinner is already taken)

    This would fill in the meeting between Harrison and Mudge. As reported Mudge started with a low opinion of Harrison who had been sent by Halley to be checked for sanity. Ater sparring, they came to like each other. Mudge invited him to dinner and loaned him money to get started on his project. Mudge then quit his own business to try compete, I'd like to see a flash back to Huber who had also engaged Mudge to turn his idea for a constant force escapement into a marine time keeper. IT had to have been one of tehmost significant meetings in horological history
     
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  23. Clint Geller

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    #23 Clint Geller, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2020
    The king of historical fiction is Bernard Cornwell. I've read a couple dozen of his historical novels. He writes the best battle scenes I've ever read. One of the best compliments I ever received on my own fiction writing was that my battle scenes reminded my reader of Cornwell.
     
  24. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Dr. Jon,
    I agree that the referenced article is quite interesting, and I certainly wouldn't have been able to translate it with my one semester of German in college. Having said that, out of respect for the work of others, as well as in keeping with current copyright laws, I always try to provide attribution, as well as a bibliography/list of references/footnotes as needed, and use my own images in both presentations and articles. I have found the guidance for Bulletin article submissions that are provided on the NAWCC website, to be very helpful when preparing an article for publication. I am including the link here in case others are considering submitting articles. Submission Guidelines | National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.

    Best regards,
    Pat
     
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  25. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Tom,

    Ask Hilary Mantel . . .

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  26. Jim DuBois

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    #26 Jim DuBois, Jul 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    The process used by the Bulletin staff over the last 5 years or so is not what I would consider stable. I think I have several unpublished articles submitted during the reign of the last 3 editors. The last one submitted I received feedback there was a plan to use it. That was an editor ago. Nothing since. I guess it will not be used? The other items submitted but not published? I don't even remember what they were anymore. So, any request for supplying Bulletin content falls to the wayside here. I am not the only one who has had this problem. Fortunately, there are other places to publish, but that doesn't necessarily feed the NAWCC membership or readers. I am pretty new to trying to publish in the Bulletin and my work is not always 100% "camera ready" so perhaps I am my own worst enemy, but still.....
     
  27. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    To PatH,

    The submission guidelines apply only if one decides to submit an article.

    They do not state anything about what subjects are of interest, who is the intended readership or how deep to go into detail.

    This lack of a definition of what the Journal should publish is the core of the problem. Doing all the work of the submission guideline only to get rejected or disappear into limbo is not enticing,

    That is why I started trying to get an idea of whether the editor has any interest in a submission. I came to this after going through all of that and finally being informed they were not going to use the article, because it was not something they were interested in.

    They can avoid having to deal with such inquiries if we or they publish subject and content guidelines:
    1) Subjects of interest
    2) Desired readership, is it casual reader we hope to entice into the organization? experts trading war stories, how to's for hobbyists wanting to do repair or restoration, details of watch production, current trends in fakery and how to detect them. As it is now I have no idea who the Journal is intended to please and how much detail a technical article needs or should not have or whether there is any interest in technical articles.
    3) Length of articles and policy in multipart articles.

    I believe this direction needs to come from the Board of Directors who have to define the editors job make this happen. They have to provide guidance on the mission and interests of the Journal.

    Unless you have had to work on a Word document sent to you by the staff you have no idea how much time a revision or review takes and how much of that is spent dealing with Word and computer issues instead of what is in the article.

    I had several articles published several editor back. It was a major struggle and lot this was my fault. I kept finding new stuff and putting it into revisions. They did a great job with this and if the staff never wants to deal with me again I can understand this, but I believe we put out good articles. They made a few mistakes too.

    By contrast I wrote to the editor of the Swiss journal about an unusual watch I had found asking what it was. The reply was that they did not know but if I wrote it up they would publish the article after translating it. Again I found a lot of additional information. The translator found some really stupid things I had written and he fixed them and then they published the article in German and sent me a box of issue so I can give out reprints. Their view is that they are interested in anything about old horological items and the more detailed the better.

    The NAWCC promotes the mantra of sharing knowledge. That is why I have tried to publish in the Journal. For me, for now, the net is better and my recent encounter with the editor relieves me of any residual sense of obligation to them. This was not my first bad experience, but it will be my last.
     
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  28. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    If one of the missions of the organization is to educate and knowing that the Internet is a huge library of information, why doesn't the organization think about the publishing of Internet based material? Why do important works with respect to horology have to be in written form in the Bulletin before it can be used to educate others? The World is rapidly changing.

    Another item with respect to change, why doesn't the organization open the Mart to non-organization members so they can take advantage of the advertising sections? If I were an advertiser of my services I would want the largest distribution possible. Most of the members already know what services I offer.
     
  29. Clint Geller

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    #29 Clint Geller, Jul 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    I am very sorry to hear of your experiences, Jon. We can't afford to lose the talents of such knowledgeable persons as you. I have worked with three or four NAWCC BULLETIN editors and published fifteen articles and two books with them over the years and never had a major problem with any of them. I had to cut my most recent article down a little bit, and get a few permissions to use images in writing (or actually, electrons), but that was it. I haven't made the acquaintance of the new editor yet, but that is on my to do list. Two things I do are first to call the editor to discuss what I am up to before I submit something, and when I do submit, I recommend reviewers to the editor along with the submittal. I like to get the most competent, qualified eyes on my work before it is published as I can, in order to catch as many knits and mistakes in that stage as possible, and I ascertain the willingness of the reviewers to serve before I recommend them.

    I have reviewed several articles for various of the editors and I never encountered one that was so irredeemably lousy that I had to recommend not to consider publishing it. When I found issues or inadequacies in a submittal, I suggested solutions along with words of encouragement. In most cases, I gave the editor permission to share my name with the author. One author thanked me in his article for finding a math error (he took a derivative wrong) and saving him embarrassment.
     
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  30. Dr. Jon

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    I have enjoyed Clint's articles and admire the ability to push through.

    I have found most of the other recent articles very shallow and often lacking detail I was seeking or very long on subjects of slight interest.

    After being required to shorten an article I was surprised to see almost an entire issue devoted to history of etchings of buildings used in clock tablets.

    A recent article on tariffs covered watches but did not address the issue of adjustment, a major element in imported watches.

    It is inconsistent at best.

    I am coming to view that we need to replace the editor with an editorial board who will set policy review article suggestions and set deadlines. The staff would be copy editors. I doubt we have the funds and stability to get and keep good editor and I doubt any single person understand the needs of the organization in its publication.
     
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  31. Clint Geller

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    Thank you for your kind words, Jon. We had an NAWCC Publications Committee once, but I don't know whether it still exists or if does, how it actually functions. I fully agree that, especially if the editor does not happen to be a horological context expert (and in my experience, the editor never has been a horological expert), the editor should have help from a publications committee or an editorial board. I would agree to serve if I were asked.
     
  32. sprio

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    The Publications Committee no longer appears on the new web site, or is it mentioned in either the ByLaws or Standing Rules. The Standing Rules, however, in Article V, Section 3(f), indicate that the role of the Research Committee is "to encourage, facilitate, and monitor historical research, by members and others, into the art, science, and technology of timekeeping, and the people and manufacturers involved. The committee shall promote the systematic recording and publication of findings and conclusions in the official NAWCC publication and other publications, both by direct submission of information, and by encouragement of individuals to submit material, to the Publications staff."

    I guess that would be a place to start; but the Research Committee does not appear on the new web page, either. I checked the most recent Bulletin on the inside of the back cover, and no mention of its existence, either. Does that mean it has been disbanded? Looks like another instance of disregard for the Standing Rules. Perhaps the Board can delete that section at their next meeting.

    It can only be assumed, then, that the Association's dedication to the publication of scholarly articles has ended. One more nail in the coffin.
     
  33. Steven Thornberry

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    There is a Publications Advisory and Review Board. I wonder what that group does.
     
  34. FDelGreco

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    The May / June issue of the printed Bulletin (I haven't yet gotten my July / August issue) shows on the inside back cover that the "Publications Advisory and Review Board," of which I am a member, still exists, although I haven't been given anything to review in a long time.

    Not to drift off the specific subject, but what bugs me the most about the Bulletin is this: We have a whole thread in the members-only area where our international members are deciding whether or not they should renew their memberships because they don't receive enough benefits. International members get only the digital Bulletin and anything else they can get off the website. So what did HQ do? They downsized the Bulletin! That certainly won't help our international members renew. Perhaps we need a full-sized Bulletin in digital form, and a skinnier Bulletin in print.

    Frank
     
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  35. Clint Geller

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    I used to serve on the Research Committee back when Snowden Taylor ran it many years ago. I'm not sure what it does now, but at the time I served on it, it exercised no oversight over the Bulletin.
     
  36. Tom McIntyre

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    The Publications Advisory Committee was the focus of how the Publications could best meet the mission goals of the organization. As I recall very few who were involved cared about any strategic inputs. At some point in time if was apparently decided that the Director of Publications could handle that job in consultation with the Board and under the supervision of the E.D.

    The Library Committee and the Museum Committee now have a specification of Collections implying that they do not concern themselves with the impact on other aspects such as strategy or interpretation.

    We once had an Internet Advisory Committee charged with similar duties regarding our web presence and its development. It turned out that a room full of opinions did not help much in deciding what to do and how to present ourselves. Perhaps the experience there led to the tapering off of the other similar efforts.

    I do not see an Awards Committee or an Education Committee either. Does the Field Suitcase Workshop still exist and does its committee?

    The fundamental problem is likely the difficulty of getting anyone to define and pursue the work of all those committees. If they are just middle management done by volunteers the committee structures are probably superfluous. However, we might want to create an organizational chart and put at least one person in charge of trying to keep it up to date.

    upload_2020-7-30_17-22-48.png
     
  37. sprio

    sprio Registered User
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    But if you read the Bylaws, the Museum Collections Committee shall be responsible for collections management, acquisitions, collections development, accession/deaccession of articles, and other matters pertinent to the collections of the Museum.

    That would include strategy and interpretation. The Museum's governing documents, however, are at least five years out of date, with the exception of the Collections Management Policy, which was updated in 2019. There does not appear to be any push to update the Collection Plan or Strategic Plan, which were last revisited in 2009.

    Of course, having a Museum Director would help.
     
  38. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I serve on the Collections Committee. That committee needs to approve all accession and deaccession decisions made by the museum. I understand that it is pretty much a legal requirement to have such a committee. Or at very least, if it is not, it is certainly best practice to have such a group. I have argued, with singularly little success, that the committee should also endeavor to assume a larger role for reorganizing the current exhibits at the museum to tell a more compelling story, and also to help plan and execute new temporary exhibits. That would be the "strategy and interpretation" portion of the committee's charge as stated in the bylaws. (Besides, how can you intelligently decide what items to add and which to keep without an exhibit plan?) The goal I sought was to enhance the museum's value for recruiting the next generation of horologists, and to make it a more effective tool for NAWCC member engagement. (This has always been a surprisingly contentious point. There are many, including, it seems, some on the Collection Committee, who feel that NAWCC membership engagement is utterly superfluous to the museum. I consider that attitude potentially deadly to both institutions.) I have also advocated dragging the museum into at least the 20th century, if not exactly the 21st, by introducing electronic enhancements to the museum's exhibits. I intended my own temporary exhibit of Civil War Timepieces, which ran from last July to the end of last January, as a model to be copied and/or expanded upon. That exhibit had a 24" touchscreen in the exhibit space running a set of thirty linked, viewer-controlled, narrated slide presentations. There was also 9 hours of varied theme music playing continuously in shuffle mode in the background. I had visions of dispensing with the screen, and linking our permanent exhibits directly to a cell phone ap. Given insufficient buy-in from the Collections Committee, I began organizing a separate ad hoc group, with some executive board support and participation and the support of the curator, to begin redesigning the permanent watch exhibits. A few things then happened. First, there was an enormous turnover in museum staff, including the national director and two curators in quick succession. At that point, I had basically decided to wait until the new national director comes on board before proceeding. We had also discovered how little information there was about the current holdings of the museum. Many items were not catalogued, and most that were had no pictures available. Moreover, many of the descriptions also seem to have been written by people who did not adequately understand the important points of what they were describing. I realized then that task 1 was going to have to be getting a better handle on the current inventory. Then, of course, the pandemic hit, and it shows no signs of letting up any time soon. If you look up "high risk for COVID-19 complications," there ought to be a picture of me. So I will not be venturing much outside of Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future.
     
  39. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    It might not be my place to make comments as I have been a member two different times and left a few years ago. I have been in leadership organizations of varied sizes and have experienced the good, the bad and the very ugly. First of all the focus of this discussion should not be on the Editor who is attempting to deal with the environment that they are living in. He/She is doing the best job with the materials and support available. It should be on focused on a discussion of what is the model that the NAWCC is attempting to employ. At this time I see no Director, nor do I see a description of a recruiting effort to obtain one. The Museum Director appears to be temporary, a member of the BOD. Everyone is working from home...

    Due To COVID, think about the issue that the museum might not open ever, or at least, in the next few years. If that is so, how would you take advantage of the internet to deliver horological material to the World. I agree that the Museum collections material that is on-line is inadequate.

    Why isn't the Mart focused, not on what is going on within the individual chapters which is nice to read; yet, is no value to the outside world? Why aren't the advertisers not able to use this medium to provide their services to those not in the NAWCC?

    Why is it that this Message Board will not support a buy/sell effort; yet, one can go on Facebook and find a NAWCC Buy/Sell board?

    There are many more questions that the membership of this organization should be asking as the NAWCC is living with a model that is not working at this time. Perhaps you, as a member, can see things that I cannot.

    Etc.

    I fully expect that this message will be deleted...so be it. My apologies to those members who are attempting to make a difference.

    Take advantage of the Internet as we know it today!
     
  40. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The statement I have seen with regard to the Executive Director is that an offer was made and accepted but that current contract commitments required the name not be disclosed until the hire date.

    I have not met Laura Turner, the new Director of Publications but I have heard some discussions of future directions for the NAWCC that include a possible redesign of our publishing venues.

    We may all have a lot more time on or hands with the pandemic, but I hope we can get to some perspective on the speed of organizational navigation. It takes a long time to make a course change and a great deal of effort to determine the best course. I am pretty optimistic at this time that we will emerge from our current trials intact and improved.
     
  41. sprio

    sprio Registered User
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    #41 sprio, Jul 31, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
    Didn't realize this existed. Is this site officially sponsored by the NAWCC? If not, do they have permission to use the NAWCC name and images?
    What items are bought and sold - does the Association utilize it to sell merchandise? If so, why is it a closed group? Does the Museum utilize it to sell deaccessioned objects from the collections?
     
  42. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    It shouldn't take a long time to make the change. A captain of a ship doesn't ask the 400+ crew members if they should make a course change. He/She asks advice from a few and makes a decision. Course changes can be corrected, but at lease the captain makes a decision.

    If you to try to please all of the people all of the time then change will never occur.
     
    Jim Haney likes this.

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