? Was this pocket watch made by the Tremont watch co (low serial number 1046)

[joetime]

I am a small time collector of old key winds watches only and i pick this about 4 month ago the name on the watch is EXCELSIOR WATCH ,BOSTON ,Serial number is (1046) the case is Fahys coin No1 with one star,balance wheel is steel,7 jewels,plain dial.just looking for some expert opinions about this watch,i have compare this watch to the one in the national museum of American history (on time)and movement looks identical to me.PS I did get permission from the seller to use the photographs that i am posting.

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Looks like a Tremont to me as well.

Some Tremont material ended up in the UK and was finished there under a name I can't remember (there is an old Bulletin article on this somewhere), but the low s/n on yours suggests that it was a US made private label Tremont.

 

[pmwas]

I've seen some Tremont Excelsior watches. I wonder if Excelsior watch wasn't simply Tremont's lower grade...

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

I've seen some Tremont Excelsior watches. I wonder if Excelsior watch wasn't simply Tremont's lower grade...

Makes sense. Another Tremont grade was their Melrose.

 

[Fred Hansen]

Congrats on the nice pick up for your collection, its definitely a Tremont and a nice scarce marking. I've heard a Tremont with the serial #1 exists, but the regular sequence of Tremont serial numbers begins with #1001 which makes yours a very low number.

In your photos there appears to be a stray casescrew mark on the lip of the case to the left of the Tremont position, if this is correct the case has held another movement at some time.

I'm not sure the significance of the "Excelsior Watch" marking on your watch, whether its a factory grade designation or whether a private label for someone. The "Excelsior" name in general was used on a diverse range of watches over a long period of time, including ...

- early model 1857 Walthams from the late 1850's marked Excelsior, New York
- various model Walthams from the mid-1870's to early 1880's marked Excelsior, Howard & Co., New York
- Illinois Watch Co. movements from the early 1880's marked Excelsior
- Illinois Watch Co. movements from the mid to late 1880's marked Excelsior, Standard Watch Co., Pittsburgh PA
- Swiss fakes from the 19th century marked Excelsior Watch Co.
- New York Standard watches marked Excelsior

 

[Kent]

"Excelsior" ("ever upward") happens to be the New York state motto.

 

[joetime]

Thanks for the information about the Tremont Watch company it,s pretty cool thinking that this watch might be number 46 off the assembly line thanks Joetime.

 

[Peixian]

i just saw this series watch,could you tell me when it was created?

 

[joetime]

Tremont Watch Co. was from 1864-1866 this is a very early scarce Tremont pocket watch that the experts i contacted agree that was put out as private label in 1865 as a collector it always pays off to keep your eyes open then collecting i almost missed this one.

 

[Keith R...]

joetime, love that case and nice snag. Here is their Melrose grade. I had it cased.

Keith

 

[Tom McIntyre]

When the investors folded up Tremont, Dennison was charged with disposing of the material. After a year of trying to find someone to take over the business, he ended up in Birmingham with the tooling and quite a bit of unfinished inventory. He was involved with the Anglo-American Watch Co. which barely got into business but did not take him as a partner/stockholder. Instead he appears to have sold the material to Anglo American which became the English Watch Co. and he used the proceeds to set up the Dennison Watch Case Co.

Traces of the Tremont influence can be seen in English Watch Co. watches up to the 1890's after the English Watch Co. had ceased to file annual reports. Here is the presentation I prepared on the topic.
[pdf]http://mcintyre.com/present/DennisonOrphans.pdf[/pdf]
http://mcintyre.com/present/DennisonOrphans.pdf

 

[Keith R...]

Tom, if I'm not mistaken, my friend Jerry Bryant has a Tremont cased by the Anglo
American Watch Company. I think you were in the thread. I'll speak with Jerry,
perhaps we can get him to re-post the watch. I'm pretty sure Jerry owns at least 5
original running and serviced Tremont's.

Keith

 

[Keith R...]

Now it could have been a Tremont in an English case, (it was one or the other) but case and
movement were original to each other.

Keith

 

[Tom McIntyre]

There are quite a few Tremonts in English cases. They appear in both the full plate and 3/4 plate variety. To have been made by Anglo American they need to have an 1872-74 hallmark in addition to being demonstrably original and correct. There may only be one or two of those. However, the tenuous attribution keeps them from having the value they might otherwise have.

In the presentation above the Sainsbury private label or personal example is one that David Penney and I believe is a product of Anglo-American.

 

[Keith R...]

Thanks Tom, for the great info. I believe Jerry's watch was a Tremont from about 1865, that
wound up in an English hallmarked case. I believe his was 3/4 plate.

Keith

 

[Jeff Hess]

any relation??

http://scripophily.net/exwaconewyo1.html

 

[Keith R...]

I kind of like keeping archive date together for future collectors, I have but one
Melrose and one Tremont. The Melrose is shown in this thread, and here is my
Tremont from 1865. This should allow plate and dial comparisons for those seeking
info. The 15J Tremont shown, 8xxx is 1865.

Keith

 

[Tom Huber]

Hi Keith, My Tremont is #8132. The plate design and dial are identical to yours.

Tom

 

[Keith R...]

Thanks Tom, I think mine is #8399. Now there were Tremont's I believe, that fell into the English
hands via Dennison, not to far from our serial numbers, before or after the Melrose move. Thanks
for your feedback Tom.


PS, read Tom M's. post #11 with his presentation on UK & Tremont watches this thread.


Keith

 

[joetime]

Recently picked up this RARE 3/4 Tremont marked Washington .St serial number 40,149 15j 18sizes key wind with this find I now have a small collection from the beginning to the end this took me 7 years of looking had a blast looking for them.looking forward to the Webinar on Dennison's orphans on June 10 MY question would be I was wondering how many 3/4 were marked with Washington.St

 

[pmwas]

Nice find - congratulations !

 

[Keith R...]

Interesting, Tremont sn# to 1 to 11,000, Melrose grade begins sn# 30,000.

Nice 3/4 plate sir!!

So do we have a new entry for the Tremont records via post #20?
Like a 3/4 plate Melrose grade.

Keith R...

 

[joetime]

Nice find - congratulations !

Many thanks Joetime

 

[joetime]

The actual markings on the 3/4 movement is Tremont Watch Co.Washington St., Boston just for clarification.

 

[Keith R...]

joetime, that's why I posted my full plates and tied them to the serial numbers established
of record.

Please see page 397 or so of the PG, bottom of page for the photo of an English style
movement under Tremont Watch Co.

The other possibility is the sale to the English, which became the Anglo American Watch
Co. Note, my old Price Guide is year 2004. You will find this under Melrose Watch Co. page
318 of the PG.

Either way I find fascinating. There was not enough plate detail in your photo to tell.
I wonder what Tom M. thinks?

Keith R...

 

[geo.ulrich]

Joe I sent you a p.m.

 

[Keith R...]

joetime, I have a match to your dial on my Tremont #8399. The 3/4 plate movement appears to
be on the money. So with it being marked Washington Street on the movement and your serial
number at #40149, I would most definitely call it Rare in my book.

Hopefully Tom McIntyre will take a peek and provide some feedback. Tom did an excellent presentation
on the Tremont Watch Co. that gives an historical background for the Tremont Watch Co. through
it's sale to the Anglo American Watch Co. of England.

Here's my Tremont "Tremont" dial photo, sn# 8399.

PS.............Please forgive the hairlines, my dial soaking skills are lacking.

Keith R...

 

[Tom McIntyre]

There are two 3/4 plate examples that I have which appear in the Webinar.Both of mine were, I think, finished by the English Watch Co. One is engraved Tremont Boston 40627 and the other is a private label for James Hardy Aberdeen 40694.

40149 appears to be in an American case and, of course has the Washington Street mark.

I have a friend with a couple of Washington St examples in both 3/4 and full plate, but he has not had time to search them out in the past several years. He is only mildly interested in collecting watches now.

I once spent an afternoon driving around Melrose trying to find some evidence of a factory there without success. I have always thought the actual move to Melrose was unlikely since they had already run low on money and none of the investors wanted to put any more into the company. I have never seen any corporate papers for Melrose either, so I treat it as a new, cost reduced, model of the full plate Tremont.

According to Crossman, Tremont bought a 2 story building with some fire damage at the corner of Tremont and Main St. Since Main and Tremont run parallel to one anther, there is no such corner. Crossman is full of small errors and the location could have been Main and Melrose which do cross about a mile north of town center and did in 1876 also.

 

[joetime]

HI Tom here is the only markings on the case which is a crown which my book tells me it is English if am reading it right serial on case 80271

 

[joetime]

Hey Tom you're right American made case found an old thread about Blauer cases and John Wilterding