Waltham Riverside Chronograph

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by dAz57, Sep 7, 2017.

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  1. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    I have this nice Waltham Riverside model 84 chronograph with its original 18K case come in for a service, did Waltham make the chronograph mechanism that was added to the Riverside movement, or was this an outsourced add-on done by a different company?

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. Dave Chaplain

    Dave Chaplain Registered User
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    I believe that's a Hillside grade, not a Riverside. And Waltham provided finished chronographs from the factory, but this example seems to use something other than the usual chronograph mechanism. The Waltham records indicate it was not a chronograph when originally made. So maybe a trial from the factory for an unusual mechanism, or else a 3rd party add-on that made use of available chronograph dial and hands?
     
  3. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    Yeah hillside, my notes are in the workshop, the book just lists this as a standard movement which is why I was curious about the chrono part, I know English makers often had complications added from specialist Swiss houses.
     
  4. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Super Moderator
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    Lots of weird walthams have come out of Australia. Waltham had and agent/office in Adelaide for many years and I watch Aussie auctions for 18k examples of high grade and unusual walthams. Is it possible Dave that this was allowed under license to the agent in Adelaide?

    Jeffrey P. Hess
     
  5. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Unless it was just a watchmaker's braggin' rights modification, I can't see why someone would go through the trouble of using a different chronograph mechanism than other 14s Walthams had. Why not just buy the 14s chronograph from Waltham?

    It does have some interesting stuff going on. It is strange that the upper cock on the center wheel partially obscures the serial number. The chronograph pusher seems to be in a very odd position relative to other 14s images I've seen. The fact that there is a "Patent 1880" engraving, when it seems that the Lugrin's patent on standard 14s chronographs carry an English patent of Sept. 28, 1880 (Taken from image in Shugart.) is interesting as well. Lots of things to investigate on this one. Cool watch. Good luck with your info-quest. Cheers.
     
  6. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    #6 Tom McIntyre, Sep 7, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
    View attachment 355862

    I thought I would throw in a standard Waltham chrono so folks could easily see the difference. Looking down on the watch from the back, the Waltham intermediate wheel is very small and is displaced up and down rather than swinging to make contact with the 4th wheel mechanism and the center seconds wheel.

    The swinging intermediate wheel is fairly common in Swiss watches and seems a bit simpler. Since the Waltham design requires a beveled tooth edge on the 4th wheel extension to ensure engagement while the swinging design uses "ordinary" wheels.

    In looking more closely at the OP watch, the chronograph wheels are all fine tooth similar to the ones used in the Waltham Sweep center Second watches sold almost exclusively in the UK markets. Those watches do not have a return to zero function so are not really considered chronographs.
     
  7. 12V6GT

    12V6GT Registered User
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    Jul 10, 2011
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    Oh thank you for the picture! Much cleaner looking watch. What a beautiful watch!
     
  8. Dave Chaplain

    Dave Chaplain Registered User
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    #8 Dave Chaplain, Sep 7, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's another example of a lower grade Waltham and 2nd common chronograph bridge / mechanism used by Waltham. There may be a replacement part or two on this one. And note, the handwritten records say this one is a "Hillside Grade Chron." but the Gray Book says just "Chron.", and the movement is not marked Hillside ...

    [​IMG]
     
  9. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Dave, compared to the upper grade chronographs, yours has a definite lack of finishing done to it.
     
  10. Dave Chaplain

    Dave Chaplain Registered User
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    Richie, that's true! But the owner of mine thought his looked as good as the owner of Tom's watch did - from the front. And of course he saved a few quid as well ... ;)
     
  11. 12V6GT

    12V6GT Registered User
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    Jul 10, 2011
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    Ha! But who ever looks at the face? I mean the real excitement is looking at the movement right?. LOL! Oh wait, you mean people actually used these things? :)
     
  12. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    just for reference I have these in the junk box, they would have lost their cases quite some time ago and they were just rattling around in a drawer.

    [​IMG]

    the first two are Swiss repeaters, #3 not sure, couple of parts missing but looks like a split second type chrono and #4 is a Waltham like in post #8, anyway all have various chronograph mechanisms, the first two use a swing arm to engage, the next two use the small intermediate wheel that is moved up or down to engage.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  13. 12V6GT

    12V6GT Registered User
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    What a great 'junk' drawer! Thanks for sharing!
     
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